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http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/06/11/getting.around.itunes.drm/

Microsoft considering more direct attack on iTunes

updated 01:45 pm EDT, Sat June 11, 2005

Getting around iTunes DRM

Microsoft is planning to bolster its own online song store with a new subscription service later this year as well as is "considering a , seeking rights from copyright holders to give subscribers a Microsoft-formatted version of any song purchased from iTunes so they can be played on devices other than an iPod.... The ability to download replacement copies of iTunes-purchased song would be aimed at boosting the fortunes of Windows-compatible MP3 player manufacturers such as iRiver and Creative Technologies. Because Apple does not license its FairPlay copy-protection format to other companies, iTunes-purchased songs can be played directly only on the iPod. Sources said that the iTunes replacement plan would require agreements from multiple copyright holders, and may not come to pass, however," according to the News.com report.

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budster101
Baninated

Joined: Dec 2004

0

06/11, 01:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
Subscription Based

Enough Said. It's a losing proposition and Microsoft is just exhibiting more sour grapes. They know full well that Windows Users can download from iTunes and play the music on any player they wish with the least bit of effort.

They are again trying to capitalize on the ignorance of the many...

testudo
Forum Regular

Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/11, 02:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: subscription based

I wouldn't say "ripping to CD, then re-rip back into itunes" the "least bit of effort". That's several minutes of work, easy, per song. It probably takes 20 minutes for an entire album. Then you'll have to make sure it gets tagged correctly and such (which it might not).

Or you could go to MS's web service, say "Hey, I've got Perter Gabriel's "Sledgehammer" from iTunes. Give me a WMA copy" and just get it. Seems easier to me.

And what does this have to do with 'subscriptions"? They'd get another valid copy. Because if they had the subscription, they could just download it again and play it all they want. No big deal. So its actually getting a copy you could burn or what-not. Its yours.

BTW, this isn't going to get approved by the labels. If they OK'd this, someone would do something stupid like say "Hey, since you allow that, then how about letting me download music for Albums I bought?" rather than having to buy them again or rip them from their phonograph (if they even have one), etc. Then someone else will want tracks for his 8-tracks, cassettes, reel-to-reels, EPs, music boxes, etc, etc, etc.

palardyn
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2003

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06/11, 02:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Like this is a surprise ?

MS wants in to this market and will spend copious amounts to get in and make sure it's partners are doing well and therefore they are doing well.

No surprise MS would try to hijack iTunes somehow.

This is a tried and true tctic MS has used over and over and over. Spend more money than anyone else in money losing operations until you are the only one left and have a monopoly.

Apple has to be careful and try and enlist more partners like HP so that they can remain at the top of the heap or risk being overwhelmed by MS deep pockets. Even if all these partners do is resell iPods then this is a start. Licensing the DRM would be the Holy Grail for them as now every MP3 player would have incentive to hook up with iTunes and not some other service liek the ones from RealNetworks, Napster, or MS.

But, if Apple stubbornly waits until the MS cadre has all signed on the dotted line with MS it may only be a matter of time before that group overwhelms Apple and HP and the iPod.

The "takeover" is not something that is going to happen overnight. It will be slow and take years. If the iPods share of the market starts to slip then it's started already.

legacyb4
Mac Elite

Joined: May 2001

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06/11, 02:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Classic move by M$

Now that is a classic move from M$; where you can't win by producing a better product, beat the c*** out of your opponent with blunt instruments.

Simon
Posting Junkie

Joined: Nov 2000

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06/11, 03:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
M$ could do better

They will never get the labels to agree with that deal.

If M$ wants to really win the war, it's simple (with their cash reserves). Allow any iTMS song owner to rent the song as WMA from their store for free. M$ would take over paying the royalties to the labels. They would have more than enough cash to do that. Why aren't they? Probably because they are not so keen on giving Rio and Co. a B******* just to knock Apple. They have other things on their minds, like HTF are we going to finish Longhorn. ;)

Ganesha
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

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06/11, 03:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
Why MS will fail...

1) As many people say, they got to get the labels to agree, which is unlikely. 2) The majority of the players out there (iPods) can't use WMA anyway, so those people aren't customers. 3) The Mac users are locked out as usual, so they aren't either. 4) In effect MS will just draw away customers from other WMA stores. Which may cause the weaker ones to fold. This may bring another round of anti-trust issues, as MS has a 100% monopoly in WMA licensing.

jpellino
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 1999

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06/11, 03:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
A wise man once said...

"There are two ways to be successsful. One, build a better mousetrap. Two, build a mediocre moustrap and market the h*** out of it."

ZinkDifferent
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2005

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06/11, 03:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
(sigh)

palardyn says:

> Licensing the DRM would be the Holy Grail for them as now every > MP3 player would have incentive to hook up with iTunes and not > some other service liek the ones from RealNetworks, Napster, or MS.

Seeing as how Apple makes more money from iPod sales (generated from the iTMS), than from music sold, your 'brilliant' suggestion will quickly result in a possible downturn of iPod sales, which will result in a shuttering of the iTMS -- brilliant, really. Good thing you're not in charge.

Apple's got the situation pretty much sewn up with the iPod - as long as you have iPod-ready cars, iPod compatible adapters, iPod accessories up the ying/yang, and n'iPod' synonymous with 'music player', all the other players in the market are pretty much just 'has beens' catering to an ignorant (or, obstinate - read: "I want my Ogg!") minority.

Apple will continue to dominate that market walkman-like, for many years to come (or, until a truck hits Steve)

ZinkDifferent

macslut
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2004

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06/11, 06:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
A major legal problem

One major legal problem is that it would require additional royalty payments to the artists. Where would this money come from?

Horsepoo!!!
Banned

Joined: Jun 2003

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06/11, 06:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
FairPlay for DX license

Apple should license FairPlay to MS only if MS license DirectX. :D

That would be a winning proposition for both. :D

beeble
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2004

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06/11, 06:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Attack??

Company X seeks to attack iTunes with a subscription service. Hahahahahahahahaha!

Come on, this joke is getting really tired now. It's still kind of funny, but can we move on to something else a little more entertaining like Apple is going to move to Intel. Like that's ever going to happen!

technohedz
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2000

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06/11, 07:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bit later

This is exactly the same type of rumor that was posted about as a scam on macintouch and is listed here : http://www.hymn-project.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=634

Someone nailed it w/ the format shift. If you're saying you can music you bought from one vendor and get another free copy or a 'format shifted' version from another independent service; then where are all the free AAC's for my casettes and lps (at the least). That's not even really 'media' shifting in the physical sense.

It also falls afoul of copyright for ITMS unless it includes no original ITMS content, exclusives (kinda difficult to break that agreement), or even things like published imixes. 'well...we can convert most of your songs...' isn't going to do it. The way they would want to do it is by using a free hack that's floating around, dropping their lawyers into some poor eastern european's bedroom in the middle of the day, and getting all the rights. Then converting ANY ITMS content and pretending it's ok.

Where's the redemption value for all the copies of Windows? Why can't I get a CD for my Albums?

iPods would sell w/o ITMS. They did before, they still would. Just because ITMS is the most successful online store and is not subscription based; does not mean that subscriptions do not work. Apple could add monthly audiobooks of monthly publications and offer subscriptions (as long as they don't have some audible rights problem) and people would probably purchase them. Didn't see a price for podcasts, they're free...first one's free...tell your friends..but if you want the premium ones you gotta pay...not a bad way to get people used to the idea in the first place..it comes from a familiar interface..and unlike M$ getting people used to voluntarily lowering their IQ by looking at a familiar interface; this one isn't offering you a monopolized product (audio magazines), unless such magazine wouldnt' exist w/o Apple.

Longhorn is the real joke in all of this. The Redmond Xerox franchise much be ordering toner by the boatload whenever we get a point update to our operating system.

Say it with me...'windows sucks' ok..that's about it..windows sucks, M$ relies on it for delivery of their viral loads and the non-brainwashed will see that tying any of your assets to windows is a poor decision to begin w/.

Me�vv
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2001

0

06/11, 07:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Who would be interested?

Every person I know that has bought songs from ITMS owns an iPod. I cannot see anyone being interested in filling up their hard drives with WMA-copies of the same songs. Give me a single reason? To play on another form of mp3-player? Instead of the iPod they already own? Give me a break...

eldarkus
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2004

0

06/11, 08:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: palardyn

"BTW, this isn't going to get approved by the labels"

I totally agree. they make money selling 'singles', but do you get any discount when you buy the album afterwards? h*** no! And what the record companies are doing with older music is re-packaging it and re-selling it.

just like in Men in Black when Tommy Lee Jones shows Will Smith the 'mini CD'. Tommy says "this will replace CD's one day. I guess i'll have to buy the White album again." =)

just a poster
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2004

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06/11, 08:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
As an observer

it is far more interesting to watch Microsoft fail than to experience it succeed.

After all, Windows is a market success but otherwise - usability, security, stability - it is a truly terrible thing.

Foe Hammer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2005

0

06/11, 10:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
Meanwhile ...

Microsoft very well may be considering a more direct attack on iTunes. Meanwhile, about a thousand independent virus writers are actively coding direct attacks on Microsoft.

I wonder which product will ship first? And second? And third? And ...

palardyn
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2003

0

06/12, 12:02am | report spam | close Reply |
For ZinkDifferent

Assuming you have the market today and that means you will keep it forever is simply short sighted.

Licensing the DRM to other players whose devices are not as functional or as price competitive, would only reinforce Apple's dominance. Apples devices are not outrageous caompred to other seemingly simiolar devices. Apple would still sell tons of iPods AND make money on the licenses to Rio, etc AND probably sell more music from ITMS than they already do. Hard to believe but there is still 20 - 25 % of the MP3 player market that does not use Apples DRM.

If Apples DRM and store powered 100% of the player market how could they be in a worse position ?

Failure to maintain their leadership by being obstinate or arrogant simply won't work. Ubiquity will.

MS already proved that with Windows, Word, Excel and PowerPoint.

With licenses, if Rio does well Apple will as well since they get DRM licensing which is like printing money since it costs NOTHING to makes licenses.

Apple does not charge obscene premiums for their devices like they did for Macs at one time. Apple can compete on a cost basis in the iPod market and does very well already. With DRM licensing they could do better AND shut MS out if all the potential MS partners are already Apple partners.

palardyn
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2003

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06/12, 12:04am | report spam | close Reply |
For ZinkDifferent

Oh yes ... licensing the DRM does NOT mean shutting the store. It means a Rio or something else could play music purchased at the store. And not a lot more.

So Apple would sell more music, and make money from stuff they currently get no revenue from.

nagromme
Senior User

Joined: Dec 2000

0

06/12, 12:41am | report spam | close Reply |
Go for it :)

Go for it, MS :)

There are SO many people just begging to toss out their iPod and get a different brand music player :) But they can't because they are trapped into the horrible, easy-to-use nightmare that is iTunes!

Give these poor folks a way out! ;)

Catniplover
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2005

0

06/12, 01:07am | report spam | close Reply |
MS bastardizing again

This is just another of so many examples where Microsoft takes it's hefty weight and decides to go where the real pioneers have already blazed a trail. But hey, they are Microsoft, and you can count on a dorky clumsy after thought by-product of original thinking to come projectile vomiting from their innovationless mouths. No doubt it will be as exciting as Breshnev era school rooms in the soviet union.

paulc
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2000

0

06/12, 08:57am | report spam | close Reply |
On the money...

Ah, a "totally makes sense post" to cross license DirectX and FairPlay. Won't happen (you know that at some point, we'll be able to run DirectX ona MacIntel), but it is a really, really good idea.

If subscription is so bogus as so many claim, explain millions of customers for satellite radio? It is going to come for at least a good portion of the market; AND it would be a good way for the fruit to maintain their monopoly.

Foe Hammer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2005

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06/12, 10:37am | report spam | close Reply |
Satellite Radio?

If subscription is so bogus as so many claim, explain millions of customers for satellite radio?

Try this explanation: I don't own/use a computer. I don't want to own/use a computer. I refuse to own/use a computer. I'm too dumb to own/use a computer. But I'd like better music in my car.

msuper69
Mac Elite

Joined: Jan 2000

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06/12, 12:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Satellite Radio?

You've never experience satellite radio, have you?

I have XM and love it. Deep Tracks is one awesome music channel. One of the things I like about it is that I get to listen to a lot of different music that I would not ordinarily buy. I like the random nature of the selections. They have an incredibly large music collection, one that I could never afford. Plus the ability to listen to the same station for 385 miles w/o interruptions (FM loss of signal, AM generally crappy reception, constantly searching for a decent station to listen to) makes me almost look forward to the drive from Columbus to Nashville (and back).

csimmons
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2004

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06/12, 01:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Satellite Radio?

msuper69:

Satellite radio is an even better reason NOT to buy into an online subscription service, IMO.

eddiecatflap
Baninated

Joined: Sep 2002

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06/12, 01:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
m$'s days are numbered

when os-x on intel is native

then the fun really starts !

:)

LordJohnWhorfin
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2002

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06/12, 07:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Satellite radio

Was going absolutely nowhere until Howard Stern signed up.

driven
Addicted to MacNN

Joined: May 2001

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06/12, 08:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Satellite Radio and Stern

Actually Satellite Radio was going nowhere until the auto manufacturers started including it as standard equipment. (Actually Hyundai decided to go with XM instead of Sirius simply BECAUSE Stern was on Sirius!)

climacs
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2001

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06/12, 08:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: sat radio + stern

Was going absolutely nowhere until Howard Stern signed up.

oh bullshit

LouZer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

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06/12, 09:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: sattelite radio

You've never experience satellite radio, have you?

I have XM and love it. Deep Tracks is one awesome music channel. One of the things I like about it is that I get to listen to a lot of different music that I would not ordinarily buy. I like the random nature of the selections. They have an incredibly large music collection, one that I could never afford. Plus the ability to listen to the same station for 385 miles w/o interruptions (FM loss of signal, AM generally crappy reception, constantly searching for a decent station to listen to) makes me almost look forward to the drive from Columbus to Nashville (and back).

Except for the 'live'ness of some of the channels (baseball from anywhere, anyone), the music part is basically just a music subscription service. Especially if they do it right by including large 'professionally' created playlists, as opposed to having to find your own music. You're talking 15 bucks a month, can download all you want, whatever you're in the mood for.

Roehlstation
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

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06/12, 09:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
What really will Happen

All MS will accomplish is to put all of the other small companies out of business.

resuna
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Joined: Jan 2005

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06/13, 01:06am | report spam | close Reply |
What does MS get from it?

People aren't buying iPods because iTMS is great. They're using iTMS because iPods are great. Microsoft doesn't need to enable WMA players to use iTMS, they need to enable iPods to use WMA.

ibugv4
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2003

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06/13, 08:44am | report spam | close Reply |
Satellite Radio

Stellite Radio is, sadly, a fad that will disappear almost as quickly as it began. From what I recall, one of the XM satellites is going to fall out of orbit soon, and they can't quite get another up. Leg up for Sirius -- who I'd never even heard of until recently - I suppose.

Either way, podcasting, LimeWire and iTunes makes XM moot. As the earlier poster said, XM is an alternative for the elite, niche and simplistic.

I'll take my iPod any day, thanks.

ibugv4
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2003

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06/13, 08:45am | report spam | close Reply |
trucks hitting steve

Zink, you know darn good and well that trucks only kill mortals and not the Klingon that Steve is :P

benhur
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2001

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06/13, 12:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
MS is smart

I didn't say they were better than Apple, they lack the innovation, quality, etc. But they're smart marketers. Not that the labels will go for their idea of an WMA copy for every itunes song but can you imagine if they did?

One person wrote that "Every person I know that has bought songs from ITMS owns an iPod. I cannot see anyone being interested in filling up their hard drives with WMA-copies of the same songs. Give me a single reason? To play on another form of mp3-player? Instead of the iPod they already own? "

I wonder how many people bought iPods just to use with the iTunes store. I'm own 4 macs and an iPod but I would consider buying a WMA player if it meant I could use a subscription service and get a copy for every song I've bought at the iTunes music store. I think the current iPods are tired. I'm still waiting for FM cababilities and voice recording, features found on just about every other comparitively priced player out there.

MS is slowly going to take over this market unless Apple makes some changes. Fortunately they could market FairPlay and create a subscription model if they haven't already and be done with it.

I love Apple but I love music just as much and Apple's iTunes may rock but now that the competition is heating up they're in danger of being the least flexible and innovative.

The other market where users are just as passionate as Apple users is with Tivo. I wish the rumors were true about Apple buying Tivo. MS is getting a foothold here as well.

It will all tie together when the XBox 2 comes out this holiday season. A cheap state of the art game machine that will likely do internet, purchase songs from the MSN store and have Tivo like functionality. Sure it's MS but 95% of the public don't seem to care and how many Mac users own an xbox? I know quite a few Apple employees that own an xbox. Of course they're are a lot of MS employees that own an iPod too.

Anyway, I don't see a bright future unless Apple makes some big moves.

resuna
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2005

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06/13, 01:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
iPod is the driver

"I wonder how many people bought iPods just to use with the iTunes store."

Not many. There's, what, 3 other stores and a huge variety of business models to choose from... and none of the other stores work with the iPod. My wife uses Real and doesn't seem to have any problems with it... she needs my help all the time for Windows problems, and Everquest problems, and printing problems, but never any music problems. So I don't see how iTMS could be the driver... it's nice, but it's not killer technology.

People buy the iPod because it works well, it looks nice, and they know there's a zillion accessories for it.

I mean, if I bought any other MP3 player, and I wanted to buy a clip for it, if I went into Frys or CompUSA or Best Buy and found *one* clip for my player, I'd grab it... because that would be HUGE. But I bought an iPod Shuffle, and I haven't bought that clip because there's a couple of others coming and I want to see what they look like in the store first.

That's what Microsoft needs to work on, not making iTMS compatible with the WMA players... making the WMA players compatible with each other so there's an incentive for companies to support them.

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Microsoft considering more direct attack on iTunes

updated 01:45 pm EDT, Sat June 11, 2005

Getting around iTunes DRM

Related Articles

Recent Articles

Subscription Based

Re: subscription based

Like this is a surprise ?

Classic move by M$

M$ could do better

Why MS will fail...

A wise man once said...

(sigh)

A major legal problem

FairPlay for DX license

Attack??

Bit later

Who would be interested?

re: palardyn

As an observer

Meanwhile ...

For ZinkDifferent

For ZinkDifferent

Go for it :)

MS bastardizing again

On the money...

Satellite Radio?

re: Satellite Radio?

re: Satellite Radio?

m$'s days are numbered

Satellite radio

Satellite Radio and Stern

re: sat radio + stern

Re: sattelite radio

What really will Happen

What does MS get from it?

Satellite Radio

trucks hitting steve

MS is smart

iPod is the driver

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