Must be time for the G5 Powerbook, the first urine-cooled computer. Side effect: very few will be stolen or "borrowed".

Powerbooks always started at $1599, nothing new there. Thats for the base 12" model with a combo drive.

Clik on the Books and you see the entry PB is 1499, not 1599.

Z

I'm surprised that they haven't done away- or at least modified physically- the eMac line. CRT is sooo 1995.

Just what I was hoping for (and actually, more). I didn't expect Airport and Bluetooth to be thrown in, so all the add-ons really sweeten the deal. And it couldn't come at a better time - the backlight in my 17" Apple LCD started to fail last night (three blinks of the indicator light). New iMac, here I come. Whee!

Too bad they're still ugly... I'd be more inclined to get a mini and a 20-inch display.

The eMac is really designed for the education market where you need to have a CRT. Things in schools really get beatup. You simply can't imagine what a classroom of 7 year olds can do to a LCD. The CRT is great because they can put their fingers all over it and not damage it. Plus, the all-in-one is a great enclosure.

In the new iMac, can a second monitor be added to extend desktop rather than mirror. Have they enabled that feature?

Who in their right mind now would buy the 1.8GHz PowerMac G5? For $200 less, you can get an iMac (with a screen!) with the same processor and bus speed, more memory, better video, better HD. Is someone going to spend $200 more just to get so much less and the ability to put in a PCI card into their computer? Esp. when for just $500 more you get so MUCH MORE computer. The PMac needs a severe price reduction or much better specs. Then again, we all know its only there so apple can say they have a desktop for $1500.

This is really a good upgrade, hardly anything to complain about.

Well, I could complain that it WOULD be so nice if Apple could actually cut prices, rather than their standard "keep prices where they are, just add options/features". Airport standard is nice, but seriously, my router is on my desk, why the h*** would I need it or want it. Same with bluetooth (no devices, no plans on getting any devices).

From this you can tell that Apple still just doesn't care about selling volume, only about maintaining their "high-rent district" image (that or the fact it just goes to show you Apple has no ability to produce these things en masse). Would it kill apple to keeep the older version, at its previous specs for $999? Remember when $1000 was the goal, people? Now all that's there is the low-end iBook, the eMac, and the iMac mini.

But, besides those lame complaints, yes, its hard to find fault with the updates at all. And this is SOOOO different then those lame-a** pro updates that Apple released last week. Why? Easy. The iMac was released in September, so there was just a small 8 month window until these updates (although I wouldn't touch one until I found out whether they've fixed their capacitor issue that has caused so many problems). And these are strong updates to an 8-month-old system.

The PMac line, however, is going on 2 years old, hasn't seen an internal update since it was released. The last update was 11 months ago (and that was less than stellar from the previous build) and this update was still more of the same. Now, actually, it appears even worse. When you're spending between $2000 to $3000 per machine, you'd expect to get a better update then what the lowly iMac line got! But NOOO. The iMac now gets bluetooth and airport, as well as a modem. This is all optional on the PMac ($130 for all). And when the dual 2.0GHz went low-end, Apple tossed out 4 memory slots and the PCI-X slot (not that its useful for anything).

In fact, the spec gap between the iMac and the PMac is reducing, while the price gap stays the same. Gee, and people were wondering why we were complaining last week, when we should be complaining even more now.

I'd rather have the slots of a powermac than the built in monitor of the imac...with that said the low end powermac really should be a single 2.0ghz, not 1.8...to keep it in comparison with the 2.0ghz iMac of the same price.

still its lame that apple won't fill the lower price tower that it's customer wants, and just lets us suffer.

before I consider an iMac with its horrible looks...did they fix the issue with its incredible slow hard drives? I'd like to know that first...at a minimum I'd want a fast hard drive to be in there, if its going to be a completely closed, non-upgradeable 'prison' for the next few years....

I can't help thinking that the apparent "generosity" of this upgrade to the iMac from Apple has a far more selfish motivation. Namely, that with less RAM and an inferior graphics card, Tiger would blow serious sticky chunks! Effectively, they have been forced to provide a minimum workable specification for the latest Big Cat. If the machines are merely a platform for showing off their OS, what are they, a software company or a hardware company? It's not like you can run this spanky new OS on anything else...yet!

As soon as this new model hits the refurb dept at the Apple Store (or elsewhere) I am sooooo pulling the trigger.

You whiny SOBs can go back to what you do best ... playing solitaire and masturbating. *I'M* going to really enjoy this super-nice new upgrade.

When are these likely to hit stores?

"I'd rather have the slots of a powermac than the built in monitor of the imac"

Well, you'd better since that would be the ONLY reason why one would pick the low-end PM. And you are clearly in the minority; most of the slot's functions can be replaced by an external device to be plugged in when needed.

" As soon as this new model hits the refurb dept at the Apple Store (or elsewhere) I am sooooo pulling the trigger.

You whiny SOBs can go back to what you do best ... playing solitaire and masturbating. *I'M* going to really enjoy this super-nice new upgrade."

Hey, thanks a lot chas_m because all of us really really care about what you think.

And since you are not going to really enjoy this super-nice new upgrade until 8-12 months later when it will refurbed and not be so nice or new, I guess you too will be playing soliatire and masturbating next the whiny SOBs for the next year or so. Enjoy!

Now Apple only need to be able to deliver the mac Mini in sufficient quantities to expand their marketshare. Regarding the Powermac. Working for a large Apple and windows reseller in Europe. I find it preferable to have a small upgrade in stock instead of a big upgrade delevered in 5 or six month. MacOS X 10.4 is ready. Lets upgrade the Power Mac with what we have at the same time. That is fine with me. Yes I would like a Power Mac with dual core processors room fo 4 harddrives and pciexpress but not announced way before they could deliver it

as others have stated they make the PM upgrades look even poorer now. Also, given that the iMacs & eMacs are sharing the same (out of date) graphics chip-set as their bigger brother, I think I've hit upon the reason why;

An ATi exec found someone gullible enough to buy those cheap 9600 chip sets that having been sitting out back in a couple of skips for the past 12 months... Apparently, the ATi CEO was rumoured to have said (in a recent board meeting) that he would give a special reward to whichever exec could offload them all. Said exec is now enjoying a promotion (with a 10% raise) and free use of the company jet.

Man, I wouldn't like to be the Apple exec who authorised those purchases when the PM figures are in next quarter...:)

Hey guys.. I think you all have to realise that there is more to performance than just the clock speed of the cpu.... an iMac at 2.0 GHz is still not the same as a Power Mac at 2.0 GHz... look at the whole package ie: all the architecture! The Power Mac (even a single 1.8) has better optimised bandwidth and throughput than an iMac at the same clock. The Power Mac has gig ethernet, three open slots and 4 DIMM slots vs 100 Mbit, and 2 slots. We all know that clock speed is only one number - even when it is in Apple's own family of machines... The Power Mac G5 single CPU still has a niche to fill in the marketplace. The iMac G5 hits the sweet spot very well and this upgrade makes it even more attractive... especially with Tiger's increased demands (and nice new features)

As for the "incredibly slow drives", go take a good look at the tech specs.. the new 160 drive in the iMac is 7200 rpm.. but remember that is just one number... and for most people (or at least many) the iMac is not a prison.

The new iMacs now have built-in gig ethernet. Just thought you'd want to know, medelegant. :-)

Hey guys.. I think you all have to realise that there is more to performance than just the clock speed of the cpu.... an iMac at 2.0 GHz is still not the same as a Power Mac at 2.0 GHz... look at the whole package ie: all the architecture! The Power Mac (even a single 1.8) has better optimised bandwidth and throughput than an iMac at the same clock. Not on the single 1.8. Its got the same bus speed (600MHz) as the iMac 1.8 (less than the imac 2.0!).

The Power Mac has gig ethernet, three open slots and 4 DIMM slots vs 100 Mbit, and 2 slots.

Sorry, iMac now has gig ethernet as well. And the iMac has 512mb vs 256MB RAM, 160GB vs 80GB HD, modem, airport, bluetooth built-in. The "plus" side of the 1.8GHz PMac is certainly less compared to the "plus" side of the same thing in an iMac.

We all know that clock speed is only one number - even when it is in Apple's own family of machines... The Power Mac G5 single CPU still has a niche to fill in the marketplace.

There's only one niche it fills. The "Apple offers a $1500 desktop" marketing niche. No one would or even should buy it. It offers barely any advantage of the iMac (more memory, slots), but lacking much what the new iMac now gives you. The only person buying the 1.8GHz PMac are those who, for some reason, are desparate to have more than 2GB memory, PCI slots, an upgradable video card, and their own monitor, but just can't squeeze out the extra $500 for the "real" low-end member, the dual 2.0GHz, which, for the extra $500 is well worth the money. To me, anyone who gets the 1.8GHz PMac is going to feel cheated and irritated within 90 days, thinking what they could've gotten if they just spent less or more.

The iMac G5 hits the sweet spot very well and this upgrade makes it even more attractive... especially with Tiger's increased demands (and nice new features)

This was a surprise when I glanced on the Apple page. I didn't even know the eMac or iMac had been updated. I think Apple has done much better with this new update of the iMac's than it has in the past with the G3 and G4 incremental upgrades. I like the low end model to keep up with the high end model in some aspect. The only difference I see is processor, bus speed, and optical drive. Mac users might have been miffed if Apple kept the low end at 64mb VRAM, 25g DDR RAM, 1.6 GHZ, and so on. I'm happy Apple keeps their all-in-one line up to date. Now time will tell if the eMac is going G5 next year or the mac mini will have a matching 17 inch monitor designed for it.

Maybe if people would actually work when they are supposed to, rather than spend copious amounts of time complaining, they would be able to afford that PowerMac they want...

They should considering putting DVI instead of just a VGA mirror mode. I think the potential of being able to hook up a second display (non-mirrored, dvd-d capable) to the iMac would bring in a lot of people who want a cheap G5. I suppose the $1499 single 1.8ghz PowerMac G5 is a good value, but at $1299 people get almost the same thing out of an iMac (and the iMac comes with a display!). I mean obviously no upgradability aside from memory. The fact that you can't output to an Apple Cinema Display as a second monitor makes it hard to resist paying $200 more for a PowerMac over an iMac. But you would almost assume that $200 would go towards a better vidoe card. Yet it doesn't anymore as they have the same video cards, and you still don't get a display with it.

Still, the new iMacs look pretty sweet. I like it.

I mean not the same video cards, but the iMac actually comes with a better video card, more memory and a better hard drive. That makes the $200 extra for the PowerMac feel pretty crunchy just to be able to hook up your own display.

That makes the $200 extra for the PowerMac feel pretty crunchy just to be able to hook up your own display.

And that assumes you already have a ADC-DVI or ADC/VGA adapter, or an Apple monitor with ADC port, doesn't it?

Damn, some people just aren't happy unless they have something to mitch and bone 'bout...

$999.00

Estimated Ship: 1-2 business days Free Shipping 17-inch flat CRT display 1.42GHz PowerPC G4 512MB DDR333 SDRAM 160GB Ultra ATA drive 8x SuperDrive (double-layer) ATI Radeon 9600 64MB video memory 56k internal modem

A yr or so ago, these specs were what you'd see in the "Fastest Laptop" on Earth, the PowerBook G4... Was going for around $3000... This eMac (CRT yes, but still) is $999... And the eMac has a dual-layer DVD burner.. and a 160 GB hard drive. It is a desktop after all so you'd expect a better hard drive than the PB.. but come on...

Here are the PB G4 specs:

http://www.apple-history.com/frames/body.php?page=gallery&model=pg4_family

Shrug... Right now, if I were looking for a Mac in this range, the eMac would be looking *very* attractive to me. As it stands, I'm torn between the new 2x2.3 PM G5 and the latest PB.. Long for the added power of the G5, but a long time PowerBook user.. (would keep my PB G4 550 regardless, but still ..) Going to be my major Apple purchase that will have to last 4-5 years. We'll see.

Just ordered the new iMac G5 for my mom today. It will replace her Rev B Bondi Blue 233MHz G3 iMac. The old iMac will prob. be put in an iRack and used as a file server. 7 years old and still humming...

I think the eMac is a great deal for the market it's targeted at. Home users and schools that don't want K-12 students damaging the iMac G5s LCD within hrs of being installed in the lab.

Shrug. Just my $0.02

There's still quibbles with the video board, but this is a much more credible refresh. Granted, wifi and bluetooth should have come standard right off the bat...

Still, I'm not in the market for an iMac, but I'd recommend one to anyone needing a new system.

I hope Apple thinks differently enough to consider putting upgradable video (via mini PCIe, MXM, whatever laptop video format is available) in _all_ its platforms, perhaps when they finally go PCIe..

Someday...

Yeah, but it could easily have been done with the iMac, Apple's signature home computer, not the emac, apple's "hey, look, we have a cheap all-in-one computer".

And who gives a c*** what last year's computer cost and what it costs today. Based on your remark, anyone who bought those laptops last year wasted a boatload of money for something they could've got this year for under a $1000. Oh, wait, the emac doesn't have an LCD, and its not portable, so, I guess comparing specs between a laptop and a cheap-a** desktop is kinda stupid.

Sorry, I don't see this as an upgrade to showcase tiger on the iMac. At 1.6 w/ upgrades of bt, airport, 2gigs mem, and the 80 gig drive tiger is great. It may not be as great as on a dual 2.7 PM, but I don't think very many customers, if any, would be able to notice a difference in the performance of Tiger on a new 1.8 v an old 1.6. Remember, the old graphics card is still core image compatible so it does all the little effects etc. If Apple can sell Mac minis w/ the configs they have there is no way that this is just a tiger showcase. This refresh solves quite a few things

1) Unified midplane with bluetooth reduces the number of variant parts by 1/2 across the board because there will be no midplanes w/o the bt module installed. 2) Inclusion of bluetooth instead of BTO means there is no wait for custom machines w/ internal BT. 3) Other minor refreshes that probably aren't listed have probably been addressed internally (new power supplies and other problem parts). Fans may have been changed to lower the noises people complained about.

So what's missing? For one, and about the only one I'd complain about, is the poor placement of the iSight magnetic mount. That's what everyone will use, but for many people you have to tilt the machine and iSight to get the right picture. This kind of attention to detail is what will show up in a 'new' model.

As to the drive coment. The drives aren't upgradeable. They are replaceable. Anyone upgrading is a candidate for drive failure. The drives in the old models had a low acoustic rating and both S.M.A.R.T thermal and external (on frame thermal) sensors. Blowing air over a drive isn't going to kill it, especially if it is right next to the top vent (as it is). Drive failure in rev a iMacs is most likely due to faulty drives, which may have been upgraded quality wise. Possible new fans (the actual fan part) would also make a difference.

Overall this is a sweet upgrade, but the rev a machines still rock w/ tiger.

I have a 1.6 ghz iMac G5 and I agree it runs Tiger fine. However, it is not quite powerful enough to de HD decoding. For example, playback of a 24-30 fps H.264 720p material, Apple recommends a 1.8 ghz iMac with 64MB of VRAM. My iMac was able to playback 720p but not at full 30 fps.

The new iMacs should handle HD fine.

when I bring my 1.8 GHz 17" bluetooth model with bloated capacitors and a loud fan into the Apple Store this evening they will just say "instead of fixing this, we'll just swap you out for the just-released model" - and hopefully this iteration will not be plagued by faulty power supplies (they should NEVER have been 110v only - unlike every other desktop model they've ever released, they should be adjustable from 100-240v). Hopefully. I will also be armed with a 200 page PDF of messages from others suffering the same problems.