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Forbes: Apple Bites The Fans That Feed It

updated 11:00 am EST, Fri January 7, 2005

Redux on Apple lawsuit

Forbes.com says that Apple's lawsuit against a Mac rumor site for publishing industry rumors is : "this sort of stuff happens all the time in the tech industry. Sources leak details of forthcoming products to reporters whose motivation is to get credit for an exclusive story. Here's the difference with Apple: most of its secret product news is not published first by national, mainstream media, but by Apple advocates. These people are customers, fans and Apple-lovers. This community gives Apple untold free--and mostly positive--publicity and buzz about upcoming products and strategies. They salivate over every upgrade."

by MacNN Staff

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waffffffle
Mac Elite

Joined: Sep 2000

0

01/07, 11:11am | report spam | close Reply |
WRONG

The rumor sites cannot be categorized as Mac fan sites. They are sites that Mac fans visit, for dirt on Apple, but the sites themselves have informants who break NDA contracts with Apple, and are most likely paid for their information. This isn't Apple slapping down a fan site, this is Apple plugging up leaks and pursuing those who violate their contracts. Apple has not gone too far.

Lets not forget the Workerbee scandal from years ago. Apple had every right to do that, just like they do now.

fritzw1957
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2004

0

01/07, 11:32am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: WRONG

> The rumor sites cannot be categorized as Mac fan sites.

What are they then? Sites for Windows fans? Even Microsoft tolerates blogging by it's employees...

> They are sites that Mac fans visit, for dirt on Apple, but the sites themselves have informants who break NDA contracts with Apple, and are most likely paid for their information.

You have PROOF of this? Contact Apple legal - I'm sure they'd LOVE to talk to you. :-)

> Lets not forget the Workerbee scandal from years ago. Apple had every right to do that, just like they do now.

It wasn't that long ago... and yes, Apple had the right to terminate his employment, because he DID violate the NDA that every employee in Corporate must routinely sign as part of his indoctrination papers (You have papers? Where are your papers? ;-) It didn't help matters any when said employee was using e-mail to notify Think Secret and a few other sites with gossip about forthcoming products.

What Apple (READ: STEVEN P. JOBS) is really doing is generating BUZZ about the new products and by shutting down the web/satellite broadcasts, it's free publicity for them!

Going after the media is a little like biting the hand that feeds you... and those in the audience Tuesday morning will be busily typing away on their laptops, PDA's and cell phones to make sure that the rumour sites get the straight dope from MWSF '05. They can't restrict access to the media, IF THEY"VE BEEN INVITED TO ATTEND - and they have been.

'nuff said...

awcopus
Mac Elite

Joined: Nov 2001

0

01/07, 11:36am | report spam | close Reply |
Agreed

Mac Fans, even most of the zealots, are not idiots. Apple is going after individuals who violated contractual obligations to keep their mouths shut about products Apple expects to create revenue streams from... revenue that competitors are quite eager to direct their way as soon as possible.

Apple has no choice but to pursue this and do so intenely. Otherwise, every employee or vendor with whom it has an NDA in place right now will think less of it and be more inclined to jeopardize Apple going forward.

JohnnyFive
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2003

0

01/07, 11:48am | report spam | close Reply |
Well...

They were probably trying to save legal fees by going to a full-blown lawsuit rather than repeatedly asking their lawyers to fire C&D letters to rumour sites. I guess those C&Ds were costing them too much.

alex627
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2004

0

01/07, 11:54am | report spam | close Reply |
Duh

Apple's revenue has NOTHING to do with rumor sites. Blaming websites for posting information that 99% of all potential customers never see is stupid. You people who defend corporations for frivolous lawsuits are the same corporate lackeys who then turn-around and ridicule citizens for bringing frivolous lawsuits.

You assume that since it is a corporation bringing the suit it is not frivolous. And thus you are selling yourself and your fellow man out. You want huge corporations to control our lives. You love it! You love freedom! Just like Iraqis!

The USA. Installing freedom and democracy around the world.

rjlawrencejr
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2004

0

01/07, 11:56am | report spam | close Reply |
Keep in mind...

There is much more money at stake too. I have seen other posts regarding the possible volatility of Apple's stock price in terms of increased exuberance if the rumor is for a product Apple has decided not to make or market.

Apple wants to make sure that they aren't sued by overzealous stockholders who accuse the company of mismanagement.

jconstant
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2002

0

01/07, 12:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not Frivolous

Those of you that think this is frivolous needs to read this:

http://daringfireball.net/

ZinkDifferent
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2005

0

01/07, 12:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
Think Stupid..!

I have very little sympathy for 'Nick DePlume' and 'ThinkSecret', and I sincerely hope that Apple will thoroughly gut them, figure out the Apple employees that have repeatedly leaked such information, and make a big, painful example off them.

Seriously, I see a big difference between playful and speculative rumor discussions, and the blatant disregard and lack of respect for Apple (read: Steve Jobs) and their desire to have a keynote the way they want it to be - which, at least to me, has always been enjoyable.

All a site like ThinkSecret can hope to achieve is primarily steal Apple's thunder, if these products really are about to be announced, and secondarily harm Apple, if such products were not to be announced (or if there is a last minute change of plans to not announce said product) - as then people will have built-up expectations that won't be met.

As such, particularly TS's continued blatant disregard for Apple by continuing to post more such 'news' (the current FlashPod blurb), really makes me wonder on whose side they really are on - certainly *not* Apple's side - and what axe NickDePlume really has to grind. Either way, I hope he gets burnt, big time, as should his informants.

ZinkDifferent

abe2
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2004

0

01/07, 12:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Puh-lease!

These 'customers' are hardly customers when they violate contract-law and/or dessiminate trade secrets and possibly hit your bottom-line.

Obviously an attempt by a 2-bit author trying to get more hits to their crappy articles.

ScottEllsworth
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2001

0

01/07, 12:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
It is hardley firivous

Alex,

Did you read the articles on think secret? The breakout box article had the clear look of a trade secret document, which weans that Nick should have had at least a qualm about covering it.

Consider: that device cost Apple millions to design and create. Shouldn't they be the ones to decide when and how to announce it?

It is hardly frivolous for a company to go after people who broke confidentiality agreements or employment contracts. TS likely knows who those people are, which will allow Apple to sue them under the contracts they signed.

I actually feel rather sorry for the people who worked on some of these products. They have not been able to talk about their work for months, and now they may lose their moment in the sun at MWSF, because someone broke the news first. That cuts down greatly on the impact of the new product.

Scott

trusted_content
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Nov 2002

0

01/07, 12:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
What a crock

Those that think rumor sites like TS and AI are operating in Apple's interest really need to get their head checked. These sites encourage Apple employees to step forward and violate their contractual agreements, and secondarily they s**** Apple out of the chance to annnounce their own products when they see fit. I don't care how big a bunch of Mac fans you all are. With things like Asteroid, where extremely detailed information (manufacturing date and place, full specifications, history of development, etc.) were released _months_ before any particular announcement, various competitors have already had enough time and opportunity to one-up Apple should they choose to still release it. I don't see how this is a good thing. As the R&D lab for the computer industry, Apple _requires_ secrecy lest they lose the first-to-market edge they've always had, and the increasing brazenness of rumor sites can only be seen as a bad thing.

Frankly I don't even see the need for this sort of monkey business anymore. I stopped reading rumor sites once the G5 was announced, because it was clear from that time forward that everything was going to be a-ok for Apple. Some of you just can't control yourselves.

cooner
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2003

0

01/07, 12:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
Potentially Hurting Apple

As someone mentioned above, www.daringfireball.com is a must-read.

As a working artist, I've seen a lot of this same opinion everywhere: That releasing trade secrets -- or distributing artwork without permission -- somehow "helps" the company or artist because, hey, it's free publicity, and any publicity is good publicity.

But that's not the case. First of all, legally and ethically, whether doing something is helpful or not, it's the decision of the creator and owner of the product to decide what to do with it, not some well-intentiond (or not) fan.

And secondly, it can hurt. John Gruber sites as a good example the iPod mini ... before the announcement, the rumor sites were saying the new generation iPod would be "as low as $100." By the time Jobs announced it, you could feel the sagging disappointment and uncertainty when he revealed the price of $249. Now, eventually, the mini recovered and retained its popularity, but what if the figure for this hypothetical new computer was going to be $599? Or $699? (As Gruber mentioned, final sales price is the least likely information internal informants are likely to know before release, and the most likely figure ThinkSecret might have pulled out of its hat.) Still would be probably one of the best bargains we've seen from Apple in awhile, but now everyone will grumble with disappointment over this 'overpriced' machine ...

Are the lawsuits overboard? Maybe. But this isn't the simple, flippant, frivilous situation some folks are making it out to be.

marzetta7
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2003

0

01/07, 02:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Alex627

Apple's revenue has NOTHING to do with rumor sites. Blaming websites for posting information that 99% of all potential customers never see is stupid. You people who defend corporations for frivolous lawsuits are the same corporate lackeys who then turn-around and ridicule citizens for bringing frivolous lawsuits.

I'm sorry, but last time I checked, lawsuits from citizens claiming McDonalds made them fat, McDonalds should be blamed for people spilling hot coffee on themselves, and Apple "forced" them to buy an iPod to listen to their iTunes music are just what you described, frivolous. In this case, there is nothing frivolous about Apple protecting their trade secrets as this can be seen as informational capital, that is, an asset or advantage Apple holds in their favor. What's without merit is your next comments.

You assume that since it is a corporation bringing the suit it is not frivolous. And thus you are selling yourself and your fellow man out. You want huge corporations to control our lives. You love it! You love freedom! Just like Iraqis!

The USA. Installing freedom and democracy around the world.

Dear Mr. Alex627 the communist, this is the second time I've called you out on making anti-American statements especially when it pertains to Iraq. What's your deal? You hate America because it is the pinnacle other countries look up to? You hate us because we live in a capatilistic society? Wake up man, corporations don't control our lives. They--corporations--exist in this wonderful free market society we call America and we have the free agency to decide whether or not a suit brought by them upon persons are friviolous. We don't assume anything, so spare us the "selling yourself and your fellow man out" mantra c***. Your response shows the responsibility factor you have lacked in previous posts. Mr. Nick published confidential information and now has to face the consequences of his actions. This is not stupid, this is about accountability, so now he has to grow a sack and face up to it. If the employees who are responsible for leaking the information are found, I hope they get what they deserve for breaking their agreement--termination. But God forbid, we have any responsiblity in your world Alex,...that would be just so....American.

abe2
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2004

0

01/07, 02:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
As typical

trolls (marzetta7, Alex627) turn a Mac discussion into political propaganda.

darkelf
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2003

0

01/07, 02:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
meh

i hereby name TS with that most vile of names, most hated of words, most damning of appellations.

leecher.

Roehlstation
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

01/07, 02:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
Operating in a Niche

If you have a product announcment leak prior to when you are ready to announce it, people stop buying your current offerings. When that happens, the revenue you were counting on stops. When you have a smaller market share, that number of people waiting to buy really hurts. Intel gets away with it mostly because when they announce a new one, people continue to buy at pretty much the same volume. Smaller Niche markets have to operate this way. Rumor sites also hurt because people wait for the announcement, not buying anything, then when you don't deliver what the Rumor sites promise (or never intended to deliver what the rumor sites promise), people get upset and your stock drops dramatically.

So if you really cared, you wouldn't even visit those sites.

Ganesha
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

01/07, 02:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple should...

1) Find out of anyone at Think Secret, or related to them owns Apple stock and if they bought any recently.

2) If 1 is yes, do not announce any products that Think Secret pre announced.

3) Watch Apple's stock falls.

4) Get an overzealous DA to fill CRIMINAL charges against Think Secret for pumping and dumping Apple's stock.

Why can they do this?

Think Secret's TOS: "Think Secret is provided for informational purposes only, and is not provided for ANY OTHER PURPOSE WHATSOEVER."

This means to me TS is stating we are a News/Information site and not a rumor/entertainment site.

beeble
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2004

0

01/07, 02:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Leaks can cost millions

As Alex so clearly doesn't understand, a leak can cost a company millions. The usual way is that if the leak comes out with enough time before a product announcement, a competitor can make a similar product quickly and get it to market and steal the thunder. Imagine if Dell had heard about the iMac and quickly thrown a cheap PC together in a similar looking case and released before Apple did. Apple would have been considered copy cats instead of the true innovators that they are. They would have lost buzz and sales and wintel users would forever say that Apple were copycats instead of M$.

You see, the real world is far more complex than you slogan slanted brain seems capable of grasping. There have been many other reasons listed here as to why this is the right move for Apple, but to me this is the biggest one. The PC of tomorrow is the Apple of today. That is a market position Apple should guard with everything they have because it's what has kept them alive through some dark times. Now that things are looking better, they can really capitalise on that - so long as they don't listen to morons like you or this Forbes.com guy.

marzetta7
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2003

0

01/07, 02:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: As Typical

I don't know what the h*** your talking about. Most of my post concerned freakin Apple. So before you go spewing what I can amount to diarrhea of the mouth, read the freakin posts. Troll? I'm not trying to make anything a political discussion especially a Mac discussion, but I will respond when people make stupid comments, and thus we had your comment. And thus, I responded.

iKevin
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Nov 2000

0

01/07, 03:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
Funny

The rumor sites have been blasted in the past for not being accurate. Now they're blasting for being too accurate.

swatson
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

0

01/07, 03:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
just part of the fun

lawsuits are just part of the fun leading up to the expo!

I read the rumors, but I understand Apple's position.

abe2
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2004

0

01/07, 03:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
marzetta7

yeah, thanks for proving you're truely a troll.

Sebastien
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Apr 2000

0

01/07, 04:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Re: As Typical

[Trollmaster marzetta7 wrote:] "I don't know what the h*** your talking about.....Troll? I'm not trying to make anything a political discussion especially a Mac discussion"

Oh really? Well, let's see:

[Original Trollmaster marzetta7 to Troll Alex627]:
"Dear Mr. Alex627 the communist, this is the second time I've called you out on making anti-American statements especially when it pertains to Iraq. What's your deal? You hate America because it is the pinnacle other countries look up to?"

Sure sounds political to me! Of course, you could have just ignored that troll, but nooooooo, you just had to spew out your own propaganda!

Now, before you start foaming at the mouth again and once again spew more of your own diarrhea, take the time and look up the words ignorant, hypocrite and troll in the dictionary, as they most definitively do apply to you.

marzetta7
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2003

0

01/07, 06:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Re: As Typical

Hmmm, Sebastien, it seems that the 2% of my post that actually was a response to an earlier political statement MADE by Alex627 has seemed to hit you pretty hard. Allow me to put the kid gloves on for you.

What I find funny is that you failed to quote the statement I made that most of my post dealt with Apple. You just left that part out, I'm guessing because it seemed to give you earlier post more credibility when you cry PROPAGANDA. You're right though, I COULD have ignored Alex627, but I prefer not sit idly by while persons make asinine comments especially about a country I live in that has no bearing whatsoever on the subject at hand which is Apple, and why, in my opinion they are justified in going after TS to find out who in their company is leaking confidential information.

But alas, all you care about is focusing on the 2% of my post that was directed to Alex627 and had very little to do with you. Then of course you proceeded to upchuck words like ignorant, hypocrite, and troll. To what end was this for? To cause contention between you and I? Let me ask you this,...What have you added to this particular subject--Apple suing TS? Ahh, is your reflection coming into a clearer picture now? Haahahah, and I'm the troll. Whatever. You can please respond by actually giving your opinion on the subject at hand, which I have now done numerous times now. That is, unless you want to continue your current progression that you share with your pal Abe and come back with snappy one liners and name calling that have nothing to do with Apple. Only time will tell.

abe2
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2004

0

01/07, 07:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
again with the trolling

by marzetta7

Boy, you obviously have a need to have the last word, don't ya? Well, we'll let you have it, troll!

MrKlin
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2004

0

01/07, 08:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
All good

"Mac Fans, even most of the zealots, are not idiots. Apple is going after individuals who violated contractual obligations to keep their mouths shut about products Apple expects to create revenue streams from... revenue that competitors are quite eager to direct their way as soon as possible.

Apple has no choice but to pursue this and do so intenely. Otherwise, every employee or vendor with whom it has an NDA in place right now will think less of it and be more inclined to jeopardize Apple going forward."

All good but Apple is suing a web site, not those employees or vendors who leaked this information to the website and thus violated their NDA.

This is analgous to RIAA suing an ISP for *allowing* P2P traffic that violates copyright. First, RIAA did not even bother suing the ISPs for allowing that traffic becuase RIAA would be laughed out of court. Since then, the court has since established RIAA cannot even subpoena the ISPs to disclose the names for the alleged perpetrators.

This would be different even Apple sued the leakers directly - not the site that posted the leak.

I predict this lawsuit would be deemed meritless and dismissed.

As for zealots not being idiots, I think not.

MrKlin
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2004

0

01/07, 08:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
Seriously

"Seriously, I see a big difference between playful and speculative rumor discussions, and the blatant disregard and lack of respect for Apple (read: Steve Jobs) and their desire to have a keynote the way they want it to be - which, at least to me, has always been enjoyable."

Seriously, do you work for a living?

I can create a web site called Googlesuckslikedoggiepoo.com and blatant disregard Sergei's and Larry's feelings. I can disrepect them and trash their desire of having a wonderful presentation. So what? Did I break any laws? Does my first amendment succumbs to your respect for Steve?

I work in a $50B international company. Most people love our products. Some people hate it. There are tons of sites, boards, etc that discussed the good, the bad, the rumors on upcoming features that may have some effect on our stock price.

But heck, unless laws or contracts are broken, we are powerless to do anything about it. And even when we have grounds, we can only act against the perpetrators, not the site, the ISP, the message boards, the other sites that run ads on that site to support it, etc. To do so would just be tree-rattling and not going after the actual perpetrators.

"Consider: that device cost Apple millions to design and create. Shouldn't they be the ones to decide when and how to announce it?"

No, Scott. If there's a webcam in the iMac G5 design room that broadcasted the information to the open web, does that mean I cannot disclose the information? It's Apple's job to keep it a secret and to keep its employees', contractors', and vendors' mouth shut.

"TS likely knows who those people are, which will allow Apple to sue them under the contracts they signed."

First, Scott, you do not know whether TS knows them or not. It is pure speculation. Second, Apple's target is and should be the individual leakers, not TS.

MrKlin
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2004

0

01/07, 08:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
Fors trusted_content

"These sites encourage Apple employees to step forward and violate their contractual agreements, and secondarily they s**** Apple out of the chance to annnounce their own products when they see fit."
******
So?

Is that illegal? No.

Did these sites break any contracts? No.

Did the leakers break contracts? Maybe.

They are the people whom Apple should go after.
******
"Frankly I don't even see the need for this sort of monkey business anymore."

Unfortunately, your opinion does not override anyone's rights. To paraphrase: I don't like what you have to say but I will defend your right to say it.
*******
Beeble says: "As Alex so clearly doesn't understand, a leak can cost a company millions."

I say, as Beeble clearly does not understand, if Apple is not suing because it thinks it will lose money. It certainly did not say so in their filings because otherwise they would have to prove that in court! Who are you guys to claim that the Apple would lost certain $$$ because of these leaks when Apple is not claim it?

As for people groaning about the price of iPod mini, they could not have groaned because they wanted the iPod to be cheaper? What consumers would not like Apple products to be cheaper beside zealots who would donate every cent of their earnings to the underpaid Steve's front step?

Sebastien
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Apr 2000

0

01/07, 11:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Re: As Typical

y marzetta7 Boy, you obviously have a need to have the last word, don't ya? Well, we'll let you have it, troll!

He obviously does; well put abe2! ;)

z10n
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2003

0

01/10, 05:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bleh

Guess what people? I don't work for apple- I have no moral obligation to them. I like reading about what apple is coming out with before they actually come out with it. It's fun to have insider knowledge about what is going on with one of my favorite companies. Kind of like reading websites with spoilers for movies that haven't been released yet. If apple kills thinksecret, then another will rise up in it's place, because there are a LOT of people that want to know this information.

Apple will continue to sue, websites will fall, and new websites will continue to come up to replace the sued websites. Round and round the wheel it goes, where it stops, nobody knows.

People can get so damn emotional about these things.

Xiaopangzi
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2003

0

01/26, 11:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hypocritical responses!

The only damage that rumor sites have every had on Apple is to lead informed Mac fans to hold off on purchases when they hear about rumors of upcoming hardware revisions. Although this may make it more difficult to clear old hardware from the shelves, it does ensure that the customers are happy that they have not purchased a computer that becomes outdated just weeks after the purchase is made. I'd say that happy fans should be a priority. However, the vast majority of Mac users don't seem to be visiting these sites, so it still isn't so hard to clear the shelves of old hardware without reducing the prices.

The most bizarre thing about the responses to these articles is that the posters are ignoring the obvious fact that MacNN is a rumor site. We all come here to find out what is expected to come to market. If we were looking for actual announcements of official releases, we would all just visit Apple.com. It is from MacNN that we click on links and surf over to MacRumors.com, MacOSRumors.com, ThinkDifferent.com, ThinkSecret.com, AppleInsider.com, and every other rumor site.

This is an era in which even the most serious people rely mostly on BitTorrent and the various GNUtella clients for software and serial numbers such as the Serial Box package. What we look for in the rumor sites is hardware-related news. Apple doesn't care as much about profit directly from the software that it provides, because that is reportedly (by Steve Jobs himself) just a means to drive the hardware sales.

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Forbes: Apple Bites The Fans That Feed It

updated 11:00 am EST, Fri January 7, 2005

Redux on Apple lawsuit

Related Articles

Recent Articles

WRONG

Re: WRONG

Agreed

Well...

Duh

Keep in mind...

Not Frivolous

Think Stupid..!

Puh-lease!

It is hardley firivous

What a crock

Potentially Hurting Apple

Alex627

As typical

meh

Operating in a Niche

Apple should...

Leaks can cost millions

Re: As Typical

Funny

just part of the fun

marzetta7

Re: Re: As Typical

Re: Re: As Typical

again with the trolling

All good

Seriously

Fors trusted_content

Re: Re: As Typical

Bleh

Hypocritical responses!

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