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CIO Jury: Apple 'irrelevant' to businesses

updated 11:45 am EST, Wed January 19, 2005

Apple in enterprise?

Apple will continue to have trouble , according to a Silicon.com's CIO jury: "Leading IT bosses claim that despite Apple's recent revival - largely around its consumer products - the company will continue to have little impact on corporate IT strategies." One CIO said that Apple is "an irrelevance" in the enterprise markets, while another CTO simply balked at Apple's pricing and closed solutions: "Proprietary hardware and software, overpriced, few applications." At least one member of the jury, however, saw some potential calling Mac OS X, "Linux with quality assurance and style" and saying businesses will be forced to consider it because of Java's predominance, the maturing of open source, security and reliability issues, and the implications of telephony becoming software.

by MacNN Staff

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mbryda
Senior User

Joined: Mar 2002

0

01/19, 12:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
Irrelevant companies

Amtrak? Last I heard they were on the brink of bankrupcy.

The argument about proprietary hardware and software is idiotic at best. Tell that to all the companies running mission-critical apps on UNIX, AIX, AS/400's, etc. You know, proprietary solutions.

Any CIO that's worth anything knows proprietary solutions, while expensive are the best for security and reliability.

Personally, there are few companies on that CIO Panel that I've ever heard of, the rest are pretty much IRRELEVANT.

Let them get married to M$ with the open for virus, spy, and mal ware. No thanks. Smart companies evaluate all the options.

And, For their info, the fact that writing a virus for Windows is simple has nothing to do with market share or penetration, it's the FUNDAMENTAL DESIGN of WINDOWS THAT IS FLAWED. UNIXEs, while not perfect are INFINITELY HARDER TO WRITE VIRUSES FOR. This is by design.

This just goes to show how little of a clue most CIO's have.

UnixMac
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 2002

0

01/19, 12:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
Job Security

Its this simple. Windows environments for IT "professionals" means job security... as long as they have worms, viruses, spyware, and crashes they have jobs... OS X means a trimming of their staff and their salary..

OptimusG4
Mac Elite

Joined: Feb 2003

0

01/19, 12:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE: Job security

Thats what I was going to say. They aren't worried about few applications or proprietary hardware/software, they're worried about their wallets and the security of brainwashing any CEO to continue using Windows.

mbryda
Senior User

Joined: Mar 2002

0

01/19, 12:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Don't get it.

In this day and age, improving the bottom line is all that matters.

What better way than to implement a system that reduces your headcount? You improve the bottom line, trim staff and look like a hero?

bighead
Senior User

Joined: Feb 2001

0

01/19, 12:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Macs ? Big Iron

While Macs are not and will never replace big iron hardware without some serious improvements in the hardware, there are plenty of applications, even mission critical ones, that could be easily and inexpensively served by Mac OS X Server with Apple's current hardware offerings.

CTOs know jack shiat about IT and implementation, or at least the vast majority of them. Give an OS X Server box to a front-line guy, and while they may not love it, I'll put my money on them at least having a lot more respect for it.

horvatic
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2002

0

01/19, 12:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
IT

What propriatary hardware? What closed system? OSX works with any Mac and works well in a mixed plaform inviroment with linux and Windows. These people don't know what there talking about. Xserve is a multiplatform server. It can dish out OSX, Linux, or Windows and at a lower cost. I'm working at a large Bio Tech company and Macs intergrate seemlessly with Windows PC's.

LordJohnWhorfin
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Joined: Aug 2002

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01/19, 12:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bull...

Check out this article: Cisco announced just last week that they picked Apple XServe, XServe RAID and Xsan for one of their projects. They determined that this solution cost them roughly half of what anything else would. But I guess Cisco doesn't know jack about IT...

LordJohnWhorfin
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Joined: Aug 2002

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01/19, 12:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
Oops... bad tag

Here's the article on Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/general/2005/01/11/generalmacobserver_2005_01_11_eng-macobserver_eng-macobserver_103356_6211153172770290903.html

gb506
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Joined: Jan 2005

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01/19, 01:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
I love this

You mention a mac to a CTO or CIO and they spit on the ground. Never had the occasion to use one, never had a study done that looked into the value proposition, but they sure know what's relevant and what's not.

Here at my Company we have a couple hundred PCs and about 10 Macs. Our IT dept. doesn't even have a tech w/ mac expertise. That should tell you something...

Let them languish in the morass that is Windows/Exchange/Dirt_Cheap_HW. It's a fitting sentence for the intentionally blind.

ZinkDifferent
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Joined: Jan 2005

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01/19, 01:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
Consider....

... that most large corporate CIO positions are staffed by people that advanced based on the Peter Principle, or by people that no other department wanted - one you know this, statements such as the ones in that article make sense.

These are folks that are challenged checking their e-mail, yet are somehow entrusted to make IT decisions for an entire company - entrusted to do so, bear in mind, by people that know even less about IT than they do.

...and the cycle continues...

As such, the grand scheme of things, most of these folks, and their companies, are more or less irrelevant - and as the article shows, at least one guy on that 'jury' actually has a pretty good grasp on Apple's offerings. The rest of these guys most likely still have visions of small 9" b&w screens when they think of Apple - as evidenced by their highlighted uninformed statements.

I particularly liked the one from the Amtrak guy, that "he is kept busy ensuring staff are not attaching iPods to business machines" - I would have figured that he would be kept more busy by MS-Windows virus and malware stuff.

As for most of these guys being 'unknowns', it seems that they selected a largely european jury - and in Europe, the anti-Mac bias is even stronger.

Also, bear in mind, that this Jury is not really independently selected, but rather composed of folks that volunteer for it ("If you are a CIO, IT director or equivalent at a large or small company in the private or public sector and want to be part of silicon.com's CIO Jury pool, or you know an IT chief who should be, then drop us a line at editorial@silicon.com") - in other words, you end up with folks with WAY too much time on their hands, but that like to see their name in print -- and we all know how competent that type of person generally is :-)

I would suggest finding folks that have a better understanding of technology, and nominating them to the Jury pool - but, of course, those folks won't get picked for juicy quotes...

ZinkDifferent

HeatherEcsedi
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Joined: Oct 2001

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01/19, 01:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Darn

I guess I'll have to throw away every Mac I use and replace them with Windows boxes. It's hard to hear the 10 years I've been working with Macs were irrelevant.

ender
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 1999

0

01/19, 01:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Proprietary...

So the one guy is calling Mac software proprietary? So what exactly is Windows? That is the biggest challenge Apple faces in the corporate world. Too many CIOs are simply sheep following the MS proprietary solutions, brainwashed into believing that if it comes from Redmond it must be the univeral standard everyone should adhere to.

dave a
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Joined: Jan 2002

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01/19, 01:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
but...

these guys DO control corporate purchases, which is why Macs were thrown out for Windows in the first place - and why Linux is having such a rough time of it. (well, that and Linux can be quite messy).

macimmortal
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Joined: Aug 2001

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01/19, 02:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Um...you are so wrong

"these guys DO control corporate purchases, which is why Macs were thrown out for Windows in the first place"

Macs in corporations were never thrown out for Windows. Apple never quite broke into the business market....period.

I think now they may very well be doing that...finally.

bobolicious
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Joined: Aug 2002

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01/19, 02:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Mac = compromise in biz

bang on - I still need a pc because java & safari aren't fully compatible, there are no options for accounting that come even close to PC (Quickbooks for example), yada, yada, yada...

Things STILL DON'T WORK in OS-X as well as they did in OS-9 for some really basic needs, so burn your dvd's & play with your ipods, but when the mac does everything as well as a pc for the same or less money then you will get more takers...

MrKlin
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2004

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01/19, 02:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
More whine

First of all, this is just silicon.com - not what I consider a top tier publication. Second, this jury pool is a self-nominated pool of CIOs - people who are mostly non-influential in their perspective industries. But lastly, never underestimate the zealots who bite the flamebiating articles.

What now? Add CIO/CTO your list of biased journalists and analysts? Instead of venting on this board, become a CIO/CTO for chrissake and exercise your power. We will also see if you care about misinformed perceptions of your work by kids on Macnn forum.

koolkid1976
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2003

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01/19, 02:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
CIO Jury:Irrelevant to me

Nuff said.

Jonathan-Tanya
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2004

0

01/19, 02:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
not fashionable yet

Windows is a closed proprietary system. Having worked in several fortune 500 companies, I can tell you....a CIO doesn't know what closed or proprietary means anyway...

they prescribed to absolutely no philosophy at all, they will simply evaluate what other companies are already doing, and attempt to navigate the absoulute safest choice.

It's not about saving money either...so don't hang your hat on that, big companies both can and do waste a ton of money...you have to convince them that someone else has already done it, and that the huge upfront investment saves them money, in the long run, by circumventing various problems and giving them various competitive edges that only they, the CIO, were clever enough to anticipate.

Don't ever actually save a big company money...whats the point in going after the big clients, if you are just going to do something silly like that.

ronjamin
Baninated

Joined: May 2002

0

01/19, 02:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
A Great General Once Said

The pundits whine like a baby with a diaper full of poo. Apple is rocking the high-tech world and there is nothing they can do about it.

George Patton summed it up succinctly: "Nobody ever defended anything successfully, there is only attack and attack and attack some more". . . . .

. . . . and the iPod, OSX, xServe, G5, iMac(s), et. al. lead the charge.

jasonsRX7
Mac Elite

Joined: Jul 2003

0

01/19, 02:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hard to switch

I administer a windows network, but I'm a Mac user at home. I'd love to see more of our wintel systems replaced by Macs but there are so many of these little onesy-twosy programs that we have to use here and there that are windows based. For example, in our Fleet Maintenance division, we are required to use a windows program that interfaces with the engine management of some of our equipment and vechices. One of the vendors for our nutrition dept. only ships a windows version of their software. The program that works with our gas pumps is windows based, as is the software that handles waste management, and milling operations. When we make the decision to choose a particular application, it can't be because I like Macs better, it has to be because that is the best program for our needs.

At least I will be able to implement a Xserve based SAN in the near future. I'm hoping that if we get a few Xserves in here, some of the others in the IT dept will get a better appreciation for Apple products.

dashiel
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2001

0

01/19, 02:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
who cares

really this is like the tedious market share argument. here's the deal right, as long as apple keeps chugging along making money each quarter, innovating cool new products and increasing their user base (which they do every year), all of this punditry is useless. who cares if apple never becomes a business machine, or never gains market share beyond 2-3%. as a developer you recognize there are 14 million panther users out there. get 1% of that market and charge $10 for your product and have a very nice year. get 1% and charge $100 and retire.

barryjaylevine
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Joined: Oct 2003

0

01/19, 03:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
"Proprietary"??

Hmmm. I didn't realize that Unix was proprietary. Guess that makes Microsoft's products "open-source"?

Who was the clown who mentioned "proprietary"? What a yutz.

brmacmd
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2005

0

01/19, 05:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
CTOs and bias

I have an email sent to me by our SrVP of Technology, where, in response to a suggestion about looking at an Xserve/Raid for creative users (all mac), where he says (among other things)that "we all have our own biases..."

What amazes me, and I think most of the comments are right on, is that in the business of business (and, thereby, making money), you really can't afford to let your bias of Windows stop you from at least looking at other possible solutions. This is more critical when you look at prices for comparable solutions; the Xserve does the money side of things much better, doesn't hurt the existing non-mac users, or, network admins, and does as well, if not better for my mac users.

Bias is dead. IT depts. can't afford to let bias get in the way of getting work done. It's, IMHO, the fear of the unknown, and as someone else posted, fear of losing your job.

I got tossed some 2yr. old research dismissing Xserve, and was told to no longer spend anytime researching or investigating how well this might meet the companies needs. I'm about 2 wks from accepting a new position at a place that DOES understand.

kentuckyfried
Senior User

Joined: Jan 2002

0

01/19, 05:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
that's a tough point

"I administer a windows network, but I'm a Mac user at home. I'd love to see more of our wintel systems replaced by Macs but there are so many of these little onesy-twosy programs that we have to use here and there that are windows based. For example, in our Fleet Maintenance division, we are required to use a windows program that interfaces with the engine management of some of our equipment and vechices"

yeah, unfortunately in the corporate world, there's too many of these little windows-based apps that require the use of a PC.

So unless there's some sort of small company catering to those needs that can code the same software for OS X, it'll be difficult for Macs to enter in as a viable business solution.

Either that, or PC emulation on a Mac has to be perfect, or at least convince people that it works good enough.

sbarton05
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2005

0

01/19, 06:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple in the Enterprise

I have Blog dedicated to discussing Apple in the Enterprise. I've just posted an opinion piece about the Silicon.com article. Please feel free to take a look at it and tell me what you think:

http://homepage.mac.com/sbarton/iblog/apple

Thanks,
Bart

blackbird_1.0
Mac Elite

Joined: May 2001

0

01/19, 08:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: ma =compromise in biz

um, quicknoks and quicken are both available on osx, and my java works fine.

gb506
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2005

0

01/20, 11:03am | report spam | close Reply |
RE: that's a tough point

Kentuckyfried said: "yeah, unfortunately in the corporate world, there's too many of these little windows-based apps that require the use of a PC."

I say: Any IT exec that has a critical app built nowadays that is NOT web based is a complete idiot and should be fired and then sued for incompetence. There's no excuse anymore for building little proprietary desktop apps when you consider the administrative and future HW/SW compatibility issues.

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CIO Jury: Apple 'irrelevant' to businesses

updated 11:45 am EST, Wed January 19, 2005

Apple in enterprise?

Irrelevant companies

Job Security

RE: Job security

Don't get it.

Macs ? Big Iron

IT

Bull...

Oops... bad tag

I love this

Consider....

Darn

Proprietary...

but...

Um...you are so wrong

Mac = compromise in biz

More whine

CIO Jury:Irrelevant to me

not fashionable yet

A Great General Once Said

Hard to switch

who cares

"Proprietary"??

CTOs and bias

that's a tough point

Apple in the Enterprise

re: ma =compromise in biz

RE: that's a tough point

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CIO Jury: Apple 'irrelevant' to businesses

updated 11:45 am EST, Wed January 19, 2005

Apple in enterprise?

Related Articles

Recent Articles

Irrelevant companies

Job Security

RE: Job security

Don't get it.

Macs ? Big Iron

IT

Bull...

Oops... bad tag

I love this

Consider....

Darn

Proprietary...

but...

Um...you are so wrong

Mac = compromise in biz

More whine

CIO Jury:Irrelevant to me

not fashionable yet

A Great General Once Said

Hard to switch

who cares

"Proprietary"??

CTOs and bias

that's a tough point

Apple in the Enterprise

re: ma =compromise in biz

RE: that's a tough point

Login Here

Register for our weekly email newsletter:

Connect tools:

Subscribe

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on Twitter

10 Most Read

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