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iPod firmware update breaks Real's Harmony

updated 02:45 pm EST, Tue December 14, 2004

Apple vs. Real goes on

Apple has quietly so that songs purchased from RealNetworks' online music store will no longer play on some of the Mac maker's popular MP3 players, according to a report by CNET News.com: "The move could render tunes purchased by many iPod owners unplayable on their music players. For the last four months, RealNetworks has marketed its music store as the only Apple rival compatible with the iPod, following the company's discovery of a way to let its customers play their downloaded tunes on Apple's MP3 player." Apple had previously warned users of the possibility that RealNetworks' "hacker tactics" may lead to problems, declaring that Harmony-based songs--those created with RealNetworks' technology--would likely "cease to work with current and future iPods." The report says that Apple confirmed that the software released with its Photo iPod will not play music purchased from RealNetworks' music store.

by MacNN Staff

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zac4mac
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 1999

0

12/14, 02:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
hahahahahahahahahaha

heheheheheheheheheheheh

Have a nice day Rob!

Z

ericdano
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2002

0

12/14, 02:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
Merry Xmas Rob

Merry Xmas Rob. Oh, and be nice answering all those questions why Real purchases don't work on iPods anymore.

gadgetgav
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2004

0

12/14, 03:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
Fizzled out

So much for their ".org" website too... Nothing new there since early Sept and it wasn't news anyway. I always thought it was funny that it was supposed to be a grass roots uprising .org site and the title was "freedom of music choice is what YOU want" not "we" you notice..!
The sruvey they commissioned to back up their reasons for hacking the ipod didn't even support their position and was never formally published.
RIP Harmony.

Faceplant
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2003

0

12/14, 03:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
Well...

In spite of the fact that there are now some songs I cannot play, the update HAS made my iPod just a bit snappier, I am certain.

ronjamin
Baninated

Joined: May 2002

0

12/14, 03:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bwoohaaa

Spankings for Real. Cut a deal with Apple and quit being a B*****.

gadgetgav
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2004

0

12/14, 03:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
No one cares

They got about 2,500 signatures on their online petition... out of more then 5 million iPods sold that's 0.05%
hahaha

horvatic
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2002

0

12/14, 03:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Happy New Year Rob!

Happy New Year Rob! Hacking others will just get the door slammed in your face! That was a real dumb stunt to pull anyway.

Sebastien
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Apr 2000

0

12/14, 03:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
And so it begins

Sure, Apple can perhaps decide what its player should do, but iPod users COULD play other songs format as THE USER CHOOSES (it is, afterall, the users' own iPods, so they should be able to use it how they wish), but now that Apple has purposely made it so users CAN'T use their (updated) iPods the way THE USER WANTS, and I don't see how anyone can defend apple on this.

Except of course for the usual zealots, which I'm sure we'll hear from real soon now...

This idea that a company says you can't use the product you bought the way you want it sure looks like the beginnings of monopoly tactics.

TheBum
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2001

0

12/14, 04:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Oh, really...

"but now that Apple has purposely made it so users CAN'T use their (updated) iPods the way THE USER WANTS"

Hmm...I WANT to play my existing MP3s and they still work fine. I can go buy the CD for other music I WANT that's not available on iTMS and rip it as an MP3 and it works.

Besides, who's to say that Apple did it on purpose (and I'm not saying that they didn't)? I remember back in the old Amiga days when programmers would use reserved fields in the API to store their application's data. More often than not, the app would break on the next OS update (and, just as likely, the OS would crash) because those fields were being actively used. I don't see where Harmony is any different.

If you really want to blame somebody, blame the record companies. They're the ones driving this whole DRM mess.

discotronic
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 2003

0

12/14, 04:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bad PR for both

I don't believe that Real should be allowed to hack something in order to get their way. If Apple doesn't want to license their technology for free that is there choice. There will come a time when they may do it but until then. it is what it is and Real will just have to suck it up.

People know that the iPod only works (legally) with iTunes. If they want to use other services they should by a Dell or other brand player. Apple warned that in a future firmware update that Harmony may not work. If people are not able to play their songs because they downloaded them from Real it is their own fault. It isn't like Apple didn't warn them.

I really believe that both companies are in the wrong (to a certain extent) with this one. I don't believe that Apple should stop a person from using their iPod with any service they want. Having a choice is better for the consumer. On the other hand Apple is out to make money plain and simple. Can anyone really blame them for what they did with the firmware?

If someone really wanted to use another service they could. Just download the music, burn it to a CD, and then put it back in iTunes. It's the long way around but it works.

redwood
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2003

0

12/14, 05:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
Total misconceptions

First off, nothing was HACKED. Real's technology doesn't make any changes to Apple's Hardware.

Secondly, the ipod belongs to the owner who paid for the device. Not to Apple, not to god. So, if you want to play hackysack with your ipod or whether you want to load Real content on it or whether you want to store our Microsoft XP home directory on there, you should be able to do whatever you want to do.

Finally, to the commentator that was complaining about "freedom of music choice is what YOU want" versus what "WE" want, I'd point that person to the Devo lyric from which this was taken, with Devo's permission. It goes "freedom of choice is what you want..." .... "freedom of choice is what you got."

Please all, be a little more rigorous in your online commentary. Thank you.

medmuse
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2002

0

12/14, 05:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ummm....

'First off, nothing was HACKED. Real's technology doesn't make any changes to Apple's Hardware.'
---The code was hacked.

"Secondly, the ipod belongs to the owner who paid for the device. Not to Apple, not to god. So, if you want to play hackysack with your ipod or whether you want to load Real content on it or whether you want to store our Microsoft XP home directory on there, you should be able to do whatever you want to do."

---Absolutely right. Go right ahead. Write your own software and make your iPod compatible with Sun 3D imaging. No one is holding you back. Just don't tell Apple that they "have to" follow some losing business plan and write that software for you.

ender
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 1999

0

12/14, 06:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
Illegal?

I am typically an Apple defender, mostly because of the misconceptions that are out there. However, I do not recall any evidence that they broke any laws when developing Harmony. You are allowed to reverse engineer for compatibility purposes. IF in fact no laws were broken, and IF [in the future] Apple is determined to be a monopoly with regards to portable music players (90% of the hard disk market, I think), it could then be argued that Apple illegally used its monopoly to harm others.

That 2nd "if" is a pretty big one, but something to be careful of nonetheless.

Me�vv
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2001

0

12/14, 06:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Short-term thinking

Why not just cut a deal? In a few years there will be Chinese music players for half the price and with twice the features compared to the future iPods. That is where the copmetition will be. RealMedia is no serious threat, with or without Harmony.

johnmccaig
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2004

0

12/14, 06:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
bah

why doesn't my CD player play my 8 tracks anymore?

FireWire
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 1999

0

12/14, 07:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: illegal?

"You are allowed to reverse engineer for compatibility purposes." It would be logical. Same for educational purposes.. Unfortunately, somebody out of his mind introduced the DMCA, which basically prohibits you from messing at all with any copyrighted material or to circumvent any DRM. Even for yourself, even for compatibility (ask the poor student who wrote DeCSS to watch LEGAL DVD on his Linux box).

I think, however, that Apple is right in this case. For example, remember the yellow tip adaptor required to plug the AC/DC converter into a Sony discman? It was made FOR Sony BY Sony. You couldn't just buy any universal plug. Some would fit, but Sony could have changed it's method and used a bigger, green connector and people would have lost their investment in an adaptor.

Apple gave plenty of warning that competitor's files weren't welcome on the iPod and that the compatibility could break at any moment. Real went ahead anyway...

Beside, I would LOVE if Apple were to publish the I/O protocol used in the iPod so thousands of people could design USEFUL accessories to really fit THEIR lifestyle! :-) Personally, I would like to install one in my car and feel it really belongs there: complete with steering-wheel controls and maybe a way to input text with a keyboard for searching! *without hacking and voiding any warranty* :P

msuper69
Mac Elite

Joined: Jan 2000

0

12/14, 07:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
Harmony=no Mac Support

It's a bit ironic since Real's Harmony music service doesn't support Mac users who might want to try an alternative to the iTMS.

scotty321
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 1999

0

12/14, 08:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple loses

This is NOT good for Apple. I have no idea why Steve Jobs hasn't learned even ONE lesson from the Mac vs. PC wars years ago. Apple could dominate the entire market if they simply licensed their FairPlay technology, instead of trying to play bully. Do they really think that all theo ther companies in the world are gonna roll over & play dead just because Apple has declared that it's format is CLOSED? No. Everyone else has already banded together against Apple, and Apple WILL LOSE once again. This is Steve Jobs' lunacy & arrogance once again -- and it will come back to bite him (and us) in the a** yet again.

hardcat1970
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: May 2000

0

12/14, 08:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:apple loses

"This is NOT good for Apple. I have no idea why Steve Jobs hasn't learned even ONE lesson from the Mac vs. PC wars years ago. Apple could dominate the entire market if they simply licensed their FairPlay technology, instead of trying to play bully. Do they really think that all theo ther companies in the world are gonna roll over & play dead just because Apple has declared that it's format is CLOSED? No. Everyone else has already banded together against Apple, and Apple WILL LOSE once again. This is Steve Jobs' lunacy & arrogance once again -- and it will come back to bite him (and us) in the a** yet again."

Because apple always see itself a hardware company.

Sebastien
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Apr 2000

0

12/14, 08:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Ummm....

"Absolutely right. Go right ahead. Write your own software and make your iPod compatible with Sun 3D imaging. No one is holding you back."

Which is exactly what Real did for its users.

"Just don't tell Apple that they "have to" follow some losing business plan and write that software for you."

I don't see anyone here saying that. But what apple basically says with this is: "Wow, greak little hack; you found an extra personal use for our product (which you bought), but, we don't like how you're using our product (which _you bought_), so we're silently gonna change it, so that you don't notice, and that will you stop from using our product (which YOU BOUGHT) in a way we don't like."

Last I heard, you owned and were allowed to do whatever you wanted with what you bought; it wasn't a license that you bought.

Image GM telling you which tires or turbo kit you could and could not use on your GM vehicle. Oh yes, the usual zealots will say 'you cannot compare cars with computers! whaaaa!', but this argument is _just_ _as_ _valid_.

vander
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2000

0

12/14, 09:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
Car analogy

"Music" is to "gas" as "DRM" is to "key".

Try starting your car with your house key or even a key from a different car manufacturer.

Apple said "You can only use the key we provide." Real copied the key. Apple reiterated "You can only use the key we provide."

ArizonaJoe
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2004

0

12/14, 09:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
I'm going to punish Appl

...by not buying an iPod. No freaking way I'm giving my money to such creeps. Rio Carbon here I come.

abe2
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2004

0

12/14, 09:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Car analogy

You can't spell "analogy" without "anal"

'nuff said!

throatmonster
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

12/14, 09:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Idiots

If Apple makes money selling iPods, but doesn't make much money selling the music (to paraphrase statements from Steve Jobs), Why is Apple doing this? b****-slapping other companies like they are already the grandaddy pimp? They aren't. And no matter how big iPod and iTMS is right now, it can all go away. Hostility and aggression towards the rest of the industry players will turn out to be nothing more than a suicide bomb.

scotty321
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 1999

0

12/15, 12:10am | report spam | close Reply |
Car analogy is stupid

The car analogy is ridiculous, because every single car runs on the exact same gas: some sort of unleaded gas that's been designed to run in every single car. Even though there's different brands of gas, I know that I can pull my car into ANY gas station in the world -- IN THE WORLD! -- and my car will be able to get gas from it.

Think about if this were home videos: Do you think people would stand for having 2 or 3 different types of video formats that all required different types of players? OF COURSE NOT. That's why Beta lost to VHS. Sony made Beta proprietary, while everyone else in the world rallied around the VHS because every company could "get a piece" of the VHS action financially.

Now think about it: The music industry & the computer industry is not about ONE COMPANY. Apple can't control the entire industry. They need to PLAY FAIR with other companies, and they're NOT doing that. The eventual standard will be Windows Media Player format, but ONLY BECAUSE Apple's arrogance has once again locked them out of the marketplace. You won't see this happen this year, but you will definitely see this in the years to come.

There is absolutely NO WAY that DOZENS UPON DOZENS of companies are going to lie down and let Apple Computer bully them around like this.

There is absolutely NO WAY that DOZENS UPON DOZENS of companies are going to LOSE OUT FINANCIALLY by sitting back and letting Apple have all the profits in this nascent industry.

Apple is sooooooo stupid right now, it's ridiculous. They COULD get a lock on this entire market, simply by opening up their DRM.

h***, this even affects us Mac users now! I can't use any of my purchased songs in my beautiful SlimDevice player; I can't use any of my purchased songs in my TiVo. And vice-versa: I can't buy online music from ANYWHERE except iTunes.

Don't you see that WE THE CONSUMER are the ultimate loser here, particularly if you're like me and you've already bought an iPod: We have BOUGHT INTO Apple's closed-mindedness.

And all these years, I have been stupidly saying that MICROSOFT was the bully. Boy was I wrong. All these years, Microsoft has been allowing EVERYBODY to get in on the action, making friends with everybody along the way.

APPLE IS THE REAL ENEMY, the company that has DENIED people choice all along! Try to burn a DVD in iDVD without an Apple-branded SuperDrive. Try to use an Airport Express to extend a non-Airport wireless network. Try to export your mail out of Apple Mail into another program. Try to export your bookmarks out of Safari into another browser. APPLE HAS DENIED US CHOICE ALL ALONG!

Microsoft is the only one playing fair here!

ender
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 1999

0

12/15, 12:25am | report spam | close Reply |
re: illegal?

"rtunately, somebody out of his mind introduced the DMCA, which basically prohibits you from messing at all with any copyrighted material or to circumvent any DRM."

I will say it again, there is NO evidence that Real did anything illegal. DCMA makes it illegal to circumvent DRM. The DRM is on the MUSIC, not the iPod. The iPod just decodes it. Real did NOT circumvent Apple's music (ie, they don't enable other players to play iTMS songs). Therefore, they are not "messing at all with any copyrighted material" and do not appear to be violating DCMA.

"I would like to install one in my car and feel it really belongs there: complete with steering-wheel controls"

Umm, OK. Here are two examples that do exactly what you are asking for. No warranty violations, no copyright violations.

http://monstercable.com/press/press_result.asp?pr=2004_11_icruze.asp

http://www.densionusa.com/x/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=375&Itemid=109

LouZer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

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12/15, 12:43am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: and so it begins

Sure, Apple can perhaps decide what its player should do, but iPod users COULD play other songs format as THE USER CHOOSES (it is, afterall, the users' own iPods, so they should be able to use it how they wish), but now that Apple has purposely made it so users CAN'T use their (updated) iPods the way THE USER WANTS, and I don't see how anyone can defend apple on this.

Hey, you can use your iPod any way you want. But if you update it (and if it was working, why did you update it?), that's your perogative too. If you know Harmony is a hack, you'd be stupid to update the ipod software, knowing apple might block the hack.

And can't you just re-install the original OS back on the iPod?

LouZer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

0

12/15, 12:50am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: car analogy

APPLE IS THE REAL ENEMY, the company that has DENIED people choice all along! Try to burn a DVD in iDVD without an Apple-branded SuperDrive. Try to use an Airport Express to extend a non-Airport wireless network. Try to export your mail out of Apple Mail into another program. Try to export your bookmarks out of Safari into another browser. APPLE HAS DENIED US CHOICE ALL ALONG!

Ooh, yes, the 'good' people at MS are our friends!

BTW, iDVD and the other iLife apps were created/distributed with new Macs as an added benefit (you know, a selling point - you get movie software with your mac so you can make movies and burn DVDs). Adding support for non-Apple drives causes increased support and development costs, without driving any sales. That's why they block external drives. (Again, you know, its like the iTMS, the software is there to sell hardware, not just sell some dickass $50 software package).

Simon
Posting Junkie

Joined: Nov 2000

0

12/15, 04:28am | report spam | close Reply |
Summing it up...

[b]Re: Apple bullying customers[/b]
This is baloney as LouZer already pointed out. If the user wants Real Harmony on his iPod, he can have it. But if he updates the firmware with something Apple wrote, he will have to put up with that code's limitations. People are free to chose between Harmony and new Firmware. Apple is being absolutely fair here.

[b]Re: Apple not supporting Harmony or licensing FairPlay[/b]
I don't understand Apple's strategy here. Basically Apple wants to be a hardware company and sell as many iPods as they can. They stated several times that the iTMS is just a way to increase iPod sales, but it's not a purpose in itself. So, if this is Apple's POV, why would they not want other stores selling songs that run on the iPod? They could care less, since they are losing no money (the iTMS barely makes profit compared to iPod sales) and the iPod is being supported by a wider community.

IMHO if Apple just wants to sell as many iPods as possible, they should make sure the iPod plays as many formats as possible (AAC, MP3, OggVorbis, WMA, etc.) and they should be glad if somebody wants to license FairPlay and sell songs to iPods users thus offering customers another reason to buy an iPod. Apple's strength is ease of use and for MP3 players this should mean that the player plays everything and that iPod users don;t have to worry about formats. The iPod will just play it. That's true Apple-style simplicity.

[i]If the iPod can play every format around, people will have no reason to buy any other player![/i]

Simon
Posting Junkie

Joined: Nov 2000

0

12/15, 04:30am | report spam | close Reply |
Summing it up...

[posted again, sorry for s******* up the html tags]

Re: Apple bullying customers
This is baloney as LouZer already pointed out. If the user wants Real Harmony on his iPod, he can have it. But if he updates the firmware with something Apple wrote, he will have to put up with that code's limitations. People are free to chose between Harmony and new Firmware. Apple is being absolutely fair here.

Re: Apple not supporting Harmony or licensing FairPlay
I don't understand Apple's strategy here. Basically Apple wants to be a hardware company and sell as many iPods as they can. They stated several times that the iTMS is just a way to increase iPod sales, but it's not a purpose in itself. So, if this is Apple's POV, why would they not want other stores selling songs that run on the iPod? They could care less, since they are losing no money (the iTMS barely makes profit compared to iPod sales) and the iPod is being supported by a wider community.

IMHO if Apple just wants to sell as many iPods as possible, they should make sure the iPod plays as many formats as possible (AAC, MP3, OggVorbis, WMA, etc.) and they should be glad if somebody wants to license FairPlay and sell songs to iPods users thus offering customers another reason to buy an iPod. Apple's strength is ease of use and for MP3 players this should mean that the player plays everything and that iPod users don;t have to worry about formats. The iPod will just play it. That's true Apple-style simplicity.

If the iPod can play every format around, people will have no reason to buy any other player!

just a poster
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2004

0

12/15, 05:22am | report spam | close Reply |
It's really simple

Real needs to license FairPlay from Apple. That's how it works.

At this point, Glaser needs to decide if he wants to risk alienating his customers (after they purchased music from him for their iPods using Realplayer) or if he'll blame Apple and expect something for nothing out of them.

It's an IP dispute, folks. Apple is entitled to make money by 1) selling the iPod it developed 2) selling music through its iTunes music store that it developed and 3) licensing the technology it created to do so for third-parties at its terms, not the third-parties'.

Apple's a business not a charity and it owes Real nothing, especially since Real doesn't even offer a feature-complete RealPlayer product for MacOS X as it does for Windows. What's fair about Real trying to get in on Apple's iPod success - to Apple's profit detriment - while offering nothing in return in licensing or in MacOS X support?

Coincidentially, there is no guarantee that future WMA files will work on the current generation of non-iPod players because Microsoft can change its format or APIs anytime it chooses. It can choose to support a player or not and leave third-parties to develop their own drivers and interfaces. Which is exactly what Apple has done to great expense by making an iTunes app and music store for Windows so that iPod users could use an Apple product in Windows.

ERG
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2003

0

12/15, 05:47am | report spam | close Reply |
I completely agree..

with "Just a poster" and the many other guys who said something "logical" and not all the other "no-global-forum" style thoughts (?)

I know some "fake iPod user" will post here something against what I'm going to say, but I'll take the risk because I want to add some points anyway:

1) on a site devoted to the Mac I don't see any reason to complain about not being able to play music that can't be bought by MacUsers

2) if you want to be able to play any other format not supported by Apple Software you can always (without breaking any law, as has already been said) burn a CD with your legally bought music and then rip it into iTunes and sync

3) 90% of the music you can find on Real is available on iTMS too and at the same price (if not less), so I don't really see a productive discussion saying "I bought Apple HW but I don't want to buy the music they sell"; if this is really the point buy some real CD and stop complaining

Anyway Happy Xmas everyone

VR6
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2001

0

12/15, 08:14am | report spam | close Reply |
Moral vs commercial right

This debate seems to be about whether what Apple is doing is right. However it quickly becomes two debates, is what they are doing right from a commercial perspective (maximizing shareholder value) and is what they are doing right from a moral perspective (denying freedom of choice and access).

To summarize, I think three positions have been taken.
1) Apple can do no wrong
2) Apple's decision is a correct commercial decision
3) Apple's decision is immoral (commercially shortsighted) and will turn out to hurt them in the long run

The people who support point one assume that Apple is right and therefore conclude that, well, Apple is right. This is fanatcism and should be dismissed.

Those who concede that Apple has a right to act in its best interest even if that is against the best interests of purchasers of iPods or of Real, are perfectly within their rights to make such a claim.

However, I think it is the third group that presents the strongest argument. Record companies do not need to let Apple become the monopoly supplier of legally downloaded music. If Apple bullies them they could withdraw from the iTunes music store and throw their support behind a subsidized player/store combination controlled by the record industry. They would not need to do this though if Apple did not set up a situation in which it has monopolistic rights to intermediate between consumers and record companies. Apple was very smart to adopt non-proprietary industry standards (or to make their own inventions such as firewire into industry standards) in many fields. They are being very shortsighted by not, in the very least, licensing their drm technology to other companies who want to sell music downloads. Apple's current strategy seems predicated on the assumption that record companies are stupid enough to get corralled in to a prison and never find a way to break out. While these companies may not have been lightning fast to respond to the downloading music phenomenon, they did respond, and in every way they could think of. They won't lay down forever.

hayesk
Professional Poster

Joined: Sep 1999

0

12/15, 08:34am | report spam | close Reply |
YOu just don't get it.

Wow, you anti-Apple zealots don't get it.

If Apple says, "good for you Real, now we'll sell more iPods" they are now responsible for supporting Real's stuff. Suppose Real relases crappy sounding music or music that only works on a few iPod models but crashes others. People are going to cry to Apple to "fix" their iPod. Apple now has to invest real money to support Real who they have no control over. Or worse, people buy other music players because they think it's the iPod that is the problem. Why should Apple put up with that just because Real wants to leech off the iPod's popularity?

Apple did the right thing. Apple is required to support anything and everything about the iPod that they say they will support. Nothing more.

Besides, Real has been s******* over Apple for years with their subpar Mac versions of their software because "the platform is not popular enough to warrant extra investment." Now the shoe is on the other foot and the hypocrites can't stand it.

Person Man
Professional Poster

Joined: Jun 2001

0

12/15, 09:00am | report spam | close Reply |
Let's say...

Let's say more music stores follow Real's lead and come out with their own versions of DRM'd files that will play on the iPod, all based on their own interpretation of the FairPlay format (which is what Real did).

Now Apple is responsible for supporting each and every one of those (broken) FairPlay variants? What is everyone smoking?

Apple WILL LICENSE FairPlay when they're good and ready (obviously, that time has not come yet, but IT WILL).

jypeterson
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2004

0

12/15, 09:16am | report spam | close Reply |
Yea!

I was wondering how long this would take to happen. The interesting point is that it took a month for anyone to notice. I guess that there are not a whole lot of iPod users buying songs on other services. Just look at the online sales numbers. Real will loose out in the market place. They don't have a good product, and they are not efficeient. This means that they will exit if Rob cannot turn things around. Frankly, I would rather have continued support for my iPod and iTunes songs, so I already made my choice for Apple, not some inferior mp3 player that may or may not work with my purchased songs on other services.

dav
Mac Elite

Joined: Dec 2000

0

12/15, 09:21am | report spam | close Reply |
immoral

"3) Apple's decision is immoral (commercially shortsighted) and will turn out to hurt them in the long run"

bill gates laughs at you.

jypeterson
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2004

0

12/15, 10:09am | report spam | close Reply |
Real's Warranty

Well, Real distanced itself even from their "Harmony" iPod users (if there are any) by its warranty. This is directly from Real's website. If you purchased music from Real to play on your iPod, and now you can't -- you can forget about a refund of your money. Real took it and won't give it back. Apple has warned consumers that music purchased from other music stores will not be supported at all, so it is not Apple's fault. Buyer beware!

DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY
The services, information or data (collectively, "Information") made available at the Real Web site are provided "AS IS", without warranties of any kind. Real expressly disclaims any representations and warranties, including without limitation, the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose. Real shall have absolutely no liability in connection with the services including without limitation, any liability for damage to your computer hardware, data, information, Materials and business resulting from the Information or the lack of information available on the Real Web site. Real shall have no liability for:

1. Any loss or injury caused, in whole or in part, by its actions, omissions, or negligence, or for contingencies beyond its control, in procuring, compiling, or delivering the Information;
2. Any errors, omissions, or inaccuracies in the Information regardless of how caused, or delays or interruptions in delivery of the Information; or
3. Any decision made or action taken or not taken in reliance upon the Information furnished hereunder.

Real makes no warranty, representation or guaranty as to the content, sequence, accuracy, timeliness or completeness of the Information or that the Information may be relied upon for any reason. Real makes no warranty, representation or guaranty that the Information will be uninterrupted or error free or that any defects can be corrected. For purposes of this section, "Real" shall include RealNetworks, Inc., and its divisions, subsidiaries, successors, parent companies, and their employees, partners, principals, agents and representatives, and any third-party providers or sources of information or data.

ERG
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2003

0

12/15, 10:38am | report spam | close Reply |
I really don't get..

Why some people ever think (I hope, before typing it..) BULLSHITS like these one:

"Record companies do not need to let Apple become the monopoly supplier of legally downloaded music"

MONOPOLY? From a company that has a small HW market share and everybody here complain their mainstream "music" product doesn't "play all the formats available"?

COME ON! It's the market (e.g. the people who shells the money out) that make decisions and, eventually, influences the technology (mostly for the Bad...): does someone remembers Windows 1 to rel 3 (or even the actual XP...)?
Shouldn't have been pushed to the dump?
And who remember the Newton? Now we all are using Palm devices doin' less for about the same price just because "the market" said so...

If any of you don't like ITMS just go elsewhere (you're still free: neither M$ nor Metallica hasn't been able to get "monopoly" into music business) and stop annoying a "Mac users" forums

gadgetgav
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2004

0

12/15, 12:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
Oh, the mighty Devo

How are we supposed to know that the HTML title "Freedom of choice is what you want" comes from a lyric by the " '80s music sensation Devo"...? No where on the Real site does it give credit for that line to them. There is a Q&A from Devo which is obviously thinly veiled PR statements from Real and who the heck are Devo anyway..? Why do I care what an '80s music sensation thinks of 21st century technology..?

As for the car analogy, GM **DO** tell you what accessories you can use on your car. Have you ever read the disclaimers in car manual..? Even using your cell phone in the car will void the warranty if you believe what the manufacturers say.

kloda
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 1999

0

12/15, 12:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Freedom and Morality

Maybe it's me but I just don't get how commercial shortsightedness could be deemed immoral. It was a marketing decision and whether or not it was shortsighted is a matter of opinion.

Real wants you to have freedom of choice so long as you use their files on an iPod that is hacked with their software and you use a Windows PC, or Virtual PC, to access their music store.

Ditto for Microsoft.

But Apple is considered immoral for not sharing their format? I guess then, Ford is immoral for not allowing GM engines to fit in their cars.

iTMS exists to sell iPods. Steve Jobs and other Apple folks have said this in many interviews. Could iTMS exist on its own? I'm sure that's something the folks at Apple have thought about and continue to think about. Right now, it looks like iTMS is popular because of iPod but both have helped to evolve the means of getting music into the hands of consumers.

Additionally, when Real first announced their "revolution" Apple officials said that people should not be surprised if Real's hack didn't work in future versions of the iPod. Apple is not obligated to support the hack. Did they support the Mac OS 9 hacks in Mac OS X?

It's all about competition. If someone can build a better digital music player with a better format and music store to help sell that DMP, go for it.

Jingle Bell Rock, Baby!

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iPod firmware update breaks Real's Harmony

updated 02:45 pm EST, Tue December 14, 2004

Apple vs. Real goes on

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