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Apple sues three for posting Tiger on Net

updated 04:25 pm EST, Tue December 21, 2004

Apple sues over piracy

Apple has were revealed.

by MacNN Staff

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Eriamjh
Addicted to MacNN

Joined: Oct 2001

0

12/21, 05:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
From what I've Heard...

Tiger is c*** so far. It's not done. Why can't people wait to steal it until it's done?

alex627
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Joined: Oct 2004

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12/21, 05:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
ewwww

Apple is now suing members of the development community who posted beta software on an easy target (bit torrent). How petty. Kind of like the USA attacking Iraq. The full version will be available for download days after release anyway. What is the point of targeting the very people who are fighting to keep Apple alive? Stupid and petty scare tactics.

Ok let's just shut down the internet except for shopping. That'll fix everything. That's what the internet is for right?

Arislan
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Joined: Feb 2004

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12/21, 05:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hold on...

Listen, this is pre-release software provided to developers under an NDA. The whining that Apple is busting some people who violated their agreement is bull****. Apple has a right to protect their property. If those people are fighting to keep Apple alive, they should play by the rules or not play.

scottkleinberg
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Joined: Nov 2003

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12/21, 05:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yo Alex

Hey, Alex627 ... would love to see you in Iraq. That's where I am. I'm fighting for my country. You're condoning software piracy. Yeah, you're relevant.

mgpalma
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2000

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12/21, 05:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: ewwww

It's illegal that's why. Developers and beta testers are bound by a legal agreement which states that it is illegal to even DISCUSS pre-release software , let alone actually distribute it. If someone does not wish to be bound by those rules than they can wait along with everybody else. If this kind of attitude keeps up we are going to wind up with the same kind of serial # activation scheme that MS uses. Is that what you want?

mgpalma
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2000

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12/21, 05:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Yo Alez

user scottkleinberg

Yeah, condoning piracy and supporting terrorists, what a marvelous set of beliefs.

I'm I am honored at your service to our country and grateful for the hard work you and the rest of our military are doing there. Keep the faith, you are all in our prayers.

Michael

theJoKell
Forum Regular

Joined: Sep 2004

0

12/21, 05:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
Meh

"Apple has a right to protect their property"

Agreed. However I don't think this is necessarily the best course of action. Why sue your own customers?

mgpalma
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2000

0

12/21, 06:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re:Why sue your own...

So do nothing? Simple fact if the law is not enforced some will not obey it. I mean it is there for a reason, isn't it? Besides sueing can have a variety of courses, not just money-so there may be a effective punishment besides cash...

my .02

I'm done...

trevj
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 1999

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12/21, 06:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re. Yo Alex

Warning: Totally Apple-unrelated
FYI, the guy never actually said he was figthing in Iraq. He's actually a newspaper editor and judging from the photos on his .Mac site (I may be wrong), I doubt he's in the reserves either. Anybody who thinks the invasion of Iraq had much to do with the war on terrorism or 9/11 is kidding themselves.

alex627
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Joined: Oct 2004

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12/21, 06:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
like i said

The full version will be available for download days after release. I didn't condone software piracy. I said it was retared to take your customers and developers to court. Typical level of American idiocy.

Fighting for your country? I didn't ask you to. BTW: that's what you PAID to do. And your "fighting" for oil Mr. Mercenary. Or Christian Crusader or whatever...

alex627
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Joined: Oct 2004

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12/21, 06:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yo mqalma

They are not in my prayers. I don't pray. I think.

What did I say that supported terrorists you freaking idiots are all the same!! This country is going down the toilet and you people talk about terrorism as if it just started 3 years ago.

A country full of stupid rednecks. hehe I love you guys.

Oh and I think that most software should be shareware. And you will never get rid of piracy just like you will never get rid of terrorism. If you dolt's would deal with the causes of a problem instead of the symptoms maybe the world would be a better place. But no just keep praying. It'll happen. God likes you better than them.

pliny
Mac Elite

Joined: Apr 2001

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12/21, 06:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
message

i hope Apple gets the asswipes who post tiger and other apple stuff on carracho and then request that you pay them for downloading it, those people are scum and have ruined carracho and other filesharing stuff.

as for people posting that they are in Iraq, um, if that is so, shouldn't you be doing something other than posting on here?

LouZer
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Joined: Nov 2000

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12/21, 08:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: ewww

Apple is now suing members of the development community who posted beta software on an easy target (bit torrent). How petty....What is the point of targeting the very people who are fighting to keep Apple alive?

Well, based on that philosophy, Apple shouldn't even bother trying to sell OS X. They should just give it away, because, well, someone's going to post it anyway, and, h***, the people stealing it are the one's trying to keep apple alive! Yeah, that's it. If it weren't for us users who steal OS X, there'd be no market for this stuff. Apple would be so far down a hole not even Sun would buy them.

BTW, can we take the same argument and push it further? Shouldn't it be OK for someone to steal a boatload of Apple computers and give them to other people? I mean, its kind of the same right? Who's with me!

(On a serious note, how exactly is someone who breaks their NDA and posts beta software for others to download "fighting to keep apple alive"? I mean, are there a slew of developers out there who can't afford the $500 it costs to get the beta releases but are on the brink of offering kick-a** software that requires 10.4 features? Are these distributers actually the people behind current critical software for Macs which, without, the Macintosh would shrivel and die a quick but painful death, and as such, by suing them, has caused this critical software to go unfinished? I was under the impression the losers who post up beta software just do it because it makes them feel like "real men", they can feel they're 'on the inside', and must let people know that. You know, people basically overcompensating for the fact they'd have no friends if it weren't for the fact they've got this inside channel to some software (yeah, I could've gone with the whole "overcompensating for having an inadequate male organ, but that's so obvious in these cases, I didn't think it really needed to be mentioned)

Please, explain this whole "fighting to keep apple alive" comment).

FireWire
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 1999

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12/21, 09:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: re: ewwww

" I mean, are there a slew of developers out there who can't afford the $500 it costs to get the beta releases".

Yes, me. Because I'm a student! 500$ is a lot of money for someone who just want to play with new technology and learn new things along the way. I would love to run Tiger on my machine but unfortunately I cannot affort the sticker price.

I don't need technical support, I don't need lots of tools, I just want to try it and develop a few things before it's released. It's not harming anyone!

Pirating a beta and pirating a Final release are two different things. Beta tend to crash and be unfriendly. It's just to TRY. Not paying for final software is just that.. Not paying!

Beside, people who distribute betas are not the same people that distributes real software.. anyone can rip a CD/DVD once it's available!

Detrius
Professional Poster

Joined: Apr 2001

0

12/21, 09:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: like i said

Alex, the point isn't whether or not people broke the law. The point isn't whether people paid money to have access to the prerelease software.

The argument isn't over whether the software is beta (and therefore buggy) or release (and therefore stable). The problem with pirating this ALPHA version of Tiger is that the word gets out what Apple is adding into OS X. Perhaps there are freaking huge features that Apple wants to add to Tiger that it can't get properly tested because these features would give away another product.

The real issue is secrecy. This software is not done. There should be absolutely no articles written about how well it works or how well it does not work. Apple should have the ability to add big features to these versions (which are supposed to be 100% private) without the word getting out. If Apple sues a couple of people now, then when they actually start putting in the juicy stuff in a few months, no one will know because no one will be dumb enough to be the person to spill the beans and get sued. This gives Apple a chance to PROPERLY debug the software before it gets released to be devoured by the media. As much as I like the idea of knowing what is coming soon, I would much rather find out the moment the product is available.

It's much BETTER for Apple to sue these people and get some privacy so they can give VERY short notice before releasing HUGE product changes.

e.g. Apple will never make it big in the corporate environment until they release a thin client... but this involves major changes to the OS that people need to know about to test. However, this is a market where Apple can't afford to have glitches in a first release. That would permanently taint their image.

Detrius
Professional Poster

Joined: Apr 2001

0

12/21, 09:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
One more for Alex

>They are not in my prayers. I don't pray. I think.

Dude, you're never going to convert people like that. You just make the rest of us Agnostics/Athiests look bad when you try to rub into someone's face that you think they are silly for believing in a higher being.

Just keep in mind how silly they look to you when they assume a god exists. That's how silly you look when you assume a god doesn't.

The bottom line is that there is no true evidence to support either claim. Anyone who takes the approach that either is correct runs the risk of becoming extremely closed minded.

marzetta7
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2003

0

12/22, 12:37am | report spam | close Reply |
alex627

Apple is now suing members of the development community who posted beta software on an easy target bit torrent). How petty. Kind of like the USA attacking Iraq.

No, what is petty is you bringing the subject of the our great nation, the U.S.A., and Iraq into a subject that deals with Apple and three anonymous, pirating-prone losers. Law is law, you break it, you deal with the consequences. It's called responsibility, care to take on some?

The full version will be available for download days after release. I didn't condone software piracy. I said it was retared to take your customers and developers to court. Typical level of American idiocy.

I didn't realize that taking to court those who are RESPONSIBLE for breaking the law in accordance to the developer agreement is the "typical level of American idiocy." In America, we call that a consequence, you know, something that results in one's own CHOICE of action. In this case, the choice of three misguided individuals who believed they could get away with redistributing a beta release of OS X.

Fighting for your country? I didn't ask you to. BTW: that's what you PAID to do. And your "fighting" for oil Mr. Mercenary. Or Christian Crusader or whatever...

No one said that you asked him to fight for America, but I assure you he does it out of loyal service for his country and probably many other reasons that have nothing to do with the old stereo-typical c*** you spew about oil, being a mercenary, or a Christian crusader. My advice, get off your couch and stop sippin on the kool-aid provided by a high school drop out, a.k.a. Michael Moore.

Oh and I think that most software should be shareware. And you will never get rid of piracy just like you will never get rid of terrorism. If you dolt's would deal with the causes of a problem instead of the symptoms maybe the world would be a better place. But no just keep praying. It'll happen. God likes you better than them.

I take it you're not American. Just a hunch when you throw around words like "dolt's." I'm not sure where all your animosity comes from, but let me tell you that you follow a logic I've seen in many people. The whole if it exists, make it the rule, phenomenon. In other words, if terrorism exists, let it be, let it happen, or condone it through inaction. The same can be said with software piracy,...it happens man, just let it take it's course! Great logic (dripping sarcasm). That type of mentality can be directly attributed to the lack of guess what?....You got it, responsibility. Following your logic, I wouldn't be at all suprised if you were in favor of legalizing drugs, legalizing crime, pornography, etc. because frankly we can't completely get rid of it. Now how great would the world be, following your logic? Let's PRAY your not holding any type of public office, that's all I can say.

marzetta7
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2003

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12/22, 12:42am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: One more for Alex

The bottom line is that there is no true evidence to support either claim. Anyone who takes the approach that either is correct runs the risk of becoming extremely closed minded.

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement from a philosophical standpoint concerning truth. The above statement is from a previous post from Detrius, and touches on the subject of truth. I for one think that truth is absolute, not relative or based upon man's perception as you allude it to being. Now, while I think that absolute truth exists and is correct, I don't share in the mindset that if one thinks this way, means they are closed minded either. And that goes for those whose beliefs are more geared toward secular humanism too. Anyways, felt like I needed to respectfully disagree with the above statement.

Anyways, back to Apple. You have three individuals who violated a developer agreement with Apple and therefore now have to face the consequences of such action. They are getting what they deserve, how much simpler can you get.

ScottEllsworth
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2001

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12/22, 01:39am | report spam | close Reply |
You don't need Tiger

In response to:
>" I mean, are there a slew of developers out there who can't afford the
>$500 it costs to get the beta releases".

> Yes, me. Because I'm a student! 500$ is a lot of money for someone
> who just want to play with new technology and learn new things
> along the way. I would love to run Tiger on my machine but
> unfortunately I cannot affort the sticker price.

Then why not wait four months until it ships? At this point, it is a beta, it has missing features, and it has things that just do not work right. If everything worked, they would ship it. They are now looking for feedback from the developers that matter most - those working on products that are going to need updating for 10.4.

If you are experimenting and learning things, why not focus on the current shipping version? The tools are free, and there is a lot of interesting stuff in there. Further, if what you write has relevance for people, or has commercial value, you can probably get the needed $500 for a membership, or a seed key.

A developer who cannot afford the $500 for a seed key, and who cannot convince someone who can to share a seed key, is unlikely to perform that function of testing and feedback, because they are likely too shy of resources to spend serious time developing something that requires Tiger.

I understand your argument that a student developer has time but no money. Still, if you are working on useful code, you should be able to find some developer willing to share a seed key. If nothing else, try hitting up professors. Not only does it provide a bit more credibility, it also provides continuity.

Scott

ApeInTheShell
Senior User

Joined: Nov 2002

0

12/22, 04:00am | report spam | close Reply |
Random Reply

Actually, the consequences of distributing Mac OS X Tiger are far worse in that a person will not be allowed to purchase anything Apple Computer made(you'll have to look at the specifics)Get a job and do some chores and you'll have $500 in no time. Apple was justified. End of argument.

To your philosophical discussion:
"Unless you assume a God, the question of life's purpose is meaningless" -Bertrand Russel athiest

Which I think is true and why philosophers can't figure out anything "L"

FireWire
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 1999

0

12/22, 04:03am | report spam | close Reply |
re: don't need tiger

that's true, I don't need Tiger. But it would be useful to have it. For 500$ I could have it. I understand that they need to control access (I'm a registered ADC student member) but why can't they do separate pricing?

For 500$ they don't just ship you some CDs: they're actually giving you support (even one-on-one), documentation, hardware discount, full ADC Select membership, etc.

They could sell just the OS, without any guarantee or support, for people that just want to have a glimpse of the future and be ready at the same time as the technology become available.

z10n
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2003

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12/22, 10:46am | report spam | close Reply |
Let me clear this up

Regarding stealing software.

People need to learn a key word with regard to anything involving money: VALUE. People who steal obviously don't value what they steal, because they are not willing to pay any money for it. Money is just an abstraction which equals the perceived value of something. When you work for an employer and you contribute yourself, you're paid for that contribution, because it has value to the employer. Similarly, when you buy a product, what you do is hand over money, and for your money you obtain the value you of that product.

If you don't value others' contributions, then you obviously don't value your own contributions. Because it's the contribution that creates the value. You are paid because you contribute. (It's obvious enough that people and their efforts are of value, otherwise people wouldn't go to all the trouble to pirate things.)

The difficulty with software compared to other products is that often times, pieces of the software have value to the person and other pieces do not, depending upon what features they use the most often. If I pirate a program, and I don't use it at all, they I have no problem with that because I didn't gain any value from the thing I pirated. Products have fixed prices because the seller has no way of knowing the amount of absolute value that any given person is going to get from their product (value is a perception and depends on the person). So they just fix the price at their best guess, depending upon what the market will allow. "A lot", or "a little" amount of money for something is purely the perception of the person intending to buy, depending upon what value they believe that product will give to them.

If however if I pirate something and use it a lot, I'm getting value from that product, and value by definition is worth something (namely money). This is why people often times break down and pay for the software that they use the most often. They understand that the program is bringing them value, and thus feel compelled to compensate the author.

(On a side note, there's a reason why pirating games is so much more devistating then pirating other programs. Once you finish the game, the game ceases to have any value for you, so you no longer feel the need to pay for it. Other software has ONGOING value for you, so eventually you'll remind yourself to pay for it.)

One conclusion that can be made from this is that since value is a perception, "stealing" is also a perception. People are different, so there is no way of knowing what amount of value a particular person is going to obtain from something. The "rules" say you should pay the ticketed price (what the author thinks is the value of the product), but in reality, if you're not getting any value from the thing, then it's not worth any money. Only you can make the judgement if something is worth enough to pay what the au

z10n
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Joined: Oct 2003

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12/22, 10:48am | report spam | close Reply |
Clear this up, part 2

Only you can make the judgement if something is worth enough to pay what the author thinks is the monitary value of the thing.

For the anti-pirates, the lesson is: "Don't judge the degree of value that other people are getting from the things they acquire, because value is relative. Just because you would get a lot of value from something doesn't mean others will."

For the pirates, the lesson is: "Realize that whenever you are getting value from something, that value is worth money. The author is making an assertation that their program will give you a certain value, and that is how they set the price. If that worth resonates with you, then pay for it, because it brings you value."

z10n
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2003

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12/22, 11:06am | report spam | close Reply |
A few more things

Anything consumer-oriented, where you use the thing one time, will have the most problems with piracy. For example, I can't "demo" a movie on my computer to figure out what kind of value it will bring me before I pay to watch it in a theater. Once I've watched it, the value I've obtained from it is over, and I'm not likely not going to be interested in contributing money.

Another interesting effect is any warez distibution sites. These sites don't get value from what they distribute, what they get is value from their perception as being a great resource in the warez community. They are "selling" that perception. Sadly though, they normally aren't making any money off of it. (People unfortunately can't live off of the juicy altruistic feeling they get from contributing but not making anybody pay. Because even if they don't demand money for their contributions, other people that contribute to them DO demand money.)

jvputten
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

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12/22, 11:08am | report spam | close Reply |
Re; Clear this up

Hey z10n,

Spare me the overprivileged, middle-class mental masturbation. It doesn't do anything to explain why I stole baby formula for my kid after my job was outsourced.

"assertation"?

alex627
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2004

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12/22, 12:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
amen

"Hey z10n,

Spare me the overprivileged, middle-class mental masturbation. It doesn't do anything to explain why I stole baby formula for my kid after my job was outsourced.

"assertation"?"

Right on.

99% of all software including games has NO VALUE to me. I have purchased many Apple computers and a few releases of MacOS. I will not pay $100 a year for software that Apple steals from developers like Konfabulator. Just like Microsoft. I have never paid for a Microsoft product. It doesn't seem to have hurt their bottom line. You idiots.

Detrius
Professional Poster

Joined: Apr 2001

0

12/22, 08:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: amen

You aren't paying "$100 per year for software that Apple steals from developers..." What you are really paying $100 per major release for is the ability to use other software that requires the latest Apple OS. The value isn't just features like expos� and dashboard, it's newer drivers, newer software, a web browser that is up-to-date, and other little tweaks that make life easier.

You would feel very different about the value of 10.3 if you had to go back to 10.1.

And as far as my philosophical diatribe: I did not intend to say anything about absolute truth. There is no scientific evidence to support a god, and the only traceable religious evidence only is traceable back to people. My comment about being closed minded was just to say that you should always questions whatever it is you believe (including the stuff that seems scientifically sound). If you aren't open to other possibilities, you may miss the proof that your beliefs are wrong. This goes to everyone on all sides.

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