toggle

AAPL Stock: 558.97 ( -6.35 )

MacNN News

Briefly: iTunes monopoly?, Apple overtime protest,...

updated 08:25 am EST, Mon December 13, 2004

Apple overtime protest

In Brief: Smith Barney analyst Richard Gardner expects Apple to .

by MacNN Staff

print

email

(17)

TAGS :

Apple

Share the Article

Facebook Twitter Delious Slash Dot Digg

Comments

dave a
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2002

0

12/13, 08:44am | report spam | close Reply |
Monopoly - rubbish!

"what is smart and legal for most companies, under law can retroactively be ruled monopolistic and illegal when a company is too successful." Well, that's clearly an ignorant, knee-jerk anti-government reference to Microsoft's monopoly suits. What that columnist is forgetting is that Microsoft very clearly broke the law, committed perjury multiple times, and used practices which are specifically called out as monopolistic. You don't get sued just for having majority share; you get sued for abusing your majority share to put others out of business. Otherwise there are lots of other businesses that would have been prosecuted. Apple's never used its leadership position with iTunes or the iPod to force others out of business...

bfalchuk
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2003

0

12/13, 09:20am | report spam | close Reply |
Blah

I don't think the success of the iPod can be attributed to locked out functionality, it is because it is just the best. People love how it looks and works, period. Same goes for the iTMS.

mjpaci
Forum Regular

Joined: Apr 2000

0

12/13, 10:04am | report spam | close Reply |
KAPO - Another usage

KAPO: Term used in the n*** concentration camps for a prisoner chosen by the SS to head a work gang made up of other prisoners

JeffHarris
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 1999

0

12/13, 10:12am | report spam | close Reply |
Idiotic Opinion Piece

Comparing Apple/iPod/iTMS to Microsoft is downright idiotic.

Apple sells a personal entertainment/file transfer device and offers a paid music download service which work together seamlessly. The iPod and iTMS support both Mac and Windows. It does not support some competing file formats: WMA, Ogg Vorbis, etc.

Microsoft sells products which are widely acknowledged to be unstable, be security threats and are expensive to purchase, support and maintain. Their OS is deemed necessary by many.

How Apple/iPod/iTMS even BEGIN to compare to a company which aggressively works to undermine and destroy competitors?

mjpaci
Forum Regular

Joined: Apr 2000

0

12/13, 10:46am | report spam | close Reply |
Disregard my last comment

I was googling KAPAO for a link to the article where I wouldn't have to register and typed in KAPO by accident and didn't proof. My apologies to anyone I may have offended.

--mike

mouseketter
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2004

0

12/13, 11:53am | report spam | close Reply |
He lost me at...

His nonsense rambling lost me at 3/4 of the way though his editorial piece when he says Microsoft doesn't control the price of the Windows OS.

huh?

Saying Apple has a monopoly with the iPod is kind of like saying Sony had a monopoly on portable personal cassette players with the Walkman.

Deal
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

0

12/13, 12:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple - Firefox

A pc writers point of view. Apple is dying, Apple is dying, Apple is dying, Apple is dying, oh wait, Apple is doing well, Sue Apple, Sue Apple, Sue Apple, Sue Apple...

Deal
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

0

12/13, 12:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
prev post in firefox

A pc writters pont of veiw. Aple is dieing, Aple is Dieing, Aple is Dieing,Aple is Dieing, oh wate, Aple is doing wel, Sew Aple, Sew Aple, Sew Aple, Sew Aple...

Come on Firefox, Where's the SPELL CHECK!

ArizonaJoe
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2004

0

12/13, 12:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Snobs

...are always aplenty on these lists. Now you're trying to rationalize the persecution of Microsoft for its success while rationalizing why Apple should be exempt from the very same antitrust persecution.

The very same (unjust) legal theories and arguments that were used against Microsoft are a danger to Apple. If Apple is ever sued or otherwise persecuted, the thugs who do so will use those same theories. Whether you think MS products are bad and inferior, and that Apple's are good and superior, is irrelevant to this issue. Courts do not assess a product's worth - they assess its market share.

I think the author is jumping the gun when he predicts suits in 2005. Apple will probably offer customers more flexibility long before anyone tries to sue them. Songs that you buy from ITMS are not very useful right now, and if Apple wants to make a real dent in the multi-billion dollar music market, they need to sell songs in a format people can use on devices other than iPods - and at higher bitrates.

I also think we can safely expect the MSN Music store to eventually have 20% of the market. With ITMS at 60-70% share, I don't think the antitrust thugs will have a cause of action. I think it needs to be 90% or so for a long time for them to have an interest.

ApeInTheShell
Senior User

Joined: Nov 2002

0

12/13, 12:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Boing!

Apple is not using exclusionary tactics. They made it clear from the beginning that iTMS was created to sell the iPod.
There are too many formats for the iPod to support. People want an easy way to load their music into their iPod.
You can easily buy songs from other stores with a verified credit card. Except most of these stores no longer sell the MP3 format.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

12/13, 01:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Snobs

...are always aplenty on these lists. Now you're trying to rationalize the persecution of Microsoft for its success while rationalizing why Apple should be exempt from the very same antitrust persecution.

The very same (unjust) legal theories and arguments that were used against Microsoft are a danger to Apple. If Apple is ever sued or otherwise persecuted, the thugs who do so will use those same theories. Whether you think MS products are bad and inferior, and that Apple's are good and superior, is irrelevant to this issue. Courts do not assess a product's worth - they assess its market share.

Those theories could be used against apple if Apple acts in the same way as MS/those theories.

But as another poster said. There is no law in the US that says a monopoly is illegal. Its how you act once you become a monopoly that can be considered illegal. MS was brought up by the DOJ (before bush came into office and switched the whole stance to "we don't want to hurt an american company") because MS was using its monopoly position to force computer makers to include IE with the system (later removing the 'forced' by making it 'part of the OS'), charging computer companies more for the Windows OS if they dared sell a computer with another OS on it, making software specifically so that would be incompatible with DrDOS, causing a fuss if computer makers tried to change the desktop/put other software on the system/etc., using lies/FUD to weaken Novell and other competitors, and a boatload of other stuff. And if that wasn't enough, their testimony, and esp. their demonstrations, in court were shown to either be bald-faced lies, spins on the truth, or tweaked to their own benefit. [One of my favorite examples was the video demo of how Windows would cause so much trouble if they were forced to remove IE, and in different shots of the screen, the desktop changed, showing the MS was using data from several different computers intermixed, like no one would notice.]

Apple will get in a problem if (a) they force MP3 players who they allow to support Fairplay to not support MS's or Real's formats or (b) force music shops to sell Fairplay content and none of the other formats,. But since Apple doesn't license Fairplay, they don't have a problem, yet (gov't can't force Apple to play with others if they don't want, but they can force them to play well nicely if they decide to play).

If Apple has an antitrust/monopoly suit coming against it next year, it won't be iPod or iTunes (unless some company's lawyers are stupid or grandstanding, trying to force an agreement), its going to come from their sales division. There's been lots of complaints about Apple Stores and the online Apple store getting stock before the retailers. If Apple doesn't play fair in that sense, they certainly have a lawsuit on their asses.

FireWire
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 1999

0

12/13, 03:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
wmv format

first, I think the first 3 subjects (flash ipod, ipod lawsuit and overtime) would have required a separate topic, as we now have to comment on everything in the same place, which will result in a few subjects "forgotten" along the way.

In the article about the lawsuit, the "journalist" suggests that "Apple will eventually have to support WMA or provide active help to online music retailers in offering iPod compatible music."

What kind of relationship do PC users have with this file format? First of all, it's a closed, proprietary format which prohibits you from doing anything with the file beside playing it at normal speed. For years, the FF/Rew buttons on the player have been disabled during playback, and I cannot even export the data in another format (like MP3, AIFF) without using another program to convert them.

What's wrong with an open format that anyone can use and edit? PC users should say NO to WMA and upgrade to a superior format...

I already hear some of you saying "another mac fan bashing MS". Think about it: WMA is a format designed by and for Windows (it's even called Windows Media Player for Mac), not a format meant to be used by Windows, Mac, Linux, BeOS, etc on a plethora of devices! AAC on the other hand, has been developed by the MPEG group (including Dolby, Sony, etc)

so why should Apple be forced by the law to cripple the quality of its product to accomodate a single file format obviously not meant to be read on another platform than Windows?

MPMoriarty
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Oct 2003

0

12/13, 05:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
Here's the real truth...

Apple is really successful with the iPod/iTunes/iTMS. Why? Because they are work really well. They are simplistic in design yet allow the user to do so much with so little effort.

But now that Apple is in a high place in the industry, other companies are mad that they can't cash in on it.

It's like yelling at Microsoft -- "hey, I can't run any Windows .exe programs on my Mac because it is proprietary to Microsoft. You're abusing your monopoly. I want to use your products, but don't want to run them on your operating system."

Apple has developed a closed solution that isn't forcing others to do anything or cause anyone to go out of business. Someone else can come out with a better digital music player, jukebox software, or online music store. But no one has. Every online music store is a cookie cutter version of the last.

Mike

ender
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 1999

0

12/13, 06:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Monopolies not illegal

Thank you 'testudo' for not making me have to type a long reply to 'ArizonaJoe'! Just because it's a monopoly doesn't make it illegal. But the previous post about MS making inferior products is also incorrect. There is no law against making c*** (until someone gets injured, then the liability lawyers will come a-knockin).

Besides, last time I checked, on-line music sales is barely a faction of a percentage of total sales. Until on-line sales reach a super-majority of ALL music sales would Apple need to worry about a lawsuit. And even then, they would probably have to dominate both the hard drive AND flash based markets and THEN take some action which is perceived as an illegal use of it's monopoly influence to harm competitors. I don't see any of this happening anytime soon.

(Of course, a case having no merits has never stopped some lawyer from trying to make a name for himself and a few million easy in settlement dollars from filing for a class action lawsuit...ah, the American way!)

MacScientist
Junior Member

Joined: Feb 2000

0

12/13, 09:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Snobs

Apple's iTMS is a retail operation. I have never heard of an antitrust lawsuit brought against a retail operation. It may have 70% of the market in legal music downloads, but it has no control at all of the product. Unlike retail giant Wal-Mart, Apple cannot make sweetheart deals with Chinese producers to put Americans producers out of business. IIRC, the total legal music download business accounts for something like 2% of total music sales. On the face of it, this market has tremendous upward potential. Rather than bitching and moaning about Apple, those complaining would do better to invent the better mousetrap. There are plenty mice to go around.

serpico
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2003

0

12/13, 09:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
facts used are wrong

The writer seems to be basing his argument for Apple being a monopoly on something that is simply wrong..... he is arguing that since Apple controls 90% of the hd based market and that ipods will only play songs from itunes it is unfair to all other music providers... this is wrong since Ipods can take music from most formats and play them.... but you need an ipod to play songs from the ITMS.... nothing about that indicates a monopoly if anything Apple is limiting its music sales to ipod owners....

Zaren
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

12/13, 10:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
not useful?

Songs that you buy from ITMS are not very useful right now

Yeah, not very useful... you can only play them on the most popular high-end mp3 player on the market, as well as on EVERY Macintosh and Windows computer sold in the last several years, and with a minimum of effort, they can be playable on EVERY mp3 player, portable or computer-based. Not very useful at all.

Show More Comments

Login Here

OR

toggle

Network Headlines

05/25	Third-gen iPad coming to Philippines...
05/25	Apple to integrate Baidu search into...
05/24	Apple submits surprise optical stylus...
05/24	Yahoo releases Axis 'visual search'...
05/24	Apple airs two new Siri commercials...

05/25	Apple to integrate Baidu search into...
05/25	Google picks up webOS Enyo team, Open...
05/24	Apple submits surprise optical stylus...
05/24	Yahoo releases Axis 'visual search'...
05/24	Google�s 7-inch tablet ships next month...

05/23	Google launches redesigned Search app...
05/22	Leaked next-gen iPod touch part hints...
05/22	Hulu Plus updates with iPad Retina...
05/22	TiVo Stream to push TV to iPhones,...
05/22	Hands on: TouchType case for iPad,...

03/02	Save $330 on refurb. 15.4-inch, 2.4GHz...
03/01	Pre-owned 8GB iPod touch 2G, drops...
02/29	$150 off Nikon Coolpix S80 Compact...
02/28	Plantronics BackBeat 903 Bluetooth...
02/27	Refurb. Seagate 1.5TB GoFlex Portable...

Most Popular

MacNN Sponsor

Recent Reviews

iHome iW2 AirPlay speaker

iHome generally isn't known as a luxury brand when it comes to audio, but it is prolific -- the company's docks and speakers are every ...

Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard Cover

One of the iPad's main weaknesses has always been productivity. It's not a question of apps; while it has taken a little time for a na ...

Logitech UE Air Speaker

If maybe a little more slowly than Apple would like, AirPlay is becoming a staple of the wireless speaker market for iOS devices. The ...

Most Commented

10 Most Discussed

Popular News

MacNN Marketplace