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Avoiding the Microsoft tax with an Apple Powerbook

updated 01:15 pm EDT, Thu September 2, 2004

Avoiding the Microsoft tax

Grady Booch, the author of six best-selling books and writer of several hundred articles on software engineering, has taken "the bold step of dismissing the endless upgrade path that Microsoft demands us to take. He has decided to embrace a Microsoft-free computing environment. Grady just got a new 17" Apple PowerBook G4 and is very content with his new path and other additions to his computing environment that enables him to ."

by MacNN Staff

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bobolicious
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2002

0

09/02, 01:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
Absolute BS!!! Mac Tax!

Given that Windows 98 through XP are all still viable OS's, and Mozilla, Open Office, SpyBot, Jukebox, etc are all freely available, I'd have to say my Mac is the one with the 'tax' now...

3 paid Mac OS updates (only one of which really works ie 10.3) and software that is more expensive & generally uncompetitive feature wise with what is available on Windoze - the PC has made huge gains in this camp - basically being able to do the '20% of things we do 80% of the time' for free or cheaper & faster than a comparably priced Mac...

There are still only dysfunctional accounting options for the Mac at best & MS has extended support for W98 (OS-9 anyone?) which still runs a whole lot faster than 10.3... OpenOffice in X11 is a joke graphically & hardly comparable to running it on a PC...

ecrelin
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2000

0

09/02, 01:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
fissures to cracks!

as foundations fail small fissures appear at first in one place and then they're everywhere, then they get bigger and then� "the bigger they are the harder they fall"! A year ago or two ago the weekly IT rags (except informationweek) stopped filling half of their mags with the next big thing from M$, the first fissures, then several actually started writing about the viability for Linux and more recently Macs (bravo Tom Yager and Infoworld), fissures are becoming cracks, with three+ years (hedge your own bet) until Longshot appears you'd best move away from that top heavy dogpile that is Microsoft, hee hee, long time comin', see ya!

evankai
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2004

0

09/02, 02:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
I'm with Bob

I don't think Graddy's done his research. To run just the current version of OSX, he is going to pay $100 a year. If he wants to keep his applications current, it gets even more expensive.

theredevil13
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2004

0

09/02, 02:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
At least....

...OSX gets updates. Or would you prefer the 5 year wait for a OS that keeps getting set back more and more? If you don't want to pay for more features and higher performance, by all means stay with 10.1, 10.2, or soon 10.3.

HouseSold
Senior User

Joined: Oct 2000

0

09/02, 02:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
Best of Both Worlds

I work in an environment of both Mac and PC's daily. They both have attributes, that's why we purchase and continue to use both. The author's argument may balance out once the newness wears off. We love our new Toshiba running XP Pro and we love our new Powerbook 17" running OS 10.3.5 for their respective virtues and will continue to do so without dissing the other. Thank goodness for competition. Now if the Toshiba only had a backlit keyboard.

outZider
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 1999

0

09/02, 03:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
huh.

That's funny, 10.2 still works great for a /lot/ of people. By your logic, the only Microsoft product that has really worked is XP.

Amazing.

csimon2
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2000

0

09/02, 03:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
Jaguar IS (WAS) viable

Anyone who claims that 10.2 wasn't fast or stable is insane. Yes 10.3 is better for the most part, but Jaguar did a very good job and if you still had to use it, I wouldn't think you were any more hindered. There is only a very small number of apps that will only work in Panther, and none of them are what you would exactly term as consumer oriented. 10.3 is only faster because of evolution of the Mac OS X OS, not because 10.2 was terribly slow like 10.0 and 10.1.

hayesk
Professional Poster

Joined: Sep 1999

0

09/02, 03:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Absolute BS...

Yeah whatever. My friend uses 10.2 everyday and it works just fine for her. I don't know what you are talking about.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

09/02, 04:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
cost

Let's see, mac computers cost more (unless you want 2 year old tech in the eMac, you must spend at least $1300 for a new iMac, and that assumes the base system has what you need, but you're probably going to want to get more RAM, extend the warranty), then spend extra $$ on whatever software you can find (PC software is cheaper, by a long shot, esp. the year-to-year software like Quicken, tax software, etc, and generally isn't as good), and, up front, you spend way more on a mac than a PC.

And what does this mean? "the bold step of dismissing the endless upgrade path that Microsoft demands us to take. " As far as I know, MS has never pushed an update down anyone's throats, nor has there been much software built that required XP or anything. As a previous poster said, MS still supports win98 for goodness sakes. You're more likely to find software that will work on 98 through XP than you are that will work 10.1 through 10.3.

Oh, and if you want to run ANY software from Apple, the latest OS is pretty much required.

Now, they've pushed updates down the throats of organizations with their licensing, but that doesn't affect this one guy.

utopian
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2004

0

09/02, 04:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
WTF

Come on now....

Mac OS X.1 = $129 and doesn't really even work right
Mac OS X.2 = $129 works better, but for music, not so good.
Mac OS X.3 = $129 Now were talking

Total cost for OSX so far: $387

Do I have to say more...

I love my Mac, but I also love my home built XP machine.

I truly believe in the best of both worlds.

Utopian

NDBounce
Senior User

Joined: Feb 2000

0

09/02, 06:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hate to say it, but...

I hate to say it, but it's true. We all know Mac's do require a premium to be paid. So if there is a Tax, it is for Mac users, not PC users.

I have a P3 box that I use when I need a PC, it runs Win 2K and is doing just fine.

I use my PowerBook for most daily tasks, but I know that I could have easily purchased a faster PC for less. Of course then I would have to use windows all the time.

Yes, I pay a premium to use a slower computer because I like the interface better. I am not going to pretend the Mac is cheaper, faster or more expansive than a PC, it simply isn't true. But for me, it is still my preferred way of computing.

gurman
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2000

0

09/02, 06:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apples and, er, oranges

There's a little bit of a disjunction here: any Windows OS before XP with SP 2 is a going to be 0wn3d in a few minutes if it's on a network and not behind a firewall. heaven help the poor C owner who attaches such a machine to directly to a DSL or cable modem. That's just not a worry for Mac OS X.

As for XP itself, it is totally serviceable, as long as you don't mind something designed by people with the esthetic sensibilities of tube worms, or some other sightless creature of the deep that doesn't mind how poorly it all hangs together.... and would it still be better if Microsoft met its bogies on new OS version releases?

For some sense of proportion, even in large quantities, corporate users are being charged by Microsoft ~ $300 a year not to receive any new OS versions. OS X looks better and better, unless, indeed, you want to run a network-unsafe OS at home. There, WIndows is definitely cheaper.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

09/02, 07:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
IMac a good deal.

Cheaper than the iMac at retail prices? I call bullsh*t. I priced out a bottom of the barrel Dell and upgraded it to include Firewire, XP Pro and some Dell multimedia software bundle (including MS Plus) with a 17" Digital LCD and it came out several hundred dollars more than the iMac. This was before adding additional ram. IIRC, it was 1450USD.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

09/02, 07:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE:WTF

Umm. XP was not a free upgrade from Win2k and Win2k was not a free upgrade from Win9x or NT 4.x.

Come on now. Any recent machine from the past two years would have had either Jaguar or Panther installed on it so you point is moot.

Even if you upgraded from 10.1 through to 10.3, it was still cheaper than going from 9x/NT 4.x through to XP.

Ratm
Mac Elite

Joined: Dec 2001

0

09/02, 08:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
These are trolls...

Make note. They have never post in the forums since they joined, some have been here for years!!! The only post in this section and that's only to bash Apple.
Ms stooges
bobolicious, evankai, testudo, utopian

aer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2004

0

09/02, 09:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: WTF

XP Professional is $299. I'd say the cost of $129 for each Mac OS is still a better deal. Plus, you get a software firewall, built in virus immunity, great iApps and functionality that Microsith won't even be able to add into Long/Shorthorn in 2007.

However, your homebuilt XP machine most certainly has Minesweeper and Solitaire. Definitely better than iPhoto or iDVD!

LouZer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

0

09/02, 09:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Imac a good deal

Cheaper than the iMac at retail prices? I call bullsh*t. I priced out a bottom of the barrel Dell and upgraded it to include Firewire, XP Pro and some Dell multimedia software bundle (including MS Plus) with a 17" Digital LCD and it came out several hundred dollars more than the iMac. This was before adding additional ram. IIRC, it was 1450USD.

Except you miss the point. I can get a 17" CRT for $50 from Dell. If you want to compare it spec for spec, sure, its comparable. But the thing is, with a Dell or any other box maker, you have the CHOICE of what to include or not. I can get a decent Dell with monitor for less than a grand. Does it have an LCD? No. But then again, I can go sans monitor and get it cheaper (and use my existing monitor).

So all you who keep proclaiming its a great-priced computer, you're right, if you want a computer that has all it provides. However, if you don't, its overpriced, and worse, you have no CHOICE. But that's OK, for those 16 people whose requirements meet the iMac, its perfect!

JEB
Junior Member

Joined: May 2001

0

09/02, 11:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Money is money

but, MS tax . . . I don't think it's about money . . . it's about time wasted with that steaming hunk of junk!

No more viruses in my t***, please!

geekstud
Junior Member

Joined: Feb 2001

0

09/03, 01:06am | report spam | close Reply |
10.2

"Yes 10.3 is better for the most part, but Jaguar did a very good job and if you still had to use it, I wouldn't think you were any more hindered"

Unless, of course, you want access to the current version of Apple's preferred web browser, Safari. Make no mistake about it, Apple has moved to a similar software revenue model as Microsoft: you will pay $129 every year for an OS upgrade or you will be left behind. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm just pointing out that is has already started, like it or not.

bobolicious
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2002

0

09/03, 10:09am | report spam | close Reply |
bleeding edge...

...well to those who think I'm a troll, give it up - I've been a Mac user/owner since 1991...

Let's see on the OS-X working front:

Safari & Apples' Java implementation STILL don't work properly even in 10.3 (OK so it's only a web browser!) so I need to keep THREE browsers going - & I can't kill the cache or history tracking - gee now that sounds like a MS trick for spying... How about Quicken being able to work with Safari?

Still no uninstall if an update cacks - ok just reformat your HD & re-install - I LIKE the windows system restore... Plug & pray is now applicable to Apple if you ask me...

Only Apple would release OS-X beta without an uninstall option (this is an aside but a real DOH!)

iPhoto chews up files & creates such a confusing directory list that all semblance of the originals are lost or difficult to find - I won't use it - I even have to be careful with preview as it resaves files lossly... iTunes has been almost as bad in early iterations...

STILL no fully featured accounting software. But nobody running a business needs that...

Working peripheral drivers for numerous printers, scanners etc were only released during the 10.3 cycle (see epson, HP, etc.) and no, GIMP print was not easy NOR intuitive...

Networking is still hit & miss... Email still isn't as useable or fast as Outlook in OS-9. Try importing/exporting data - for some reason Apple doesn't like open standards such as .CSV - funny that! Appleworks is also missing that one... Easier to use the free Openoffice on the PC I'm afraid...

A few features from OS-9 (labels) were only implemented in 10.3 & some are still not implemented (we'll see if Tiger rounds out the list - such as tiered file navigation...

OS-X is definitely graphically beautiful. THAT I'll happily & absolutely agree with... But it is quite a tax to pay...

Paerhaps Apple has become the flashy, high maintenance blond of the computer realm...

evankai
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2004

0

09/03, 11:48am | report spam | close Reply |
Troll?!?

Does this look like the work of a troll?

http://blog.evankai.com/archives/000295.html

Sorry the formatting's all f'ed up on my blog. I've had a h*** of a time getting MySQL/DBD/DBI/Perl to play nice on the XServe that hosts my blog. You can read about my issues with Apple's Apache/Perl install here...

http://blog.evankai.com/#000446

I don't think the fact that I know about and use more platforms than you earns me the classification of Troll... nor do I think trying to keep FanBoys like Ratm in check is a bad thing.

This year I'm maintaining more than 150 Macs with 1,000 OpenDirectory users with home directories on an XServer with an XRaid after a horrible year trying get Apple's 10.2 and 10.3.1-3 AD plugins to work reliably (of course, the 10.3.5 AD seems to actually work!). I've written software to fix things that Apple shipped broken like disk quotas (http://osxdq.sourceforge.net/). I complain when Apple treats documentation like marketing material.

Ratm, you're a fanboy...

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=Ratm&num=10&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=macnn.com&safe=images

"That's my Stevie boy! :^)"

"WM9 a better codec than h.264(?) wtf are you people smoking"

"Anybody get Dell's reaction to Apple's iPod sales figures? :D. Trust me when I say that the desktops are next. Apple is going to have a great year."

Just having a Mac on your desk doesn't make you an authority. Bringing some actual experience to the table would be a start. I'd also recommend refraining trying to label someone a troll simply because we don't post on your favorite forums. Funny how I never see you at afp548.com, macosxlabs.org, or lists.apple.com were the real work gets done.

Macnn.com is a decent news aggregator. It often reports on work that comes out of some of the groups I participate in, but if I want to talk tech... I'll do it with other professionals over a news site with fanboys like you.

falseillusion
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2004

0

09/03, 11:57am | report spam | close Reply |
re: bleeding edge...

Alright, let's take a look then...

> Safari & Apples' Java implementation STILL don't
> work properly even in 10.3 (OK so it's only a web
> browser!) so I need to keep THREE browsers going - &
> I can't kill the cache or history tracking - gee now
> that sounds like a MS trick for spying... How about
> Quicken being able to work with Safari?

Not sure why you're using three browsers, I use Mozilla's free firefox browser exclusively and I'm totally happy. As far as the Java implementation, seems to work fine for me - what sites doesn't it work on? You can't kill the cache or history tracking? Really? Have you looked at the "Reset" option in safari? And as far as Quicken not being able to work with Safari, that's definitely not Safari's fault - it's one of the most standards compliant browsers out there - second only to the Mozilla Organization's Gecko based browsers. You seem bent on blaming apple when something doesn't work. Perhaps you should do some research first. Now not all is peachy in the apple browser world: here's an actual valid criticism for apple... The latest version of Safari isn't supported on Mac OS 10.2, that's just c*** - apple is just giving excuses when it says webcore can't be ported to 10.2. It's one of the worst lies I've heard from them.

> Still no uninstall if an update cacks - ok just
> reformat your HD & re-install - I LIKE the windows
> system restore... Plug & pray is now applicable to
> Apple if you ask me...

Haha, this one is funny - check out what Windows XP Service Pack 2 does to machines... read this article if you're interested.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18203

Also check slashdot for an article about how many computers blue screen, die, and require a reinstall of XP from SP2. I agree, System Restore is a great feature of Windows XP, but I've seen many instances in which it hoses the machine because of registry issues. You're lucky if you haven't experienced any problems... And God forbid if you ever used Windows ME, you're pretty much forced to use this feature all the time, and when it breaks... uh oh.

> iPhoto chews up files & creates such a confusing
> directory list that all semblance of the originals
> are lost or difficult to find - I won't use it - I
> even have to be careful with preview as it resaves
> files lossly... iTunes has been almost as bad in
> early iterations...

iPhoto is designed to manage your directory structure for you. I personally enjoy this freedom from micromanaging my directory structure. If I ever need a photo for email, editing, etc. I find it in iPhoto and drag it to wherever I need it. Now I understand the need to control where everything on your computer goes, I have friends who are like that. But you hit the nail on the head

falseillusion
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2004

0

09/03, 12:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: bleeding edge contd

Apple doesn't force you to use iPhoto! Now there may be better ways of warning the user what happens to the photos when you import to iPhoto (that may actually be a valid point) but you fail to bring that up. Send some feedback to apple, maybe they'll eventually listen. I'll do the same. I'm with you on Preview - the low quality resave sucks. Hey guess what, the first versions of software almost always have shortcomings - and that's the same story with iTunes. It's better now because apple has invested a lot into it. Have you looked at Microsoft Word recently? We edit 700+ page documents here at the office and it routinely crashes. So much so that we aren't surprised when it happens. We just open the backup file and start again. Do you know how much time we waste? I'd compare this to your accusation of iPhoto. We have to consciously back up our word docs before we open them for editing. Does it still happen in Office 2003? You bet. Apple's apps, though annoying features they may have, are quite superior to Microsoft apps in terms of usability, form, and reliability.

> STILL no fully featured accounting software. But
> nobody running a business needs that...

Hmm... let's see - ignorance bites again.
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/business_finance/

> Working peripheral drivers for numerous printers,
> scanners etc were only released during the 10.3
> cycle (see epson, HP, etc.) and no, GIMP print was
> not easy NOR intuitive...

You definitely have a valid point here, though I have to point out that you should only buy printers that say they are Mac OS X compatible. Now if you did, and they didn't support Mac OS X, that's the manufacturer's fault. Apple has provided the frameworks for writing print drivers. Why are you finding fault with apple? Is it their fault if you buy a printer that doesn't support Mac OS X and it doesn't work?

> Networking is still hit & miss... Email still isn't
> as useable or fast as Outlook in OS-9. Try
> importing/exporting data - for some reason Apple
> doesn't like open standards such as .CSV - funny
> that! Appleworks is also missing that one... Easier
> to use the free Openoffice on the PC I'm afraid...

Networking is hit or miss? In my experience it's been far more reliable on the mac than on the PC. How many PCs have autosensing ethernet ports? Do you realize OpenOffice is available for the mac? I've heard that appleworks is terrible, and on that point, I totally agree with you, but when you turn around and say things like: "Easier to use the free Openoffice on the PC I'm afraid..." well, it doesn't reflect well on yourself. Check it out: OpenOffice on the mac!

http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/ooo-osx_downloads.html

> A few features from OS-9 (labels) were only
> implemented in 10.3 & some a

falseillusion
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2004

0

09/03, 12:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: bleeding edge contd

> implemented in 10.3 & some are still not implemented
> (we'll see if Tiger rounds out the list - such as
> tiered file navigation...

I believe this is just a personal preference thing - I never use labels, and I have no problems with the navigation. Maybe this is because I've only owned a mac for a year and a half and have used windows for a very long time. Who knows... all I know is that I like the fact that the software works the way I want it to. Sure there can be improvements, but the windows browsing experience hasn't improved in what? 6 years? 10 years?

> OS-X is definitely graphically beautiful. THAT I'll
> happily & absolutely agree with... But it is quite a
> tax to pay...
> Paerhaps Apple has become the flashy, high
> maintenance blond of the computer realm...

To this I say: Why don't you go buy a PC and stop whining? If it truly is that much better, switch over. Complaining never brightened a single person's day. Maybe you'll be happier on the other side of the fence. But some advice first: do some research and think clearly before you start publicly lambasting someone's product. To that end, feel free to criticize my lack of knowledge if you find something wrong with what I've posted. I'm always willing to learn and admit I was wrong.

Cheers.

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Avoiding the Microsoft tax with an Apple Powerbook

updated 01:15 pm EDT, Thu September 2, 2004

Avoiding the Microsoft tax

Absolute BS!!! Mac Tax!

fissures to cracks!

I'm with Bob

At least....

Best of Both Worlds

huh.

Jaguar IS (WAS) viable

Re: Absolute BS...

cost

WTF

Hate to say it, but...

Apples and, er, oranges

IMac a good deal.

RE:WTF

These are trolls...

re: WTF

Re: Imac a good deal

Money is money

10.2

bleeding edge...

Troll?!?

re: bleeding edge...

re: bleeding edge contd

re: bleeding edge contd

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Avoiding the Microsoft tax with an Apple Powerbook

updated 01:15 pm EDT, Thu September 2, 2004

Avoiding the Microsoft tax

Related Articles

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Absolute BS!!! Mac Tax!

fissures to cracks!

I'm with Bob

At least....

Best of Both Worlds

huh.

Jaguar IS (WAS) viable

Re: Absolute BS...

cost

WTF

Hate to say it, but...

Apples and, er, oranges

IMac a good deal.

RE:WTF

These are trolls...

re: WTF

Re: Imac a good deal

Money is money

10.2

bleeding edge...

Troll?!?

re: bleeding edge...

re: bleeding edge contd

re: bleeding edge contd

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