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Apple to leverage Mac mini to enter movie business?

updated 10:25 pm EST, Sun January 23, 2005

Apple to make movie play?

Robert X. Cringely says that the new in latest column about the marketing hype behind the new Mac and its product evolution: "The Mac Mini is one of Apple's trademark technology repackaging jobs. There ought to be nothing inherently exciting about the little box," noting that there are more powerful, more compact, or more less expsensive machines available: "If Apple hopes to emulate its iPod/iTunes success, what does that mean? It means selling hardware devices and proprietary content to play on those devices. The first such hardware device is probably the Mini. And the proprietary content will be video encoded in AVC H.264, which will be supported first in OS X 10.4, promised for the second quarter of this year. So Apple can't announce that it is in the movie distribution business until 10.4 (code-named Tiger) is available.

by MacNN Staff

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DannyMac
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Joined: Aug 2001

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01/23, 10:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ahh..

I thoroughly enjoy Robert Cringely's columns. I respect his opinions and suggestions. His latest column over the Mac mini being used in movie distribution is very logical and gets one thinking of Apple's next move. It's worth the read!

jeepandmacfan
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Joined: Feb 2004

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01/23, 11:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Robert X. Cringely

Not to get the whole MS vs Apple thing going, but Robert X. Cringely has got to be my favorite tech editorialist. Every so often he'll publish an article about how ugly Microsoft's latest move is, and explain how oppressive their motives usually are. I think it's great when he shines a nice bright light on how MS loves to stiffle all of us (that includes PC users) by leveraging their monopoly weight, bank roll, and endless legal fights to keep everything none MS from coming to fruition.

But about the subject at hand, I personally think Cringely is mostly correct about his take on the mini being a step toward the iVideo store, which I don't think will take anyone in "the know" by suprise. What I did find surprising is how Cringely proposes how Apple plans to leverage High Definition. Clearly HD is the future, and Apple is already a leader in HD production, but I didn't put together how 10.4 and the new Quicktime with the H.??? codec will start Apple out in a position others will be struggling to get to. They will be able to get a good foothold by being first to market, and all their proverbial ducks seem to be in a row.

AirRon
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Joined: Jul 2001

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01/23, 11:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
I agree

Imagine if there are a couple hundred thousand of this little boxes out there and Jobs announces a new deal with a couple of studios to download H.264 (+ some kind of DRM) directly to your little computer/TV component? You could put movies right next to music on iTunes. Could it happen?

ronjamin
Baninated

Joined: May 2002

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01/23, 11:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
iPod Photo's Next Step

Ive seen MPEG players at MacWorld that rip-down DVD's to play on iPod-esque players. Why not the iPod. Think of picture phones move to video and you can see where we are going. Add a dongle and you can play on your TV. iTunes next step is archiving dozens if not hundreds of movies all encoded with Apples leading technology. Go Stevo!!!

Eug Wanker
Posting Junkie

Joined: Jun 2003

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01/23, 11:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Barking up the wrong tree

The mini is not very useful for highly compressed HD content appropriate for broadband delivery. The mini is too underpowered for this use. Broadband at this point is too slow for this purpose anyway, so the point is moot.

poulh
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2000

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01/23, 11:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
Broadband is not too slow

Broadband is not too slow. If Apple does this you wouldn't pick a movie and it would start. It would be similar to nextflix where you could have 3 movies at a time. Then, the software would download those in the background and they would pop up when ready. When you are done w/ a movie it begins to download the next one. This wouldn't be instant, but it would be faster than the mail... and that's all it needs to be.

lurkerdude
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01/24, 01:00am | report spam | close Reply |
disagree

If Apple has this kind of capacity, I'd tell them to start encoding iTunes Store music in Apple Lossless and forget this movie downloading business :)

If Cringely's talking about movie buying/burning instead of rental/subscription (that's how I read it), then I don't see it. You have to look at the less-technical alternatives. DVDs are pretty cheap, and I can order a DVD through Amazon (days), or I can buy one at Best Buy (30 minutes) and watch it immediately.

There's only one large market that I can see being interested in buying movies and watching them fairly quickly, without ever leaving the house. iPorn: p*** done right! I don't know if Apple's DVD software does multi-angle though...

LordJohnWhorfin
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01/24, 01:21am | report spam | close Reply |
Ripping DVDs to portables

"Ive seen MPEG players at MacWorld that rip-down DVD's to play on iPod-esque players. Why not the iPod?"

Because it's illegal, thanks to the DMCA. These companies are in business mainly because they're operating below the radar screen and/or they don't have any assets in the US that the MPAA could go after. Just like region free/no macrovision DVD players, this is something you will only get from no-name Chinese makers, not American or Japanese companies.

AllenHuffman
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Joined: Dec 1999

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01/24, 02:42am | report spam | close Reply |
Apple says Mac mini can'

Well, Apple's H.264 FAQ says it takes a dual G5 to play full quality HD using the H.264 codec. BUT, if they crank the quality way down, perhaps they could do this. Would that still be HD? Is HD just resolution?

(If MP3/AAC can be thought of as lower quality CD, then Apple's HD format could be a lower quality HD I guess.)

http://www.apple.com/mpeg4/h264faq.html

MCCFR
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01/24, 05:32am | report spam | close Reply |
Or, alternatively�

You could use H.264 to deliver high-definition, or you could skin the cat another way which is to use H.264's inherent efficiency gains over MPEG-2 to deliver standard definition in half the bandwidth.

As an illustration, a standard Hollywood MPEG-2 DVD might utilise around 4 mbits of the "theoretical" 8 mbits "budget" of the original DVD-V standard. Now, if you take out the additional soundtracks and whatever, you may get that down to 3 mbits - but we'll stay with 4 as that makes the maths easier.

The MPEG-4 Forum alludes that H.264 can deliver equivalent quality to MPEG-2 at around half the bitrate, which means that 4 mbits would now be 2 mbits. Detune the quality a little further (or take out the additional soundtracks) and you may be on course for 1.5 mbits.

Whilst you may not use it in real-time (i.e. streaming), this type of bitrate would allow the average customer to "rent" one movie (in around 100 minutes) and then - whilst viewing the first movie - download another for a double feature or viewing the next evening.

This would suit the studios, who would shy away from having the HD data fly around the Internet, and the Telcos, who - quite frankly - would have difficulty justifying and indeed delivering domestic 8 mbit+ connections.

betasp
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Joined: Sep 2004

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01/24, 09:25am | report spam | close Reply |
HD on MiniMAc

"H.264 delivers 1920x1080 content at about 8 Mbps. This efficiency in H.264 enables delivery to and playback on a wide range of devices, from mobile phones to computers to HDTV and beyond."

At only 8Mb per second, this would play HD content on the MacMini... period. I could see Apple allowing people to rent movies and download them, similar to Netflix.

chrisco
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01/24, 10:23am | report spam | close Reply |
Mini HD Deficiencies

Many HD TV sets would require analog component video for HD, which the Mini doesn't seem to provide. (But Apple is already putting composite video on the G5 and Mini DVI port, so maybe they could also push component video?) Also, that DVI port should need to support HDCP (copy protection) to connect to many TVs. (But maybe Apple could add that in software?)

An even bigger gaping omission is multichannel surround via digital audio out. This would be mandatory regardless of video connection. (Maybe using other unused pins on the DVI? But how to do optical?)

Regarding H.264 and playback: Note that Apple says it "plays beautifully on a dual G5", not that it's required. And they're talking about full-bandwidth 1080p. 1080i is the highest sets can do so far, which is 1/2 the data rate of 1080p to start. Plus cable and satellite HD is compressed and still great looking. The Mac Mini could do 1080i compressed with no problems at all.

Jobs said last year he doesn't want to do personal video devices because it diminishes the experience (tiny screen). This Mini as HD hub and rental seems to fit perfectly with what Steve likes to do and Apple does best.

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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01/24, 10:32am | report spam | close Reply |
Bah!

You people are all "Wow, this would be cool!" without looking at the whole enchilada (or taco or burrito or whatever).

First problem: Slow harddrive and low capacity of the mini's hard drive.

Second problem: No HD output option for the mini. Sure, you might be able to display it to your monitor, but everyone's all "This is for the center of my entertainment center", but the center of my entertainment center isn't a 20" monitor.

Third problem. No output except for standard, boring stereo. No surround sound, no Dolby, nothing. Not much of an entertainment system if you're not even getting the sound to match the picture.

Finally, going on betasp's numbers of 8Mbs for HD video. Over most people's broadband connections (sorry, but I believe most people live in the world of about 1-2 MBs, esp. on an average, as opposed to simplistic burst testing), that's 4 seconds for 1 second of video, or, doing the math to a 1:45 movie, comes to 25200 seconds to download (or 420 minutes, or 7 hours). So, I guess if you're one of those people who know what they want to watch at 8pm when you wake up in the morning, then this is fine. But don't be thinking this is going to be like the on-demand features of your local cable company.

Finally, before you all get your undies scrunched up in a ball about how great this would be, maybe you should wait for Apple to release H.264 compatible stuff so someone could actually test whether its video is as good as they claim to be. You know, Apple claims its 128kbps AAC files are CD quality, yet others claim they blow chunks (or their chunks blow, or both!) I also recall hearing how great QT streaming was going to be (still waiting for that greatness). So before you all leap off a building, I suggest you wait to see if the building is actually worth jumping off, and not just a bunch of promotional fluff from a bunch of companies.

ronjamin
Baninated

Joined: May 2002

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01/24, 10:36am | report spam | close Reply |
Ripping DVDs to iPod.

LordJohnWhorfin, while it is technically illegal to do so, an agreement between Apple and the movie industry, much as was done with iTunes Music Store, would remedy this. Undoubtedly, Apples DRM would come into play as it does with the music they sell. Lets face it, I can, with "Movies on Demand" on Comcast, record directly to my DVD recorder. Everyone with a computer can rip a DVD. The music industry (which is the same as the Movie Industry), has addressed cost issues by charging less for a movie than a cd (see Walmart). Hence, it is only a matter of time before on-demand movie purchasing, and ripping, is the defacto rule of the day.

MacHarbor
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01/24, 11:04am | report spam | close Reply |
Dolby Pro Logic 2

The Mac Mini already has a stereo audio output, which is just fine and dandy for Dolby Pro Logic decoding, which most 5.1 audio systems support.

I have a $30 Regent 5.1 audio system that I got from Wal-mart that has 3 sets of stereo RCA jacks (red/white, left/right) and it decodes the Dolby Pro Logic audio into the individual 5.1 channels from both my DVD and my PC games just fine. I even tested out each individual speaker and I don't hear any loss of quality. Just to make sure everyone understands. My speaker system DOES NOT HAVE a digital in port. All the 3D 5.1 audio is decoded via the speaker system AFTER it travels down the stereo cable from my DVD player or PC.

So 3D audio should be fine if they keep it to D-Pro Logic. As for the connecting it to a TV.
A) apple sells the TV_out kit already
B) Most HD and Plasma TVs that I have seen have either VGA or DVI ports on the back. Even alot of video projectors have VGA and DVI ports. It's not like we're living in the 30s.

Eug Wanker
Posting Junkie

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01/24, 11:37am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: bitrates

Just because HD can be close to 8 Mbps doesn't mean it's playable on a Mac mini. The problem is that the decoding required would overwhelm the CPU. For example, right now, even PowerBooks at 1.5 GHz have major problems with HD content at uber-high compression levels.

When the Mac mini gets hardware H.264 decoders or a G5 2.0, then we're talking. By that time, broadband speeds in most homes might actually be fast enough to make this feasible.

The Mac mini would be capable of playing SD content however, but still, it just doesn't make much sense at the point, for a whole host of reasons. Thus, I don't see an Apple Movie Store until 2007 or later.

OTOH, when the iTMS was launched, most of the pieces were already in place. Apple "just" needed to make sure everything worked together nicely.

tracheopterix
Forum Regular

Joined: Apr 2003

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01/24, 01:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
what about this way?

There is no reason that an iTunes Video Store would need to wait for easily deliverable HD content playable on the mac mini to start selling video.

iTVS could start with SD video using H.264 compression to fit a DVD into about 600-800 MB (800Kbps-1500Kbps http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/h264.html). On broadband one could download this in a couple hours and it's close to streamability. This beats netflix or blockbuster any way you slice it, as long as we get it on our home theaters, not our monitors...

So everyone is talking about the mini's ports, but why not think airport express? Apple could put out a squeezebox type device for wireless media transmission to a home theater, or a 2nd gen. airport express with component video out and whatever audio.

HD could be offered as an option, so those with enough processing power and pixels could dl 1080i and the rest of us 480p. This is a beautiful way to open the doors for apple and all apple users could get into right away.

A couple other things: iTVS could allow rental or purchase of content through a number of schemes - rental: download as much as you want but you can only watch each film N times, then it erases itself. Of course pirates could beat this but perhaps only to acceptable apple losses. If you like a rental you could buy it and unlock it.

Jobs has said that portable video isn't his thing. But that is only as things are now, if the structure is set up and buyers are there for home theater there is little reason not to make it portable considering the scalability of H.264.

Pretty exciting stuff.

(((tracheopterix)))

testudo
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01/24, 01:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: purchase

The only way a rental or purchase is going to work is if its cost-effective. h***, if they charge for a movie what they charge for albums, I'd rather spend the extra 3 bucks, get the full DVD with all features and audio encodings, rather than a digital copy for my computer only. iTunes actually works on an album basis because most albums are way overpriced in stores and on-line. [I've bought stuff on iTMS that was half-price or more of the prices I could find on amazon]. But, as someone pointed out, DVDs are priced less than music, so unless there's some bang for the buck, its useless.

Then again, for me, I'd consider it useless pretty much anyway, since I don't want to wait hours if I decide I want to watch a movie now. One reason I don't waste money or time at rental stores (the other being that, after a while, you realize most movies are c*** and aren't worth the plastic they're burned on).

testudo
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01/24, 01:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: DPL II

First off, Pro Logic II isn't 'true' surround sound, its "Let's make something surround from a stereo signal". And while it may sound good, its not the same as the actual thing (assuming the creator of the content actually spent time to put decent backing sound - going on your game example, you hear from the back speakers the sounds of someone coming up on you).

Second, while many HD TVs might have DVI ports on the back, they don't all support computer input (mine doesn't). And some only support input if its got that wonderful HDCP (or whatever its called) copy protection scheme flowing on it. We might not be living in the 30s, but its not like all these manufacturers are on the same page.

Also, if it were just a matter of hooking up the DVI, wouldn't Apple say "Hey, just hook up your mini via the DVI port to see HD" rather than say "Export iMovie HD content back to the camcorder, then watch the tape on the TV"?

msconvert
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01/24, 02:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
Couple of thoughts

1) How many times have we heard that H.264 is completely scaleable - right down to cell phones?

This makes any SD, HD issues moot. Your machine knows its capabilities and will download the appropriate resolution for your system.

2) Right now the mac mini is not meant for anything else but a PC replacement. It is only step 2 of apples of iPod trojan horse.

But the mac mini platform has the potential to include a G5 or even a freescale dual core G4 which surely as somepoint would be enough for HD content. Anyone out there remember that the next XBox will use a G5? Putting a low clock speed G5 in the small box of a mini is surely in the cards.

3) Quicktime has the best video scrubbing of ANY media player. This and the shear volume of a current DVD (and even the H.264 content) tells me that the only way to make the new system to work is for imediate play back with a significant buffer, but still download as you view. Anybody watch the the keynote speach over DSL/Cable? I certainly did. With H.264 the bandwidth will not be much greater.

4) The mini's DVI output can be connected to most HD TVs, as well as VGA displays and SD TV with adapters. This is the most flexible Mac at any price.

5) The rumor sites have flaunted a multi channel 'breakout box' used solely for Garageband recording.

I rather suggest that apple has a breakout box in developement for TVR cababilities as well as multi channel output for surround movies. This may also alieviate any HD decode issues as well. If you doubt this, when Apple bought Emagic for their Logic audio software, they also got a division that made the EMI 2|6. So apple already has the technology for garageband recording and there already exists plenty of competative products. Why would Apple have to further develope this technology? Why not develop it with playing video content in mind. Anyone remember when apple has released a product just to compete rather than to define the market? It has been a while and that is why I think the multi channel breakout box is for video and not just for audio.

I say let the computer/TV convergance begin and let it be done right by Apple!

msconvert
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01/24, 03:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Busting my own #5

One only needs to buy a usb to optical out by m-audio for $100 for surround sound. Maybe Apple will put one in their own multi channel box, but everything exists except the content for this ideas to be fruitful.

buck78
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01/24, 10:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
optical output...

Let's assume the Cringley is correct in his assumptions and the Mini is meant for HD video downloads. The Airport express has a mini stereo out that doubles as an optical out with the right cable.

Apple could easily have installed the same port on the Mini and disabled it. Just like the video port on the eMac, iMac and iBook are set to mirror. By flipping a few bits with a utility this port can be used in a dual head display. The same could be done with an optical out.

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Apple to leverage Mac mini to enter movie business?

updated 10:25 pm EST, Sun January 23, 2005

Apple to make movie play?

Ahh..

Robert X. Cringely

I agree

iPod Photo's Next Step

Barking up the wrong tree

Broadband is not too slow

disagree

Ripping DVDs to portables

Apple says Mac mini can'

Or, alternatively�

HD on MiniMAc

Mini HD Deficiencies

Bah!

Ripping DVDs to iPod.

Dolby Pro Logic 2

Re: bitrates

what about this way?

Re: purchase

Re: DPL II

Couple of thoughts

Busting my own #5

optical output...

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Apple to leverage Mac mini to enter movie business?

updated 10:25 pm EST, Sun January 23, 2005

Apple to make movie play?

Related Articles

Recent Articles

Ahh..

Robert X. Cringely

I agree

iPod Photo's Next Step

Barking up the wrong tree

Broadband is not too slow

disagree

Ripping DVDs to portables

Apple says Mac mini can'

Or, alternatively�

HD on MiniMAc

Mini HD Deficiencies

Bah!

Ripping DVDs to iPod.

Dolby Pro Logic 2

Re: bitrates

what about this way?

Re: purchase

Re: DPL II

Couple of thoughts

Busting my own #5

optical output...

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