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Gates: 'probably' room for both iTunes, MSN Music

updated 03:10 pm EDT, Thu September 2, 2004

MSN music v iTunes redux

Executives at Apple continue to downplay the importance of both music subscriptions and portable video, according to a CNET News.com report that says Microsoft offers a (subscription, video content, etc.): "In that interview, Gates stressed that Microsoft's approach is to offer a variety of music services and digital players, but noted there is probably room in the market for both Apple- and Microsoft-based products. Apple focused much of its attack Thursday on the MSN Music store, rather than Microsoft's overall approach. 'The iTunes Music Store is currently selling over 16 million songs per month (a rate of 200 million songs per year),' the company said in a statement. 'How many songs will Microsoft's new online music store sell during its first month?'"

by MacNN Staff

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suhail
Senior User

Joined: Nov 1999

0

09/02, 04:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
MS

Yeh Microsoft is so cooool!
Pffff�

utopian
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2004

0

09/02, 04:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple better be careful

I've seen the Mac become a small part of what it could have been, if they only considered opening up things a bit. If they aren't careful, we'll see MS become the top content provider as well...
Just my 2 cents...
utopian

ethical_paul
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2002

0

09/02, 04:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
Thanks Lord Bill

For allowing that another company "probably" can hope to co-exist in whatever market-of-the-day you decide to take over. That's mighty white of you.

trevc
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2000

0

09/02, 05:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Microsoft Clout

Never under estimate the 'clout' that Microsoft has.

Obviously the iPod contributes to success of iTunes, but the rumor is that Microsoft is coming out with their own iPod killer. If they give half a million of them away, or plan on losing money on them for the first 5-10 years like they are with the XBox, how can any company compete?

Bottom line is they got DEEP pockets.

bigpoppa206
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2003

0

09/02, 05:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yeah...

and Microsoft was SO timely in getting connected to the Internet and look what they did to it. IE is a joke. Same thing will happen here. MS is not cool.

Okonomiyaki
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2003

0

09/02, 06:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
Famous Last Words

Isn't that basically the same thing Apple said when IBM entered the fledgeling PC market?

cmoney
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2000

0

09/02, 06:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Yeah...

Yeah, Microsoft was late to the party on the Internet, pointed its guns at Netscape, poured millions into that attack, released version after unrelenting version and took 90% of the browser market. IE may be a joke but it's still what 90% of the people are using. That Microsoft still has that market share after years of IE stagnation speaks volumes about the power of its monopoly.

kentuckyfried
Senior User

Joined: Jan 2002

0

09/02, 07:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: MS

Microsoft...represents everything that's wrong with this country. Especially in the department of "if we throw enough money at it, we can own everything."

mamamia
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2001

0

09/02, 07:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
sounding desperate

apple chiding microsoft the way they are comes off as desperate to me. how often do you hear microsoft take these kind of swipes at apple's introduction of a new product? not very often, because they are confident that eventually, over time, they will be able to take advantage of their size and leverage to make hay. i think apple is scared shirtless, and rightfully so.

of course, it doesn't have to be this way. if apple licensed fairplay, then they would become the microsoft of music. but apple appears to be content to simply be the apple of music, which means 5-10%. how sad.

MacScientist
Junior Member

Joined: Feb 2000

0

09/02, 07:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE: Microsoft Clout

The clout in the music download market is the "coolness factor" and the player. Nothing that Microsoft does is cool. So that one is out. Microsoft has no music player. Apple has a music player and it is far and away the most popular one out there. The iTMS helps Apple sell the iPod. The iPod helps Apple sell Macs. Neither the iTMS nor the iPod are terribly profitable. The payoff is in the increased sales of Macs. The MSN Music Store is not going to help Microsoft sell more copies of Windows. So what they have is another money-losing enterprise. The notion that Microsoft has deep pockets is a myth that was proven not true some time ago. Witness the fact the M$ had dropped its networking hardware business. Witness also the fact that M$ is looking to a buyer for Slate, its online magazine. Time was when Microsoft gave away unsuccessful products rather than sell them to someone else who could make a success of them.

The times, they are a-changing.

cptodd
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

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09/02, 07:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
Can you say "PETTY"?

'How many songs will Microsoft's new online music store sell during its first month?'

This is soooo petty. I had hoped for more from Apple.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

09/02, 07:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
Petty?

Have to read what the help file for WMP 10 says about Apple and the iPod?

MSFT has lost its focus.

nat
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2002

0

09/02, 08:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
DEEEP pockets

no, ms DOES have deep pockets. like the poster said, they are prepared to lose and lose on xbox until they dominate. this is what they do. this is all they do. they will not stop. and when the magazines start plastering their itunes rip off on every cover and dedicate endless articles on it and the numerous players out there for it they will win. ie won because they tied it into windows, not from a better product or competing but by DEFAULT! we may hate them and see them for what they are but there's a whole lot of people out there who have no clue. it will be the default player on windows and people will not go looking for something else and that's the end of the story.

nat
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2002

0

09/02, 08:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
DEEEP pockets

no, ms DOES have deep pockets. like the poster said, they are prepared to lose and lose on xbox until they dominate. this is what they do. this is all they do. they will not stop. and when the magazines start plastering their itunes rip off on every cover and dedicate endless articles on it and the numerous players out there for it they will win. ie won because they tied it into windows, not from a better product or competing but by DEFAULT! we may hate them and see them for what they are but there's a whole lot of people out there who have no clue. it will be the default player on windows and people will not go looking for something else and that's the end of the story.

Mac-a-Bayan
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2004

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09/02, 08:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
So it begins

Never trust Microsoft...

First OS coup
Next browser war
Then Palm vs. PocketPC
The list goes on...

As always, although M$ may come in second it will always dominate in the end because of its control over the 90% PC users due to windoze control over Intel based PC. The bottom line is, M$ will not simply let go of its Windoze influence among PC users and it will always use this advantage.

My guess is, if this new M$ scheme to challenge the iPod and iTunes craze proves to be effective, then its clear that introducing hip apps and cool hardware will never break M$ stronghold on the market share. In fact it will only just do the opposite. Make PC users complacent and trust more the wintel platform.

Thus Apple must do the inevitable. Directly hit M$ main guns-- Windoze. Slash down the market share and break walls that traps the majority of the PC users by providing a better alternative OS that is compatible to the Mac (Maybe based on Darwin or perhaps even Linux since it has already has a strong following. But of course not as good as OS X-- like no Aqua feature for instance). Apple may not be immediately sell hardware but it will form alliances with other PC companies who are weary of Windoze control. But most important is that it will create a new market share that is no longer controlled by M$ Windoze.

watashi
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Joined: Oct 2001

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09/03, 12:24am | report spam | close Reply |
seriously though...

Obviously, MS has already lost the battle. A quick comparison of the MySuckyNetwork music site shows you can't get Jessica Simpson's "Sweetest Sin" as a single, only as part of the whole "In This Skin" CD -- which you can't even download - you have to buy the actual CD. Now over at iTunes, not only can you get the single, you can also download the LIMITED EDITION of "In This Skin", which includes three additional songs that you can't get at all from MSN.

Plain and Simple -- Microsoft has lost the battle.

(This is purely in jest. I think mankind has already lost the battle when someone like Jessica Simpson can become "something" -- even when that "something" is still completely impossible to define.)

As for Microsoft, let them catch up. Let them overtake. Let them destroy.

The wise ones, like those of us who have stuck with Apple, used Netscape until it became utterly bloated and useless, and prefer quality over mere quantity (yes, you can read that as "those of us who don't shop at Wal-Mart")...

We will pay a little more, have to work a little harder to find a compatible product, but in the end we'll enjoy our little niche at a level of comfort, quality and ease the rest don't appreciate, and in many ways, do not deserve.

Microsoft's success, and it is a complete success when viewed from the capitalist point of view, is simply a commentary on what we as a nation have let ourselves become -- greedy, lazy and willing to settle for less, as long as it saves us a buck or saves us from exerting an ounce of effort or thought. Quality and service mean nothing to the masses.

ArizonaJoe
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2004

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09/03, 01:15am | report spam | close Reply |
Please...

Are you guys for real? "Oh, we Mac people are so much better than everyone else...Microsoft is not cool...yada...yada"

The iMac is awesome. The iPod is awesome. But that doesn't mean that MS can't do awesome things. Apple is far more monopolistic than MS in making you buy their hardware - I mean what's the point of "buying" a song on iTunes if you can only play it on their gear? If MS tried that, you guys would be all over them. Get real. Apple needs to open up and sell songs people can actually use.

ddukes
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2000

0

09/03, 01:52am | report spam | close Reply |
RE: Please

Whatever!

Everyone else needs to "open up". How many services out there run on a Mac as well as a PC? Let me answer... NONE! And they want Apple to share???

No one has bothered to share their software with the Mac up till this day. Don't give me that c*** about market share and viable platforms to develop for. OBVIOUSLY, catering to Mac users as well will reap benefits if your product is good.

On that note. This MSN Music Store will still not fly. Here's why:

If what everyone else says is true about 'giving choice to consumers' with the 70 different music players then consumers would have these music players already but what do they chose? The iPod.

Simply because it's cooler and more trendy. iPod status have permeated down to celebrities and sports figures. There isn't a majority of folk who want a music player by Creative over an iPod. It just isn't gonna happen.

The iPod is here to stay until Apple thinks of something better.

klinux
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

09/03, 01:55am | report spam | close Reply |
DEEEEP THOUGHTS

"this is what they do. this is all they do."

nat. You are a child. Stop posting before mommy takes your computer away.

Have you heard of Ultimate TV? Failure and disbanded in 2002. Sidewalk? Failure - sold to Citysearch. Expedia - sold. Slate - dying. Network equipment - failure. MS Bob. Need I say more?

blidd
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2003

0

09/03, 05:03am | report spam | close Reply |
MacScientist

I Think they are making good money on the iPod and the iPod mini. Remember the the iPod mini is to expensive crowed. Will Apple can�t delever enough of them so it turns out they aren�t to expensive. As soon as the ituns music store i Avalable here in Denmark, I am going to provide my Whife with a mini And my self with a ipod 40GB.

VValdo
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: May 2001

0

09/03, 05:13am | report spam | close Reply |
Apple did say the same..

To whomever was citing Apple's welcoming of IBM into the PC market..

Remember this 1981 ad?

http://static.userland.com/manilasites/images/MManilaSitesCom/welibm.jpg

John Dwight
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 1999

0

09/03, 06:27am | report spam | close Reply |
900 Lb. Gorilla

Let's face it, MS can walk into any market they want. For every MS Bob and WebTV, they've got Office and Windows to pay the bills.

The main question is, will MS get bored with this market? They threw everything at Netscape, destroyed them, and now don't even bother to upgrade IE6. Their goal: to ensure Java/Netscape never came near their cash cow. Mission Accomplished. Browsers can now got to h***.

You'll still find me with an iPod, shopping at iTMS. Why should I bother learning yet another way to shop?

jerryfrit
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2004

0

09/03, 09:19am | report spam | close Reply |
Excuse me?

>>I mean what's the point of "buying" a song on iTunes if you can only play it on their gear?

Errr, that's not true. You can easily export the music, burn CDs, etc. Apple has actually done a good job, walking a tightrope between keeping the record labels content and allowing for 'fair use.'

Meanwhile, I love how Microsoft bashes Apple's 'proprietary' format. I guess they are placing themselves as the haven for 'standards'--i.e, Windows Media. ROTFL

ArizonaJoe
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2004

0

09/03, 01:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
More

What I meant was, that if you want to play the music on a portable device, you can only do so on overpriced Apple hardware.

The good news is that the competition will probably drive some changes at iTunes. Right out of the chute, the MSN Music store is offering substantially better sound quality than iTunes due to the higher bitrates (AAC and WMA score pretty evenly at the same bitrate in all the reviews I've read). So WMA at a higher than 128 bitrate gives MSN the advantage. Logical move for iTunes -- offer higher AAC bitrates.

Ideal outcome: Apple licenses FairPlay and lets people play on devices other than iPod.

If Apple insists on a closed shop, I predict that within two years MSN Music (or another store using a widely licensed DRM standard) will be #1, with iTunes steadily losing share.

deasys
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

09/04, 12:41am | report spam | close Reply |
AAC vs. WMA

" (AAC and WMA score pretty evenly at the same bitrate in all the reviews I've read)"

Not in the reviews I've read--multiple double-blind studies show WMA to be at or near the bottom in percieved quality whereas AAC is consistently at or near the top.

Look again.

ArizonaJoe
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2004

0

09/04, 01:41am | report spam | close Reply |
Source

ExtremeTech did a thorough test, and AAC and WMA ended up even. I have never, ever heard of one besting the other. They are both second-generation, better-than-MP3, technologies.

deasys
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

09/04, 03:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Source

ExtremeTech's tests weren't double-blind and the results they derived are therefore subject to bias. More relaible (and believable) tests can be found at

http: //ff123.net/

biglar
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2004

0

09/04, 11:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
Nice AAC/WMA/MP3 review

http://www.tomshardware.com/consumer/20020712/2u4u-05.html

This web site gives a pretty technical review.

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Gates: 'probably' room for both iTunes, MSN Music

updated 03:10 pm EDT, Thu September 2, 2004

MSN music v iTunes redux

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Apple did say the same..

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