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http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/04/25/tiger.vs..longhorn/

Tiger delivers 'necessary', 'really cool' computing

updated 01:35 am EDT, Mon April 25, 2005

Tiger vs. Longhorn

In a column about the , Newsweek's Steven Levy says that this week's launch of Mac OS X Tiger will finally bring some "necessary and really cool" features to the desktop, while Windows users will have to wait (atleast) until Christmas 2006. "Apple's [OS] is here now, and Jobs sees it as indicative of Apple's agility and drive. 'Microsoft has followed our taillights for a long time,' [Jobs] says. 'Maybe [in the '90s] we stopped innovating for a while, but now they've been copying OS X the same way they copied Mac.'" The article also quotes Windows czar Jim Allchin as saying that the Tiger OS upgrade is "a peripheral to the iPod," and suggest that "some of Apple's ideas (like the Dashboard mini-programs) were inspired by early demos of Longhorn."

by MacNN Staff

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history1me

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04/25, 02:10am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Can we say...

MONKEY BUTT

history1me

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04/25, 02:16am | report spam | close Reply | delete
On Microsoft

I can't wait for Tiger. Just wish it was more advertised by apple to the massive window users... for the sheer pleasure of rubbing it in.

Foe Hammer
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Joined: Feb 2005

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04/25, 02:30am | report spam | close Reply |
Must be a tough job ...

... pointing to things that work and trying to convince the masses not to look at them.

... taking on a better OS than Microsoft will ever have in 30 years and attempting to dismiss it TODAY.

... having to convince thousands of Microsoft employees not to accessorize their iPods with Tiger.

Mr. (take it on the) Allchin has once again resorted to using Microsoft's "Reality Distortion Field" - and, as always, it works just as well as most Microsoft software.

scotty321
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04/25, 03:10am | report spam | close Reply |
hysterical

Hysterical that Microsoft is comparing Tiger to LONGHORN -- an operating system that DOESN'T EVEN EXIST AS OF NOW! LONGHORN IS VAPORWARE, and they have the nerve to compare Tiger to it!

bigpoppa206
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Joined: Jun 2003

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04/25, 03:25am | report spam | close Reply |
well...

I would not say its vaporware as there aew alphas of it around. Still Tiger seems lightyears ahead of where MS is at.

Okonomiyaki
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Joined: Apr 2003

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04/25, 03:36am | report spam | close Reply |
Copied from Longhorn?

This guy is nuts, everybody knows Apple copied the idea for Dashboard from Konfabulator.

Also, watch for a name change to Dashboard in 10.5 following a lawsuit alledging tradmark infringements from Chrysler.

Absolute
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04/25, 04:08am | report spam | close Reply |
I dont think so..

Well I guess some people in this forum seem a bit confused. just to refresh the memory of the new generation mac users, dashboard is originally Apple invetion since, well how back should I go? System 7.0? Yup maybe even earlier from System 1 which was knows as DESK ACCESSORY. So use everyone copied Apple even YES KONFABULATOR..thats why they have no lawsuite against Apple. If anythign Apple should be suing the creators of Konfabulator. Go APPLE SHOW HOW ITS DONE!!!

Absolute
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04/25, 04:11am | report spam | close Reply |
I dont think so..

Well I guess some people in this forum seem a bit confused. just to refresh the memory of the new generation mac users, dashboard is originally Apple invention since, well how back should I go? System 7.0? Yup maybe even earlier from System 1 when dashboard was knows as DESK ACCESSORY. So you see everyone copied Apple even YES KONFABULATOR..thats why they have no lawsuite against Apple. If anything Apple should be suing the creators of Konfabulator. Go APPLE SHOW HOW ITS DONE!!!

ender
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Joined: Mar 1999

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04/25, 05:05am | report spam | close Reply |
10.5

Anybody want to bet that OSX 10.5 will be released before Longhorn?

As as for Longhorn having more "breadth" than Tiger as a way of excussing it's delay, that's only because they've got more c*** they have to clean up from their current offerings.

bobolicious
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Joined: Aug 2002

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04/25, 06:16am | report spam | close Reply |
Xgrid ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Why is no one seeming to make a fuss about this (including Apple!) ? I wasn't even thinking of upgrading until I saw this - this seems HUGE!

Xgrid Take advantage of the power of distributed computing with Xgrid, Apple�s easy-to-use tool that turns a group of Macs into a supercomputer.

eldarkus
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04/25, 07:57am | report spam | close Reply |
to be fair?

To be fair?? get real!! MS is ANYTHING but fair.

lemuel777
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04/25, 09:44am | report spam | close Reply |
If Apple is..

If apple really has copied Longhorn, then what's taking Microsoft so freakin' long to get it out? Goes to show the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing at Microsoft's empire. I think Microsoft is going to trip all over themselves on this one, and we're all be going to laugh. HA HA HA!

Foe Hammer
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04/25, 09:48am | report spam | close Reply |
Another Bet

Anybody want to bet that OSX 10.5 will be released before Longhorn?

Anybody want to bet that OSX 11.5 will be released before Longhorn?

lemuel777
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04/25, 09:51am | report spam | close Reply |
I just thought of this

What appropriate animal names for the competing OSs. Tiger, fast and agile. Longhorn, slow and troddy, waiting to be eaten by...

Person Man
Professional Poster

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04/25, 10:25am | report spam | close Reply |
WTF??

Tiger is a peripheral for iPod? What the heck is he smoking???

rtamesis
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Jan 2000

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04/25, 10:57am | report spam | close Reply |
Kitty cats

There are 36 species of wild cats world wide whose names can be used by Apple for future versions of Mac OS X. These are

African Golden Cat Asian Golden Cat Andean Mtn Cat Bay Cat Black-footed Cat Bobcat Caracal Cheetah Chinese Desert Cat Clouded Leopard Cougar Fishing Cat Flat-headed Cat Geoffrey's Cat Iriomote Cat Jaguar Jaguarundi Jungle Cat Kodkod Leopard Leopard Cat Lion Little Spotted Cat Lynx, Canadian Lynx, Eurasian Lynx, Spanish Margay Marbled Cat Ocelot Pallas Cat Pampas Cat Rusty-Spotted Cat Sand Cat Serval Snow Leopard Tiger Wildcat-African Wildcat-Asiatic Wildcat-European

dennis
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04/25, 11:15am | report spam | close Reply |
re: I don't think so

"when dashboard was knows as DESK ACCESSORY"

Help my memory. What was the name of the widget--oh, I mean desk accessory--that went onto the internet and downloaded weather information or news feeds and displayed them in a little floating window? And what was the key combination that made all the desk accessories appear and disappear from the desktop?

Does this mean it's okay for Creative to make an iPod look-and-feel-alike since they made mp3 players before Apple?

Deal
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

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04/25, 11:25am | report spam | close Reply |
Jeesh!

Everybody knows Apple doesn't copy Microsoft! They copy cool little applications like Watson and Konfabulator.

I mean really, when has Microsoft ever done something cool?

However, Apple should be paying for what they do rip off. They have the money to do so. They paid for stickies rightfully. Why can't they pay for these other little apps?

umijin
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04/25, 11:38am | report spam | close Reply |
Sheep...

Umm, there's nothing really compelling about this upgrade - certainly not worth $140. Dashboard is a rip off of Konfabulator - only cost me about $20.

I suppose if nothing else, it's a good excuse to purchase more memory for your Mac,

Kewl features? Puhleeze... Stability is most important to me, not the 'gee-whiz' factor.

dashiel
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04/25, 11:46am | report spam | close Reply |
re: dennis

don't be pedantic, the internet wasn't even a buzzword back in the days of system7, let alone a daily necessity for millions of people on a day to day basis. take a look at some the desk accessories back then: calculator, stickies, cd player. what are three of the main widgets? calculator, stickes, itunes controller. you should also read the developer notes on desktop accessories -> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/mac/Devices/Devices-16.html where the description of DAs are remarkably similar to dashboard, though with the addition of 15 years of technology, development and of course the internet.

did apple co-opt the design style of konfabulator? after a fashion i suppose, but konfabulator was just an extension of the aqua.

the capabilities of dashboard and spotlight are extensions of old apple technology V-Twin.

AlenShapiro
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04/25, 11:57am | report spam | close Reply |
History anyone?

(sorry for the long post)

First some credentials...

I am a Mac user, have been since the first Mac 128. I develop software that runs on UNIX and PCs. I use only my Mac for this task and have done for the last 20 years (i.e. develop on Mac, deliver on other platforms). I run a Mac club. A mutual-help no-fee club that relies on the "what goes around, comes around" principle. We have about 30 "members".

Now an observation...

MacOS came out well before Windows. What difference does it make now?

History shows that all Microsoft has to do with Longhorn is to not mess up too badly, deliver (say) 60% of the functionality of anything else and produce an OS that does not crash more than once a day and they will still be on 90% of the desktops in 5 years. They have an instant market to sell to and have demonstrated they can use it.

I wish it made a difference how well Tiger performs and how innovative it is. It would make my job a lot easier if I could deliver to the same platform as the reliable one on which I develop. None of my customers (banks) have Mac migration on their horizon. When I suggest it, they laugh. Strangely, on a point by point basis, their response is unfounded.

Another observation...

Microsoft are true masters of FUD.

Apple has to keep chipping away at Microsoft's credibility and continue to build a groundswell of dissent in the diehard Windows-user's ranks. At the same time Apple must deliver hardware that competes with and surpasses anything that the Windows camp has available to it. Not delivering the 3GHz PowerMacs, the G5 PowerBooks, the fastest disk subsystems, the fastest video cards, yesterday, continues to hurt Apple.

Microsoft will produce Longhorn and will educate their users that they do not need stability, security, and easy-to-use facilities. the users will accept that and ignorance will keep them out of Apple's camp. In-house Window's tech support will continue to consolidate their control over the decision makers with the "fear of change" position. Apple must educate Windows users to not accept an OS that gets in their way. The "It Just Works" slogan is Apple's not Microsoft's.

Yet another observation...

Viruses and Spyware have done more to hurt Microsoft than anything Apple has done so far but Apple cannot succeed by growing their base from disenfranchised Windows users.

Tiger is one step along the way. It does not close the book on Microsoft, it actually gives Microsoft direction and they do not have to actually hit their target.

Last observation...

Remember the "Intel cannot possibly continue improving their processors, they run too hot, they're too big, they'll hit the wall and stop" argument. Well, they're still here. When they could not innovate their way out of a problem, they purchased a solution. There's no reason t

AlenShapiro
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04/25, 11:59am | report spam | close Reply |
History anyone? cont...

...cont (from last post)

There's no reason to expect this to change.

Apple cannot wait for Microsoft or Intel to hit a wall and (unfortunately), once delivered, Longhorn will likely work well enough for Microsoft.

Person Man
Professional Poster

Joined: Jun 2001

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04/25, 12:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: History...

What leads you to believe that Apple is waiting for Microsoft or Intel to hit a wall?

Apple will continue to improve their products, just as they have been doing all along.

Yes, the 3GHz comment is biting them in the rear end, but they had no idea the whole industry would hit the wall they did with processor speed.

However, we'll probably be on 10.5 by the time Microsoft ships Longhorn, unless they (Microsoft) continue to cut out planned features.

testudo
Forum Regular

Joined: Aug 2001

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04/25, 01:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: dennis

Oh, please, this whole "Its not stealing from Konfabulator" c*** is just that, c***. Just blowing smoke. Sure, Desk Accessories existed from System 1 through System 6, but these aren't desk accessories. Desk accessories were small programs that could run in the current applications memory/data space because the Mac wasn't a multitasking system. When System 7 came out, DAs were still supported, but they completely changed to be mini-applications (since they could run in their own space). In a sense, they no longer existed, for they were nothing but apps with their own memory space.

Now, in OS X, Apple's got this whole new layer, Dashboard, where they're throwing in a lot of small javascript widgets (not applications), that work completely differently than desk accessories did (the sys 1 through 6 ones), are activated/displayed/hidden completely differently, and generally work completely differently. In fact, the only commonality is that they're for small functions (apps), like calculator, stickies, etc. (BTW, stickies was an app first appearing in system 7.5, and the CD player was no earlier than 7.0 and also an app)

But because they have the same function as before, its somehow, even if you take a deep stretch, an extension of the DAs.

Now, Konfabulator is this layer that runs a bunch of javascript widgets like calculator and stickies and weather and such, allowing you to show/hide them when you want. In fact, comparing the two, the differences are minor, to say the least.

And yet, Apple didn't copy Konfabulator, they just somehow took DAs and completely changed almost everything about them and coincidentally ended up with something that basically mirrors Konfabulator.

I'm sorry, call me cynical ("You're cynical!"), but I can't buy it. When it happened with Watson, you could maybe say "it was the logical progression...", but now its happened again (and there's no logical progression between DAs and Dashboard). Once is coincidence, twice is a trend.

testudo
Forum Regular

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04/25, 01:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: dennis

Oh, and dashboard has nothing to do with Apple's v-twin engine. That's all spotlight.

testudo
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04/25, 01:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Sheep

Umm, there's nothing really compelling about this upgrade - certainly not worth $140. Dashboard is a rip off of Konfabulator - only cost me about $20.

Well, if the only new thing in Tiger was Dashboard, or that's all you were buying it for, then yes, you'd be stupid to buy it. But, just to let you know, its not $140, its $129, and if you get it from Amazon, its $95.

testudo
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04/25, 01:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: history

Apple will continue to improve their products, just as they have been doing all along.

Yes, the 3GHz comment is biting them in the rear end, but they had no idea the whole industry would hit the wall they did with processor speed.

Exactly what hardware products, other than the iPod (and that's a reach) has apple actually improved in the last year? The iMac G5. The mini is a new product, not an improvement (and technically, being of cheap parts from the eMac/iBook, not exactly an improvement in any area but price). The PowerMac G5 hasn't changed (except in minor details - MHz basically, maybe slightly faster DVD drives over the years) in two years. The eMac is what its always been. The iBook finally got the G4 a year+ ago, but its still the same form factor, same video, etc. The Powerbooks haven't been truly updated in a while (hey, maybe they got a new video card recently, and they've added in some more memory by default). But where's the innovation? You once could say they were cutting edge on some things (USB, DVD-R, lose the floppy drive), but they've generally been followers (PCI, AGP, CD-RW, memory, cases, etc). In fact, the biggest joke on apple's computers this year (and last!) is their insistence on using crappy video cards in ALL of their low-end products, and even on the high-end (exactly how can a PowerMac G5 come with the same video as the iMac?) And, except for the high-end ($1500+), you have no choice but to take what comes in the computer. And the current gossip is the next G5 updates WON'T include PCI-Express, where the Intel-PC side went to a year ago. But that's OK, we might get 2.7GHz machines. I'm sure that took a ton of money from Apple's R&D to figure out how to get an extra .2 GHz into a computer.

AlenShapiro
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04/25, 02:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: history

Ok, given that Apple cannot produce competing hardware just yet (but may do over the longer haul) and that Microsoft's weakness is that they cannot produce a reliable Operating System. How's this for an idea to hit Microsoft hard in the user-base.

Port the core functionality of Tiger (including GUI) to Intel hardware complete with a special cut-down Application Suite that, while it would lack the professional applications produced by Apple, would at least provide a stable web experience (Safari, Mail.app (ok.., that last one might take a little work yet), iCal, iChat, iTunes, DVD player) and a stable game environment (did I mention virus-free?).

Educate the users away from the Microsoft (reboot/run-a-bit/reboot/run-a-bit-more/reload-the-OS/run-a-bit...) expectation by providing a platform that is ultra reliable, does what 30+% (my guess) of the PC users need and make a market for them to switch over to a Mac for full functionality.

In other words, do for the whole PC what the Mac-Mini has done for spare computer monitors i.e. got a spare PC... run this on it.

Of course, then we'll have some joker (probably from France (apologies to sane French people everywhere)) suing Apple to release the non cut-down version of Apple's application suite on PC hardware but that's another story.

Do this now... before Longhorn come out and watch Mac sales grow and Longhorn's release become a non event.

spider610
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04/25, 10:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
re-sheep...

TIGER is very compelling because of Core Image, Core Audio, QuickTime 7, Automator, Xgrid, 64-bit computing... these are huge, these are moving forward technologies. These are the new foundation. Every software buid on top of it can do amazing things.

Stability? It's been so damn stable since 10.2...

Saint_Stryfe
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04/26, 12:32am | report spam | close Reply |
testudo...

actually, Apple's "Crappy internal video" is still better then the base Intel video on most of c*** boxes I sell at my store - especially on the base 256 ram most of them have.

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Tiger delivers 'necessary', 'really cool' computing

updated 01:35 am EDT, Mon April 25, 2005

Tiger vs. Longhorn

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