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Recap of WWDC announcements

updated 10:10 am EDT, Tue June 7, 2005

WWDC announcements

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by MacNN Staff

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MarcoM
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2005

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06/07, 10:26am | report spam | close Reply |
its reality!

I was hoping that it was all a dream or something but I guess its the way of the future. So lets buckle up and go on the bumpy ride.

srmoll
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Joined: Sep 2004

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06/07, 10:41am | report spam | close Reply |
Is there a possibility...

that this is just an attempt at publicly kicking IBM in the nuts!? If I was Steve, I think I'd want to. I mean, Steve promised on the strength of IBMs chip roadmap, to have 3GHz PowerMacs on the market ages ago. It didn't happen. They're having to overclock G5s just to get 2.7GHz, meanwhile IBM have sold 3.2GHz PowerPC based chips to who?... Microsoft. I would be seriously p**sed off at this.

Elektrix
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Joined: Sep 2001

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06/07, 10:58am | report spam | close Reply |
3.2 GHZ PPC chips

Note that those 3.2GHz PPC chips were custom chips, and not G5's........... as far as we know IBM still couldn't deliver a 3 GHz G5. They seem to be fine with customized chips, etc.

hayesk
Professional Poster

Joined: Sep 1999

0

06/07, 11:06am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: is there a possibilit

To expand on Elektrix', game CPUs are simple. They don't have to do a lot. Most of the work is in the video card. The game machine's CPU's job is to get pixel data to the video card and to manage things like saving games, loading from the disk, etc. It's easy to clock those up - relatively, they're simple designs.

devmage
Forum Regular

Joined: Jul 2003

0

06/07, 11:26am | report spam | close Reply |
Hope

Hope is all I have Apple lives through this. I am baffled as to why they would go this far and not make OSX available to all x86 PCs. We all know regardless of what they do someone will hack OSX onto one anyways. Why not benefit from it?

budster101
Baninated

Joined: Dec 2004

0

06/07, 11:34am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Hope

The best thing Steve could do is what he did.

1. Kick IBM in the preverbial nuts. 2. Open up the world of OS X to run on Intel, he's been doing it for the past years, so this isn't new, it was planned, probably as a just in case, or even knew this as the limitations were (G5) known long ago in a distant galaxy. 3. Make it so people could run OS X and Windows on a Mac side-by-side and choose for themselves... I'd choose OS X every time and I'm a longtime X PC user. Games would run on a Mac! (PC GAMES) It's a win/win. 4. OS X would not run on a generic PC Box... they can make it so. Hack it up? Sure that would last a couple of weeks until a new update and then wammo. No OS, worky.

:D

jhorvatic
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Joined: Apr 2005

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06/07, 11:40am | report spam | close Reply |
On the right track

I think Steve is on the right track. As for IBM, they didn't come through like they promised. They seem to be able to do so for Microsoft and Sony but not for Apple. So Steve had no choice since IBM wasn't interested in keeping Apple's business. He had to find someone who would like his business. They have a great road map and lots of tools to get it done. With OSX already done it's going to make it a lot easier.

jhorvatic
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Joined: Apr 2005

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06/07, 11:47am | report spam | close Reply |
This will NOT hurt Apple

As for all who think this will hurt Apple and it's loyal followers go. I don't think so. It's not about the processor it's about the OS and the way Apple makes it fun,easy, and secure to use a personal computer. If Intel can make Macs work faster and cooler and get the processors out on time then this can only help Apple even more. Now it will be about OS VS.OS and not about processor/OS VS. processor/OS. My bet of course is on Apple.

Scooterboy
Senior User

Joined: Nov 2001

0

06/07, 11:49am | report spam | close Reply |
News Flash

News Flash! Microsoft to debut MS brand PC's running 3.5 GHz Quad IBM G5's!

Scooterboy
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Joined: Nov 2001

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06/07, 11:58am | report spam | close Reply |
Seriously

I'd welcome dual booting Macs so I can play any PC game in Windows, and use Windows superior DVD players and Hi Def sound cards. But then there will be less incentive for software companies to support 2 OS's when almost all the PC's (including Macs) can and probably will run Windows. Can't find that OS X app, or having trouble with the Mac version? Just boot into Windows and run the PC version. Looks like Aspyr is out of the porting business.

dave a
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06/07, 01:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
One more thing...

... most programmers apparently never made use of the key G4/G5 advantages anyway - things like Altivec... and while the G5 and G4 keep getting hotter, Pentiums and Athlons are getting cooler.

yes, I have to applaud the move, though I wish he had done it back when OS X was brought out and gotten it over with; I wish Rosetta also worked with G4 code; obviously there will be no Altivec registers on the new machines; and I will miss those Classic apps I still sometimes use.

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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06/07, 01:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Intel? WTF?

What the h*** is this whole "Macs on Intel" thing? When did this happen? How could I be out of the loop? No one called me!

paulc
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2000

0

06/07, 01:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Roadmap??

Jobs said only one very small "why" to the move... that Intel has a better roadmap. Of course, we can find tons of supposed Mac fans parroting that.

Uh, what "roadmap?" From the PPC perspective, let's see what we know (i.e. what we read about)... we got multi-core chips. We got the GX series, supposed to run much cooler. We've got the possibility of derivatives from Power 5 and Power 6 chips. We've got a decade of Apple's white papers about how far superior this "platform" really, really is.

Now for the Intel side... we have X86/32 bit chips, we have dual core (which it seems they have to do because AND already did it) at some future point. What else? Far as I can tell, nothing, nada, zilch. Their 64 bit technology (Itanium) seems to be in more of a disarray than anything IBM is doing.

The FACTS we have are that PPC development is a lot slower than Jobs seems to want. But is it hurting sales? According to Jobs himself, Macs are flying off the shelves, 3 times greater growth rates than all the wintels.

slipperfrog
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06/07, 02:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Hope

"Hope is all I have Apple lives through this. I am baffled as to why they would go this far and not make OSX available to all x86 PCs. We all know regardless of what they do someone will hack OSX onto one anyways. Why not benefit from it?"

Of course Apple will live through this. What kind of talk is this? Did you whinge about the move to PPC as well? Apple has been through major changes before and come out just fine. This transition will be smoother than the transition from 68000 to PPC.

Now as to why Apple won't allow MacOS X to run on any old PC. Well, why would they? It's not as if Apple is going to be using standard PC MoBos here. Their systems will have custom-built motherboards and will probably continue to use Open Firmware (I cannot see Apple switching to a BIOS like PCs use-there is NO technical advantage to doing so and in fact it would be a serious step backward) and other custom chips.

Don't look for "clones" anytime soon, at least not official ones. It's likely that some enterprising hackers will be able to trick the system into booting on plain vanilla PCs, though how well it will work is anyone's guess.

dave a
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06/07, 03:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
Road map

They aren't going to use Open Firmware (based on their own docs).

Intel's road map includes a hot new dual-processor notebook CPU that can independently shut down either core when not in use, and has many other power saving features.

In fact, intel's upcoming chips are generally cooler and less power-hungry under routine demands than the G5s are.

The big question when you look at road maps is what did IBM have planned? Perhaps nothing...perhaps two years from now, going to 3 GHz. Perhaps jettisoning Altivec which would require almost as much work as Intel.

I have to go with Apple on this one, though I think doing it with the OS X 10.0 migiht have been easier...!

hayesk
Professional Poster

Joined: Sep 1999

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06/07, 04:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Road Map

What docs say they aren't going to use Open Firmware? I'd be curious to read that doc. I really don't think they'd use a standard PC BIOS.

Regardless, no, 10.0 wouldn't have been easier. They needed MacOS Classic to get through the transition. People talked about switching to Intel back then, and it was decided to be a bad idea based on that.

LordJohnWhorfin
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Joined: Aug 2002

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06/07, 04:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Microsoft killed the G5

With IBM busy scaling up production of their chips for Microsoft and Sony's next generation game consoles, no wonder they had no time for Apple, which is orders of magnitude smaller as a customer. They had become the annoying customer that wouldn't go away, and they no longer had the luxury to pit IBM against Freescale: essentially, no leverage. Steve had to pull the trigger and he did. Now Apple is at least in a position where they can go to AMD if Intel doesn't deliver fast enough; and they will also have a proven transition track record with OSX that will help them adopt any newer, faster processor technology should one come around.

Dakota Kid
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06/07, 05:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Hope

"Hope is all I have Apple lives through this. I am baffled as to why they would go this far and not make OSX available to all x86 PCs. We all know regardless of what they do someone will hack OSX onto one anyways. Why not benefit from it?"

Remember that one reason that "things just work" on the Mac is that Apple has control over hardware and the OS. Now imagine letting the Mac OS loose on the generic x86 marketplace. There's no way Apple can guarantee support for all the existing combinations of x86 hardware out there. It would be a mess that would tarnish the reputation of the Mac OS.

Almost certainly, enterprising souls will find a way to hack the Mac OS onto their x86 boxes. That's fine. They are not average users, though. They should not expect Apple to solve any compatability problems that might emerge.

Down the road, it seems quite possible that Apple could once again allow clones to be produced, probably using some set of components that Apple will promise to support. Given what happened the last time, however, I would expect that Apple would do this only when the margins on selling an OS license to another manufacturer are approximately equal to their margins on selling a machine. Imagine a model more like the HP-branded iPods (except that the manufacturing would not be undertaken by Apple), where the cost of the license is such that Apple cannot be massively undercut on price.

slipperfrog
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Joined: Nov 2002

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06/07, 07:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Road Map

You are correct about Apple not using OF. At the time I posted that I had read something which lead me to believe they were going to use it. Clearly I was mistaken. 8^)

I am deeply optimistic about this move and will be in line to buy one of the the first MacIntel systems. If it's a dual-core laptop, so much the better! 8^)

zoetrope
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2004

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06/07, 08:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
It was about the CPU & HW

But not now. To I think the majority of Apple's users, it was about Mac OS. But Steve Jobs made it about the processor. And now he's backtracking on that mission.

Think I'm wrong, listen to his last sentence at yesterday's keynote. Its a peek into the future of Apple.

dave a
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Joined: Jan 2002

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06/07, 09:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
yup

I also look forward to a dual-core iBook - largely I'm waiting for the price to go down on current models though!

Also > once again, 1) Not using Open Firmware doesn't mean using a standard BIOS 2) OS X will NOT run on standard machines, nor will Windows run on Macs, without hacking. And as someone pointed out... most people won't take that route, becuase it'll be a PITA with every new change in the OS.

jumbojet
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Joined: Aug 2002

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06/08, 12:21am | report spam | close Reply |
Roadmaps

Jobs said only one very small "why" to the move... that Intel has a better roadmap

The PPC roadmap is finished. It's at a dead-end, as far what IBM's willing to engineer for Macs. By default Intel has the better roadmap--it has the ONLY roadmap.

I WAS the One
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Mar 2003

0

06/08, 07:06am | report spam | close Reply |
I'll always be a Fanatic

If Steve think this transition is for the better of the company, and I mean a company that exists because of his believes and not Wozniak's... then I most say "let's go for it!" ... All of this mean, global market domination, we are not going to be the 5% anymore, we are going to be the real competition for PCs and also at the same time we are killing the rumors about Mac arn't better 'cause they not using intel processors. I feel PC users scare right now... I feel Mac developers fullfilling their dreams at last, this will make the Macintosh at the Top, I can feel it, I can....

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