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Apple debuts new dual-2.5GHz Power Mac G5

updated 08:35 am EDT, Wed June 9, 2004

Apple revamps G5 line

Apple today unveiled its new desktop line, featuring a $3000 dual-2.5GHz processor with a front-side bus running at 1.25GHz per processor and "advanced liquid cooling". The dual 1.8GHz ($2,000/256MB/80GB) and dual-2.0 GHz ($2,500/512MB/160GB) Power Mac G5 models are available now, while the dual-2.5 GHz ($3,000/512MB/160GB) Power Mac G5 model is expected to be available in July. All three models ship with an 8x SuperDrive; the two low-end models include a NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 Ultra with 64MB DDR SDRAM. The high-end model will ship with a 128MB ATI RADEON 9600 XT (also available as a BTO option on any model). The entry model features 3-PCI slots (64-bit, 33 MHz), while the other two offer 3 PCI-X slots (one 64-bit 133 MHz, two 64-bit 100 MHz).

by MacNN Staff

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MDiddy
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/09, 08:44am | report spam | close Reply |
Thumbs Down

They hobble the Dual 1.8 with the same board as the old 1.6GHz single, and still charge $200 bucks more, AND stick to PCI-X slots with already dated video cards. Waited almost a year for a Rev.2, now I'm wainting for a Rev. 3.

jimothy
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2000

0

06/09, 08:52am | report spam | close Reply |
oh wow!

Here it is! A day late and 100MHz short, but it really is here!

1800-whatever
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2004

0

06/09, 08:55am | report spam | close Reply |
dual 1,8

Yes , but for 200 bucks more, I get a dual machine, ordering mine this week .

red_wedge
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2002

0

06/09, 08:59am | report spam | close Reply |
and next...

With this sudden flurry of releases (AirPort Express, new G5's, Euro iTunes) I wonder what Steve's going to pull out the hat at WWDC...

Hopefully it won't just be a reiteration of old news...

t_c
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2002

0

06/09, 09:00am | report spam | close Reply |
re: oh wow!

"100 Mhz short?"

Seeing that it's 20% slower than the promised 3 Ghz tells me that it'll be a marketing challenge for Apple and 500 Mhz short!1

For just once, i'd like Apple to 'surprize' everyone, can you imagine the shock if they came out with dual 3.5 Ghz G5s today???

Oh well, will take the 2.5 ...

phillymjs
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2000

0

06/09, 09:05am | report spam | close Reply |
Whoo hoo!

Finally, Rev B. Dual 3.0 would have been nice, but dual 2.5 will suffice.

LouZer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

0

06/09, 09:07am | report spam | close Reply |
Blows

This blows. All the rumors were saying new powermacs at wwdc. And those would be 975 machines at 3GHz. They got this completley wrong (oh, except for like yesterday, when they suddenly announced these things, like a rumor a day before is like some breaking news thing).

Add this to the fact that the rumor sites completely missed AirTunes and AirportExpress (a revolutionary AND cheap product), and I'm starting to wonder whether I should be taking their word for gospel anymore....

I'm so confused...

Less than spectacular upgrades. Reminds me of the G4 550s when they came out, so long after the 500s and not much faster/better. I expect most of the feedback on this release will be more negative than positive because of this. Just letting you know.

And where's the $1500-$1800 machine? I mean, its bad enough I can't get a G4 (ancient) mac to replace my Beige G3 at less than a grand, but I can't even get a G5 mac for less than two.

I guess Apple really doesn't want me to buy a machine anytime soon.

Oh, would you all call these "Rev B" machines that everyone has been waiting for, or do they still fall in the "Rev A" category, so when Apple doesn't sell any of them people here can say "Oh, because everyone's still waiting for the Rev B model".

jimothy
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2000

0

06/09, 09:13am | report spam | close Reply |
re: 100 MHz short

I mean, 100 MHz short from what the rumors were reporting. Not that that means much.

Yes, dual 3.5 GHz would have been a nice surprise, and I'm sure one that Apple would have loved to have made. Unfortunately, though, it's not up to Apple to make that surprise.

Finally, regarding 3 GHz...Jobs said 3 GHz by the summer. I'm not going to hold my breath, but it's still possible. September 21 (the last day of summer) is still over three and a half months away. (For the record, I don't expect to see a new G5 by then, but I'm just trying to give Apple the benefit of the doubt).

Monstermind
Junior Member

Joined: May 2000

0

06/09, 09:14am | report spam | close Reply |
$2000?

So the base price of a low-end "current" Mac is $2000? Oy.

jasonsRX7
Mac Elite

Joined: Jul 2003

0

06/09, 09:16am | report spam | close Reply |
Liquid

Liquid cooling... cool :)

LouZer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

0

06/09, 09:17am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: oh wow

"100 Mhz short?"

Seeing that it's 20% slower than the promised 3 Ghz tells me that it'll be a marketing challenge for Apple and 500 Mhz short!1

Hey, doing my best 'hat-changing' routine, I'd like to point out that
(a) You weren't promised 3.0GHz today
(b) the reader was talking about the 2.6GHz rumor on Apple Insider on monday

On the 3.0 front, all Jobs said was "We'll be at 3GHz in one year", or "3GHz by next summer" (I'm pretty sure it was one or the other). The first is hard to define, since he didn't say "one year from now", because he pre-announced the G5s by like two months. The second is still true, because summer in the US hasn't started yet, and won't end until september.

Now, just because EVERYONE was expecting 3GHz at WWDC because they were like 4 months late on an update to the original G5 line doesn't mean they missed some deadline.

albook
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Nov 2003

0

06/09, 09:22am | report spam | close Reply |
I`ll wait for the 3GHz..

This is great news.
But as many remember, on WWDC 2003 in june last year Steve Jobs promised 2 x 3GHz PowerMac within 12 months.
So I will definatelly wait for the upgrade on WWDC 2004! ;)

DeepDish
Forum Regular

Joined: May 2001

0

06/09, 09:23am | report spam | close Reply |
2000 too much, get an ema

The base mac is not $2000.

The base mac is an emac. And a great bang for the buck.

I want more seperation between pro models and consumer models. Please lower the price of the emac and imac even more.

hayesk
Professional Poster

Joined: Sep 1999

0

06/09, 09:25am | report spam | close Reply |
Immature whining

So let me get this straight. When Steve Jobs said 3GHz "a year later" you took a huge unit of time (a year) to mean "exactly 365 days later than the first announcement date"? Interesting. So you didn't take it to mean a year after the first G5s ship, and you didn't take it to mean "a year, give or a take a couple of months." Wow, you have way too much faith in ship date estimations.

Also, every complainer here has tasks that need to be done right away that only a dual 3GHz Mac can do, but a dual 2.5GHz Mac cannot do? How many of you really need that extra boost, which is likely to be only about 10% in real world performance?

jimothy
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Joined: Sep 2000

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06/09, 09:30am | report spam | close Reply |
re: blows

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not but NO, you should not being taking the rumor sites' word as gospel. Never should have.

A 500MHz jump, while not spectacular, ain't bad for less than a year. That's a 25% jump. During that time, Intel managed an increase of 200MHz (the 3.2GHz P4 was announce June 23, 2003; their current fastest processor clocks at 3.4GHz), for a mere 6.25% increase. Even if Intel releases a 4GHz processor in the next few months, that would only match, percentage wise, what IBM has done with the G5. (4GHz is a 25% improvement over 3.2GHz, 18% over 3.4GHz). Intel isn't expected to release a 4GHz processor until the end of 2004, and I won't be surprised if it slips into 2005.

MAlan
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Oct 1999

0

06/09, 09:32am | report spam | close Reply |
90 nm chips

Are these the 90 nm chips?

no use for a nick
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2001

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06/09, 09:33am | report spam | close Reply |
Just FYI

It looks like the 2.5 Chip is, in fact, the new 975 chip. That's why it has the fancy schmancy liquid cooling. I suspect the two "slower" models are just clearing out inventory before they go to an all-975 lineup.

David Esrati
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 1999

0

06/09, 09:35am | report spam | close Reply |
driving away customers

The base price for a Mac - without Apple chosing a monitor- is $2000- in a day when there are a million computers that start at $500. People already have monitors- and keyboards, and mice- that are all compatible with a Mac- without a CPU- if Jobs wants to sell computers- he needs 2 things:
1) a headless iMac/eMac with 1 PCI slot at $500
2) entry level single processor G5 with 3 slots at $1499

No matter how cool the iMac is, or how affordable the eMac is- neither goes head to head with other machines-
and- neither is a good alternative for corporate installations of hundreds of machines- doing stupid terminal type work.

this isn't 1984- where people are buying their first computer and need the all in one package-
or 1998 (or whenever it was that the iMac was launched) where they were buying their first computer to get on the internet.

I was waiting for the unhobbled motherboard at $2000. I'll still be waiting.

Clive
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2001

0

06/09, 09:38am | report spam | close Reply |
Gap

>So the base price of a low-end "current" Mac is $2000? Oy.

Perhaps there's something else waiting to fill that gap?

>When Steve Jobs said 3GHz "a year later"...

I think he actually said "Within 12 months, we will be at 3GHz", and that was June 2003.

http://news.com.com/2100-1042-1020015.html

If you have another source I'm happy to be proved wrong.

t_hah
Mac Elite

Joined: Dec 2000

0

06/09, 09:39am | report spam | close Reply |
Soooo

Could Apple try to use this new cooling technology, that they put into the 2.5GHz PowerMac and build a PowerBook G5? It doesn't even have to be running at 2GHz. 1.25 would be plenty for starters. :-)

I love the new PowerMacs! The prices have significantly dropped compared to the ones Apple sold yesterday. This is a great day!

LouZer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

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06/09, 09:44am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: get an emac

The base mac is an emac. And a great bang for the buck.

Great, an emac. But I said I wanted to replace my Beige G3. What do I do with my 19" monitor (which is a nice monitor). Just dump it in a corner and forget about it. I think not. I want a desktop machine that allows me to use MY computer equipment, not the equipment Apple wants me to use. How come I can get a a replacement PC for $1000 but can't get a decent replacement Mac for less than 2000? (Although I know I can get a year and a half old, if not older, G4 tower for like 1200, but I'm not buying a two year old machine).

Its just amazing to me how much Apple doesn't want people to buy their computers.

no use for a nick
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2001

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06/09, 09:48am | report spam | close Reply |
Uh

I hope you folks don't run out of cheese to go with your whine today.

tdellos
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2003

0

06/09, 09:51am | report spam | close Reply |
550?

Hello?? Like going from a G4 500 to a 550? That's a %10 bump, this is a 25% bump (per processor).

I don't know what people are moaning about. Go check out the PC world - no big speed breakthroughs there lately. Would you rather be stuck in 1.4-1.5 GHz land?!? That's where we would be without the G5.

Sorry for the rant, but I just get a little sick of how quickly people forget how good they got it. And yes, it's unfortunate that Steve made the 3.0 GHz comment, but the guys a visionary. If you want 100% accurate numbers - go find yourself an accountant - otherwise deal with the fact that Messr. Jobs is going to push the bounds, shoot for the stars and sometimes miss a little. Jeez, he does a pretty damn good job as far as I can tell.

If I do have a gripe, it's on the cheapness of the graphics cards. An NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 in a $2500 computer? That seems a little cheap to me.

mikerally
Senior User

Joined: Jan 2000

0

06/09, 09:56am | report spam | close Reply |
"A Year Later..."

Some of you have really really poor memory, watch over last year's WWDC and Apple Expo Paris again.

Steve Jobs actually said they will reach 3Ghz "Within the next 12 months" (is anyone on here anal enough to make me post the actual photo of the slide from the keynote on here?).

At the WWDC, he never said "Next Summer", he never said "This time next year". He explicitly said "12 months".

On another note, the exact same quote and slide was used at Apple Expo Paris - so interpret that as you wish (12 months from June or 12 months from September?). I seriously doubt we will see a 3Ghz PowerMac G5 this June or September, however.

Furthermore, it's not like Steve can't get it wrong either.

Does anyone remember the original preview of Mac OS X at Macworld San Fransisco in January 2000? Steve said that a public beta would be out by "Spring" and that the final 10.0 would be out by the "End of Summer". The reality was that the public beta shipped in September, and that the final 10.0 (which to most people was still considered largely unfinished) shipped in the THE YEAR AFTER.

Steve is not the holy one! He is fallable!!! So stop making excuses for him, just admit it - he got it WRONG!

mowogg
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Joined: Aug 2002

0

06/09, 09:59am | report spam | close Reply |
$2,000 Base

With the pro line now above $2,000 it seems that there is a good time to introduce a headless iMac or eMac. Apple seriously needs to replace the MDD towers for folks who want a machine for less than 2 grand and want more monitor options.

chas_m
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/09, 10:07am | report spam | close Reply |
re: Blows

LouZer:

You sure live up to your name.

dennis
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/09, 10:08am | report spam | close Reply |
rumored case

Get over it folks, Jobs was overly optimistic. We won't see 3 GHz any time soon.

The most disappointing thing about this update is not the specs, but the further increase in price of the entry-level Power Mac. I was able to buy a Power Mac and 17-inch Apple monitor for $2000 in 1999. I fear I may never be able buy a new Power Mac again, with or without monitor. (And FYI, I have all of my PCI slots filled, and wish there was another.)

Anyone else notice that the photos on Apple's site do not show the new G5 case (internal arrangement) that has been seen in photos on the rumor sites lately?

sar
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2004

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06/09, 10:09am | report spam | close Reply |
Overpromise underdeliver

Unfortunately, Apple once again overpromises and underdelivers on the desktop. I have been a die hard Mac user for 14 years but I really want to replace my old G3 Beige (since upgraded to 466 MHz G4, CDRW, ATI graphics card, etc.) with another expandable Mac. But come on Apple work with me here!!! Its still costs $2000 to get into the game plus I still need a monitor. This is 2004 were in the h*** is the sub $1200 expandable Macs? Maybe the new iMac will be what I want, but I'm not holding my breath. The eMac is an ugly toy and the current iMac is way too expensive, underpowered, with limited expandability.

Linux on a cheap PC is looking better and better and maybe the final nail in the coffin for Apple unless they actually release a true home user desktop that is competitively priced. Even Sony - a high end PC brand - sells a 3.0 GHz P4 with DVD burner and an 17inch Sony LCD for $1300 after rebate. If Apple offered a single 1.6 GHz G5 in a similar configuration and even priced it a little higher they would sell millions. (Note to Apple; this means the computer needs to be priced under $1200).

Note to Steve; its time to wake up and realize that Apple can't charge 100% premiums over the PC world, I could tolerate the 20-30% premium but please this is insane.

With the exception of the iBook I can no longer make any reasonably sane argument to my friends and family to buy a Mac over a PC. Maybe the new iMac will change this argument maybe Apple will finally over deliver to use home users.

bscepter
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2004

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06/09, 10:19am | report spam | close Reply |
Pro Mac

Listen, unless you're editing film or working as a graphic designer, do you really need a G5? (If you want to play games, get an XBOX��the games look better on it, anyway. Plus, the new XBOX will have three G5 processors.)

The iBook is still a fantastic deal. The eMac is still a fantastic deal. Both these allow "switchers" to get into the sublimely elegant Mac OS for a relatively small chunk of change.

Would I like a dual-processor G5? You bet! Do I need one... er, no.

sar
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2004

0

06/09, 10:19am | report spam | close Reply |
Pro vs consumer Macs

On the more optimistic side, maybe with the new all dual PowerMac lineup Apple is actually establishing a difference between the professional series (all dual G5 config) and a yet unannounced powerful consumer level machine (single processor G5's).

This would make sense since it is unreasonable to expect the home user to spend $2000 for a Powermac and still need to add a monitor. However, a headless iMac with a powerful 1.6-1.8 GHz G5 would offer the home user a powerful yet affordable Mac. Maybe Apple will even price it below $1200 with a Superdrive, 80GB, 512MB RAM and an upgradeable graphics card to address the game market.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

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06/09, 10:20am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: rumored case

Get over it folks, Jobs was overly optimistic. We won't see 3 GHz any time soon.

Actually, it was IBM who was overly optimistic, and Jobs ate into that RDF that IBM espouses, and pushed it on the public.

Now maybe you people understand why apple (or most companies, except MS, who do it for differenct reasons) doesn't like to comment on upcoming products. You say something that should be true, and unforseen problems ensue, and the next thing, you get kicked by everyone for spinning tales out of school.
The most disappointing thing about this update is not the specs, but the further increase in price of the entry-level Power Mac. I was able to buy a Power Mac and 17-inch Apple monitor for $2000 in 1999. I fear I may never be able buy a new Power Mac again, with or without monitor. (And FYI, I have all of my PCI slots filled, and wish there was another.)

Even when they try to be good and only preannounce by a month, like the iPod mini, they get screwed because their suppliers can't meet their demand.

(And isn't this interesting, a year ago, when apple made the 3 GHz claim, no one here yelled and screamed that Apple announced a product that wasn't shipping yet, and you had to wait and all that c***. But then they announce the Airport express or iPod mini, and that's all you hear about. Make up your mind people. Do you want to know what's coming around the corner or don't you!)

chas_m
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

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06/09, 10:22am | report spam | close Reply |
What a bunch of whiners

sar: "I want to replace my beige G3, but can't for less than $2000."
LouZer: "I want to replace my beige G3 and keep my monitor."

Yeah, that mean old Apple, taking all those dual G4 and 1.25GHz single G4 towers off the market, and forcing all those 3rd party dealers to stop selling them! Why, it's *impossible* to get a monitorless Mac for less than $2K now! Why are they being SO MEAN to poor us, who want to replace our nearly 10-year-old machines with something cheap? We're their best customers!

Cripes, what a bunch of freaking BABIES. Please, for the love of pete, BUY A PC AND SHUT THE F**K UP.

Meanwhile, in the real world, a 25% speed increase combined with lower pricing is a good thing. Sure, we're all disappointed that Steve was over-optimistic in his prediction, but it's not the first time that's happened; reality intruded on IBM just as it did on Moto (only not so much, hopefully). It's possible we'll get to 3GHz by MWSF, and really would that be such a bad thing?

Note to the people hoping for G5 iMacs/eMacs/Powerbooks/iBooks in the very near future: FORGET IT. Even putting a 975 into this tower case requires liquid cooling. That's a CLUE, folks -- the G5 runs HOT. This means it will be a while (and some serious redesigning, which doesn't happen overnight) before you can shove a decent-speed G5 chip into a consumer or portable case. Look to early next year at best.

zaphon
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2003

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06/09, 10:23am | report spam | close Reply |
What a shame

I too took Steve on his word, and about 1 month ago got rid of my dual 2.0 before the resell value of it fell (I got 95% of what I put into it, not bad IMHO). I did this in hopes of a 50% increase from, as well as other improvements. Instead I got this. What a dis-appointment. Where is the 3.0's? Where is the Radeon X800? 250GB is still the largest drive? I'm not seeing anything here other than a marginal speed bump, and the same old chassis/motherboard. Didn't all the rumor sites have a rendition of a new motherboard with a new single heat sink design?

Yes Steve did say 12 months, and well even if we take the end of summer, there's no way they would do back to back releases that close together. It just doesn't make sense.

So all in all, thanks for NOTHING Steve.

hayesk
Professional Poster

Joined: Sep 1999

0

06/09, 10:27am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: sar and LouZer

1.6GHz PM G5s should be far less than $2000 now. Go buy one and stop complaining.

Or, buy a PowerBook and connect the 19" monitor to that.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/09, 10:34am | report spam | close Reply |
Sorry

hey, sorry for all the whining here for wanting Apple to sell a current (not a refurb or close-out sale) machine to users at less than what it costs to buy groceries for a year. Yeah, that's being really selfish here, isn't it.

Why don't you get off your high horse and realize that many, many, many people want cheaper hardware from Apple, not necessarily top-of-the-line stuff, just cheaper! One that's somewhat expandable and doesn't force me to use its built-in monitor and such.

What are you people, a bunch of steve-loving idiots or just a bunch of rich, "Hey, I need another BMW, where did I leave that checkbook", types. But apple will still be elitist, on the verge of bankruptcy, NOT the computer for everyone (regardless of what anyone says) if most people can't afford to buy one (or the only one they can afford is a cheapo iMac wanna-bes with small 17" monitors and no way to improve it).

You may call it whining, but, then again, I call your c*** just that, c***.

jimothy
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2000

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06/09, 10:37am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: What a shame?

Wait...let me get this straight...you're disappointed because the new Macs have two heat sinks instead of one? I'll need you to explain to me how that affects your work or daily life.

eswinson
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2002

0

06/09, 10:45am | report spam | close Reply |
possible 3 ghz coming

This may just be recycling of pre prepared marketing materials, but the internal case pictures on the apple site are the old style. Not the the new one shown in the service manual.

kuzelnik
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2000

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06/09, 10:46am | report spam | close Reply |
Damn . . .

I'm really really pissed off . . . I need another BMW and I can't find my checkbook . . .

I guess I'll just have to turn out my pockets and find some pocket change for a top-of-the-line G5 . . . Oh well . . .

scottgriz
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2001

0

06/09, 10:48am | report spam | close Reply |
Not the holy one???

>Steve is not the holy one! He is fallable!!! So stop making excuses for >him, just admit it - he got it WRONG!

He's not? I feel so lost.
At least he didn't say, "Noone needs more than 640Mhz"

paulc
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2000

0

06/09, 10:59am | report spam | close Reply |
Forget 3G Chips...

There's a quote from their hardware marketing guy to "not expect 3G any time soon." And if you want a really hot, next gen video card, the machine needs to go PCI Express.

My question is that 90nm parts should 4run cooler than 130nm parts, clock for clock. So 2.5G 90nm parts should run about what the 2G 130nm part runs. So why liquid cooling? Only explanation I can see is that it isn't really needed, but apple DID want to get systems out in the filed with liquid cooling. I think it's a way to experiment with hardware on a wide scale.

So folks buying dual 2.5G machines are paying for doing beta hardware testing!

Alethiometer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2004

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06/09, 11:05am | report spam | close Reply |
Oh my. Faster and hotter

At first I wondered why on earth there was no mention of the new 90-nanometer cards in these machines. I thought I was missing something. Nope. THEY are missing something.

As far as I can tell, only the firehose 2.5 version has this new more effeciant and much cooler card. -

I am now beginning to think of terms of not buying another desktop at all. It's been far to long and it may be time to consider a laptop only and t he end of desktops alltogether for my needs.

xe0
Forum Regular

Joined: Aug 2003

0

06/09, 11:08am | report spam | close Reply |
Mac users

you guys moan like woman.

Stop acting like Apple owes you something. They owe you s***.
These new Powermacs are damn fine machines, and if you cant do what you explicitly need to do on a dual 2.5GHz G5 system, I suggest you review your methods.

Talleyman
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2002

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06/09, 11:10am | report spam | close Reply |
Bull*hit

"many, many, many people want cheaper hardware from Apple, not necessarily top-of-the-line stuff, just cheaper! One that's somewhat expandable"

BullHOCKEY! You guys want a top of the line machine for what's in your account today...No let me rephrase...You want Apple aka Steve to design a machine that fits your needs (replace my g3, MDD G4, etc) and at a price that fits your paycheck.

Get off your horse my friend! These are PRO level machines with PRO level power. If you are a Power user and want all these features built in, you gotta pay...ala BMW...If you want a cheapo they're available.

Do I want a NEW G5? Yep! Can I afford one? Nope! Damned Apple aka Steve. I can't believe he didn't call me and ask me if this fits my needs!

Does Apple need a cheap machine? Yep! Do they want to serve that market? I dunno...doesn't look like it...but WWDC is coming who knows. Looks like they're banking on iPod and Music products to serve the consumer. Who knows...but Steve's the highest paid CEO In the Valley so he must know something.

STFU and buy or don't.

tman

HeatherEcsedi
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2001

0

06/09, 11:20am | report spam | close Reply |
Still 1 optical drive

Adding a bay for a second drive would be nice...

Zaren
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/09, 11:24am | report spam | close Reply |
Unbelievable

"Didn't all the rumor sites have a rendition of a new motherboard with a new single heat sink design?"

What if they did? They're RUMORS. If they were facts, you'd see them on apple.com.

What is wrong with you people getting your hopes up based on c*** from rumors sites, and then bitching like mad when the rumors don't pan out?

leperkuhn
Senior User

Joined: Feb 2000

0

06/09, 11:31am | report spam | close Reply |
feedback

also, if you dont' like it, go here.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/powermac.html

csimon2
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2000

0

06/09, 11:41am | report spam | close Reply |
G5 imac

One reason for the higher entry price on the low-end G5 may be that Apple is readying a single 1.6 GHz 20" iMac for this summer. This would help further differentiate markets, something which is hard to do when your top of the line consumer machine costs more than your low end pro machine. And, as has been mentioned already, a dual MDD G4 can still be had for $1600 and a single 1.6 G5 is $1600 as well, so there you go for a sub $2k PowerMac.

Blanchard
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Joined: Feb 2003

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06/09, 11:51am | report spam | close Reply |
PRO?????

Some say: "These are PRO level machines with PRO level power"

PRO? With the one of the cheapest video card? A 80 gb hard drive? Bluetooth and Airport in option?

If you call that Pro, man you know nothing about Pro. Just shows how many Mac users are, braggarts who don't know s***.

Apple is gonna lose a lot on this one, just as when they had that ridiculous speed bump 500 -> 550.

But Jobs makes 75 millions a year heh?

They're getting more and more elitists. This is a new era starting, the look-at-my-expensive-ipod era.

Fot the rest of us, Linux is becoming an interesting option. And MacNN a big joke.

Stephen.S.
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2004

0

06/09, 11:57am | report spam | close Reply |
What he said was...

There seems to be some question as to exactly what Jobs said at WWDC 2003, so here it is:

"What about the future? We're at 2Ghz today. IBM and Apple, are today announcing, that within 12 months, we'll be at 3Ghz. 3Ghz (intelligible ), that's up 50%, within 12 months.

The key words here appear to be: "are today announcing" and "within".

kagudesu
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Joined: May 2002

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06/09, 11:58am | report spam | close Reply |
Shut Up

You little b******. Shut UP!

Apple continues to release the best HW and SW out there. They continually innovate and lead the pack. YOU chose to work with the Mac and YOU need to realize it's the BMW of computers. DEAL with it.

If you want to whine all day, buy a Windows machine.

Until then, be happy with the best computer money can buy.

mowogg
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Joined: Aug 2002

0

06/09, 12:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Pro-sumer Line

I Think the idea of the pro line going all DP and the introduction of a pro-sumer single processor series at a lower price point has some merit. The G5 towers are now pretty darn expensive and with the discontinuation of the G4 towers, there is a gaping hole in Apple's product line. The jump from iMac to Pro tower is pretty big and these machines target different market segments. I think we'll see smaller, less expensive single processor machines introduced at WWDC.
I'd bet they�d be based on the 1.6 G5 motherboard. Maybe they'll even be a horizontal orientation to further differentiate from the DP line. It would be nice to see a mid-level headless Mac again. The eMac is a great value, but the 17" monitor built-in is a turn off to many people who would like a larger monitor for graphic design, games etc... It also lacks some of the panache of the other products in the Apple line by being aimed at the Education market.
The iMac is a fabulous machine that is unfortunately too high priced for the consumer market. This is were Apple needs to have a strong Dell competitor. A $1299 desktop with a strong software package and the choice of Apple LCD or third party CRT displays would be very compelling.
It doesn't take a genius to see that the iMac and G5 have not been embraced by the switcher community. Apple seriously needs to expand the installed user base in order to grow the business. Either that or perhaps they intend to continue focusing on the computer/music interface business.
The mac is only part of what Apple is, although for the last 8 to 10 years it seems like that is all Apple is.
Apple may have decided that the choices for survival are head to head competition against Microsoft/Dell or diversification and remodling the company to create less reliance on the Mac platform for profitability.
Everything, with the exception of the iPod/iTunes division seems to get only enough support for basic survival. The server division is mostly under the radar in the enterprise market, G5s are priced at a premium, as are the iMac line. Education is a dying segment (and one that up until a few years ago Apple owned outright) and marketing is almost nonexistent.
Given the way Apple is headed, I predict significantly less revenue being generated by the Mac platform and a greater % being brought in from software and music-related efforts.
How long will it be before Apple ports FCP, DVDSP and the other Pro Applications to Wintel?
If and when that happens it will be a strong indicator that the market for the Mac is seriously in trouble.
Hopefully Apple knows what they are doing and the hubris exhibited in the past in relation to their customers will be avoided in making product decisions.
Phew!

z10n
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Joined: Oct 2003

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06/09, 12:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
Compaints are valid

I don't think the G5 lineup is bad. The biggest problem I have with apple's computer lineup is the inablity in customization. For both eMacs and iMacs, you're basically stuck with both the built-in specs (monitor, cards, etc.) I read about a few eMac tweaks for upgrading the processor, but I haven't seen ANY iMac G4 upgrades. So basically when you grow out of either of these two models, you'll end up buying a whole new computer.

The only way you're assured of being able to upgrade your computer is to buy a powermac, so that means plunking down $2000. But even then, you don't get a top-of-the-line computer, even though $2000 buys you a top-of-the-line computer in the PC world. A Radeon 9800 Pro now costs about $300, yet it's not an option when you buy. If you elect not to get a Superdrive, you can never plug in your own internal DVD-R drive. And other quirks. My 933 MHz G4 didn't come with a line-in port, of all things. The point is, even when you pay $2000, you still don't always get exactly what you want. Typically any options that aren't available cost you full retail price to get them added in. If for example, you want the Radeon 9800 Pro rather then the crappy default card, that will cost you $350, even though you technically what you're doing is NOT buying the default card, which has got to cost at least $100-$200. Why then, isn't the 9800 Pro option $150 (the difference)? Apple nickle and dimes the c*** out of you with stuff like that.

It's just a shame apple keeps doing this. I would love at some point to upgrade to a G5. But I find if I want a halfway decent G5, I'm going to pay $1000 more then I would pay for a decent yet close to top-of-the-line PC. It's just not worth it.

OsakaBill
Forum Regular

Joined: Oct 1999

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06/09, 12:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hobbled?

Hobbled? Please explain.

chas_m
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Joined: Aug 2001

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06/09, 12:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
$2K is *NOTHING.*

Hey all you little pizza-delivery/"would you like fries with that" kids who are bitching about the price:

Um, I can earn $2000 in a single *day* working on one of these machines. WTF is your problem??

Al G
Forum Regular

Joined: Jul 2003

0

06/09, 12:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
Lame

No one has noticed that this (for now) is simply a downgrade of existing machines with a lower price? The 2.5GHz machine doesn't exist yet and until it's available, we just get the same old 1.8 and 2.0 DP machines except now they come with one or more of the following: less RAM, less maximum RAM capacity, smaller HD, lower performance graphics card.

They do get 8X Superdrives but those had already appeared although they weren't advertised as such. And yes, they come with a lower price. But the prices should have been reduced months ago anyway.

The current 1.8 and 2.0 refurbs will disappear immediately because you get more machine for the same (1.8) or lower (2.0) price.

hybrid
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Joined: Apr 2004

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06/09, 12:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
Headless iMac/eMac

Want an entry-level desktop for well under $2000?

Apple has a 1GHz G4 machine starting at $1099, which has video out, USB 2.0, FireWire, and a slim form factor.

http://www.apple.com/ibook/

Plug in a monitor and keyboard and there's your headless iMac.

And hey, as an added bonus, you can unplug it and take it with you!

njfuzzy
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Joined: Apr 2001

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06/09, 01:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
My annual sanity check

Start with the base high-end Mac. Configure a high end Dell to match, modifying each to allow for configurations that are as similar as possible.

PowerMac G5, Dual 2.5 GHz G5, 512 MB DDR400 RAM, 250GB SATA HD, ATI Radeon 9600 XT (128 MB), 56k Modem, 8x SuperDrive. $3099.

Dell Precision Workstation 650, Dual 2.4 GHz Xeon, 612 MB DDR266 RAM, 250 GB SATA HD, nVidia QuadroFX 500 (128 MB), 56k Modem, 8x DVD-R, 48x CD (No CD-R). $3300.

This is just about the closest I could get. The software bundles are both the minumim, both have keyboard, mouse, etc. Neither has a monitor.

Of course, this is comparing a lower-end processor on the Dell with Apple's top of the line, to keep GHz closer, and Dell won't sell you a machine that burns both CDs and DVDs. Try configuring this with the dual 3.2 GHz Xeons at the top of the line at Dell, and using just a Combo drive in both, and the prices end up at $2999 for the Mac, and $5149 for the Dell.

Why do people always say Apple charges a price premium?

klinux
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

06/09, 01:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hee hee

Whatever, chas m, with I can earn $2k a day. You mean to say on a good day, you can earn up to $2k a day BUT that doesn't happen every day and most days are you are not earning close to $2k. As much as I like to trash on the immature children on this board, you are sound like just another one of them.

PM have been selling slowly, something Wall Street and Apple have acknowledged. While I think the 2,5 is interesting (and no, I would not call them liquid cooled, PC world has these I.C.E. kind of fans for at least a year), the $1999 dual 1.8 is just a poor value. For $2k, Apple is giving me a machine with 256MB RAM, 80 GB HD, and a 64MB video card???

No matter how you spin it, you cannot defend a poor value like this!

Good luck Apple. Ready for another quarter of declining market share, poor PM sales, but great iPod sales, however.

- a disappointed Mac user and fan

Jablabla
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Joined: Jan 2000

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06/09, 01:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
none the less

an improvement...

The machines are nice. Always a bit nervous about rev a machines. I'm sure these will have the kinks removed.

Processor speed is not as important anymore. What I'd like to see is getting rid of the hard drive. I want non volatile storage that has no moving parts. Focusing on faster buses and reducing the number of chips is the way to go. You want quite get rid of the hard drive.

Liquid cooling sounds interesting. But I get a little worried how long it will work. My B&W mac is going strong now after rougly 5 years. Would it spring a leak in 5 years?

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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06/09, 01:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Headless iMac

Want an entry-level desktop for well under $2000?
Apple has a 1GHz G4 machine starting at $1099, which has video out, USB 2.0, FireWire, and a slim form factor.

http://www.apple.com/ibook/

Plug in a monitor and keyboard and there's your headless iMac.

And hey, as an added bonus, you can unplug it and take it with you!

Well, except the external monitor only runs at 1024x768. And its mirrored, and won't run with the lid down.

What you people are missing is apple has no computer for the non-highend graphic artists types. These machines are great if you're doing video and audio. That's fine. But that's one small market. What about companies that want to go all mac. They either have to spend $$$$$ on these towers, $$$$ on iMacs with built-in LCDs (plus the $250+ for the applecare because you're screwed after a year if the lcd blows a light), or $$$ for an emac. None of which allows a company to use existing hardware in stock.

But apple is ignoring COMPLETELY the home power-user market. The people who want to use a nice 23" display, but can't afford that AND a $2000 computer. So they have to make concessions. So its either get the computer you don't want (eMac or iMac) and forget about the display, or get the the computer you do want, and forget the display, or, well, get the display and a computer that's 'good enough' for a lot less from Dell.

I don't expect a $500 G5. An up-to-date and supported $1000 G4 would be a nice starting point (BTW, the OS 9 G4's are on their way outs, get them while supplies last). There are reasons Apple's Mac sales have lagged for the last 2 years. Because they're way overpriced for a majority of the market. What is so hard about doing to the towers what the did to the iBooks/PowerBooks, fitting a myriad of price ranges and needs.

God, you apologists need to look at the real world instead of your "Steve-is-great-and-you-shut-up!" world.

pjr157
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Joined: Oct 2000

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06/09, 01:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
G5, iMac, and Everything

I want a G5. But I can't afford it because I have other things to spend money on.

The lack of a 3GHz may mean they can't make them in quantities to keep up with demand. It probably has more to do with IBM than Apple. And maybe a Voodoo curse.

The big development is liquid cooling. This is important for two reasons: 1) It means that Apple is paving the way for even faster processors and 2) G5 Powerbooks are no longer a possiblity, they are an eventuality. Apple will work the kinks out of the desktop system and improve it for introduction into laptops.

A headless iMac would be nice, but that's what the iMac is for. Boo hoo, you have to get rid of your CRT. You'll save money on your electric bill with the iMac's LCD. If you want a desktop, buy a MDD from eBay or pick up one of the few Apple has left.

I would like to see better monitor support for the iBook and Powerbook. Surely it wouldn't be hard to rewrite the firmware so that they won't sleep with a second monitor attached, so that you could buy a monitor to use with them. Someone wrote a program that would keep the powerbook away when it was closed (useful for warwalking), but it doesn't work too well. Maybe Apple could improve on it to create a whole new way to use your laptop. Maybe it's already in Tiger?

Feeling_Macish
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Joined: Mar 2004

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06/09, 01:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
Details please

on the liquid in the liquid cooling. Water? Antifreeze? Mercury? Do users have to change it every so often? Flush the system? Can it leak onto other components? Is the radiator hose easily punctured? is there a radiator?

scottgriz
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Joined: Sep 2001

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06/09, 01:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Upgradability-iMac/eMac

The iMac line with a built in monitor is a wonderful machine for the beginner computer user. But what about those who want something that the can grow with? Even my Commodore 64 had an expansion slot and a choice of monitor. Back in the "Get online now" days, the iMac made sense. Now, Apple needs to rethink their low end and midline market. The iMac is an overpriced non-upgradable machine.
There is virtually no spread between the high end iMac and the low end G5. Why would I spend $2199 on a 20inch iMac? I can get a Dual G5 for $1999 and throw $400 at a pretty serious CRT monitor and have mucho expansion options and upgradability for only a small amount more.
People need to not feel like they are being cheated by buying the lower end.
Buying an iMac, you may be getting a complete system, but you have no upward mobility. Apple basically takes the extra $200 and delivers you a machine you will need to upgrade again anyhow and they know that.
Apple could make many people very happy by going back to delivering 0/0 configurations. I would love to get my hands on a dual G5 with no ram and no Hard drives. Maybe even leave out the video card and let people decide. Can you imagine how many people would jump on a machine like that? Then you have options, not this tiered marketing that either makes you feel like you should jump higher or that you got ripped off for what you settled for.

klinux
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

06/09, 01:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not liquid cooling

What Apple has in the dual 2.5 is a passive heatpipe - not real liquid cooling.

Jablabla
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Joined: Jan 2000

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06/09, 01:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
still not sure

I've been trying to convince myself to buy a new computer these last few years.

Bottom line is my 500mhz g4 cpu upgraded blue and white mac works great. Replaced my old clunk sony crt with a nec flat screen. Upgraded the ram to 1 gig. Storage issue? Ya, thats a problem. But I think I can get a nice fire wire drive. Os 10.3 works wonderful on the box. Got my unix command line, I can play DVDs and listen to itunes. Can run all the great open source software on the box. Your everyday stuff works just fine.

So, what am I looking for?

1. Faster app launches. Well, when you click on an app your cpu is basically waiting for the the harddrive to spin 1 revolution. So, faster cpu is not going to improve that.
2. secure web pages are a bit slow. Now a faster cpu would help me there.
3. Games. My old ati card is not up to par anymore. Always thought ati sucked. The relationship that will not die.
4. Need more disk space.
5. Noise. I hate noisy computers. I also hate computers that generate to much heat. Have you noticed your computer room gets hotter than the rest of the house?

4 is solved by a fire wire drive. Problem 3 is not as compelling anymore...you grow up some day. 1,2 and 5 are what compel me. But I'll wager the new macs still launches apps slow.

One more thing, I would not consider a mac if OS X was not the top of its class. OS X is simply the best OS bar none. As a warning, my 2.4 ghz p4 emachine works well also. The emachines box cost $500. But the emachines box runs xp which is a total security hole.

PookJP
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2001

0

06/09, 01:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
I'm Switching...

religions. I was told Steve Jobs was God and was capable of controlling all aspects of this planet. Apparently he's not a strong enough God to create 3GHz chips, and that's not a God I want to believe in.

beeble
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Joined: Mar 2004

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06/09, 01:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: 100 MHz short

"For just once, i'd like Apple to 'surprize' everyone"

Yeah, I really saw the flat panel iMac coming, or the original iMac for that matter. I really was expecting the original G5 to be a 64 bit machine that blew the socks off the competition. I yawned as the XServe was announced and couldn't understand people praising OS X as revolutionary. Hardly surprising at all.

In other news today, Apple Computer single handedly has landed a man on Mars and discovered a thriving civilisation up there. Steve Jobs has announced plans for the Olympus Mons Apple Store to open by years end. Back on Earth people are complaining that Apple hasn't colonised Mars already and isn't exploring the moons of Jupiter and Saturn even though NASA still can't make it out of Earth Orbit.

Some people are just born with a complaining gene.

t_c
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Joined: May 2002

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06/09, 02:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
Complaining?

I guess I was complaining to some degree, my thoughts are more along the entire line of PPC chips, ever since the "Exponential" (maybe wrong name) chip promising 500 Mhz that didn't deliver to the days of Motorola that really couldn't deliver to now. I realize all chip manufacturers are having issues going with 90 nm chips, but it just has the "it's still happening" feel to it.

Yup, I guess you could say I'm using half of one of the complaining genes.

robguz
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Joined: Nov 2002

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06/09, 02:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Great update...

If it had come out in January along with a price cut. 5 months later, simply pathetic.

dar2
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Joined: May 2004

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06/09, 02:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
These prices ar LOW!!

I remember when a Mac II cost almost $10,000, and didn't even have a video card, hard drive, RAM, keyboard or anything else! $3,000 for a top-of-the-line machine is a small investment, considering my hourly rate for design! If you are not a professional (and not rich), then get a eMac or iMac...

Nostromo
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Joined: Oct 2001

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06/09, 03:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: What a shame

"I too took Steve on his word, and about 1 month ago got rid of my dual 2.0 before the resell value of it fell (I got 95% of what I put into it, not bad IMHO). I did this in hopes of a 50% increase from, as well as other improvements. Instead I got this. What a dis-appointment. Where is the 3.0's?"

You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking. No one could possibly be THAT stupid to SELL their machine based on something Steve said last year.

I guess there really IS a sucker born every minute.

dru
Senior User

Joined: Apr 2002

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06/09, 03:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Disappointment acceptable

"I was able to buy a Power Mac and 17-inch Apple monitor for $2000 in 1999. I fear I may never be able buy a new Power Mac again, with or without monitor."

Let me get this straight: you were able to pay $2000 back in 1999 but are complaining that Apple's asking $2000 now? Have you ever heard of budgeting? Saving up for something you want? Give me a break already. Buy a piggy bank and slap "Mac fund" on it or get a PC and live with Windows.

We all know IBM's had production problems, why is anyone here surprised Apple couldn't make the alleged 'one year to 3GHz' jump? Sometimes reality doesn't conform regardless of the best of intentions or effort. Cest la vis. Get over it. Since it's hardware and there are physical issues to overcome, this isn't like that b****** Finder in OSX which has *NO* excuses for being a blight on users but it is, in spades.

iamnoone
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Joined: Jul 2003

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06/09, 03:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: PRO???

"PRO? With the one of the cheapest video card? A 80 gb hard drive? Bluetooth and Airport in option?
If you call that Pro, man you know nothing about Pro. Just shows how many Mac users are, braggarts who don't know s***."

No Blanchard, you are the one who doesn't understand what the meaning of PRO is. Pro does not mean gaming or syncing your cel phone with bluetooth or accessing the internet with a non moving desktop wirelessly. It means having the raw power to crunch video or audio or graphics at top speed. The video card itself is more than sufficient to view all these things with no lag time. Gaming would be the only arena where the video card may be lacking, but that is not a "Pro" application. Those of us that work on these boxes professionally(final cut pro and such) know that processor speed, bus bandwidth and memory are the three most critical things needed for a "pro" box. As far as the hard drive goes, that is also sufficient for most needs. In our business(high end video editing), many users are now using external fiber storage, most often shared fiber. I don't what you're definition of Pro is, but you don't seem to have a clue. Those of use who actually do "Pro" work such as myself would love to be able to work on these monsters. Render times would be cut to a minimum and the amount of real time FX would be great. I apologize for the tone of this response, but I take offense to your ignorance and your unnecessary bashing of others. So what is it exactly that you do that is so "Pro" that these new boxes would not suite your needs??? I doubt there's anything you could possible do professionally that these machine wouldn't be able to handle....so who's really the braggart here who doesn't know s***??? Mirror please......

hybrid
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Joined: Apr 2004

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06/09, 03:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
iBook G4

An up-to-date and supported $1000 G4 would be a nice starting point

Isn't the 1GHz iBook G4 exactly that machine?

zaphon
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Joined: Mar 2003

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06/09, 03:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
Stupid?

"You're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking. No one could possibly be THAT stupid to SELL their machine based on something Steve said last year."

No not stupid, just protecting my investment. Sure I could have waited until the announcment and than made a decision, but what if they had announced 3Ghz machines? My $3000 dollar investment would now be worth less than $2500 (the price for a new one). As is I managed to get rid of mine prior to any announcements, for a price more than they now sell new for ($2800). So all in all, I'm out about $200 dollars for me being able to use a dual 2.0 G5 for 9 months. That's not bad.

Yes I'm dis-appointed. I really could utilize the extra 1Ghz per CPU (do a lot of Final Cut Pro/DVD Studio Pro work and rendering even on a Dual 2.0 is still slower than I would like, and hence cuts into my ability to make money). But this will in no way move me to a PC. I'm gonna hold out and see if we don't see another rev, and than I'll make my decision. But for now, I could buy a new 2.0 and I'd be $300 ahead.

So what you call stupid, I call pretty smart planning on my part.

eribas
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Joined: Jan 2004

0

06/09, 03:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
A little disappointed...

The biggest disappointment is not the processor speed itself, its everything else. The graphics cards are a joke. They should have gone with PCIe and announced the X800, X600, and 6800 Ultra as options in that area. The single optical bay is less than desirable. They should have stuck two in there (or one of the old 5-disc drives from years ago, only a 5-disc DVD+/-RW). And in terms of hard drive space, they should have 4 bays max instead of 2. Airport and bluetooth shouldn't be an add-on, it should just be part of the system like USB and Firewire. And RAM should be 512, 512, 1024 for the minimum of the three lines.

Pricing for the above should match with what they want for the current lineup of $1999, $2499, and $2999.

iamnoone
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Joined: Jul 2003

0

06/09, 03:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Stupid?

How is it that rendering with a slow dual 2gig G5 cuts into your ability to make money, but not having having a computer at all doesn't??? Makes no sense....Like I said previously, I work professionally on FCP everyday and the company I work at cranks out between 300 and 400 shows a year that air on various different networks. The funny thing is we still work on dual 1.25 G4's and the company has had no problems whatsoever making money. I also have a G5 system at home with FCP and I can say that render speeds on that are astronomical in comparison to what we use at work. You are certainly not losing any money on render speeds on these things....that is a fact! Perhaps you are the one who is slow??? In fact you would be hard pressed to find an AVID system that would even comes close to the speed of your G5....so please enlighten me to how you are losing money? Not to mention if you were making money with this box then you would have charged a rental fee for usage and the box would have paid for itself through your jobs already, making your year long twisted amortization a moot point....you people are almost laughable and I don't understand all this bitching....

trancepriest
Forum Regular

Joined: Mar 2004

0

06/09, 04:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Zaphor, your an idiot!

How does being out of a computer make you more productive?

LordJohnWhorfin
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Joined: Aug 2002

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06/09, 04:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
Reminds me of the G4

Remember when they were stuck at 500MHz for over a year? Let's hope we're not in for a repeat performance.
That would really, really suck.

anakin27705
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Joined: Jul 2000

0

06/09, 04:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
Question for iamnoone:

Question for iamnoone:
I'm looking to go from Dual 1 Gig G4 (1.5 GB RAM) to the older dual 2 Gig G5 (1.5 GB RAM w/ free upgrade) which is available now for $2500. Is there really an appreciable difference for PS, FCP, and DVDSP? FCP has started to crawl on much larger projects and I'd like to get into Motion.

Or will the 2.5 make a noticable difference?

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/09, 04:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: stupid

Well, that's all great for you and all, but my point is that the current Apple line-up of desktop machines is:
1) High-end machines for digital audio/video work
2) low-end iMacs and emacs with built-in displays.

Where's the middleware for those of us who don't use our computers to put together crappy TV shows and infomercials, but want an expandable machine for our work? There's no middle ground, and you idiots don't understand that. We're not either secretaries or school kids who can deal with iMacs and eMacs with built-in displays. We don't want hobbled laptops, with their slower processors, slower busses, slower drives, etc. We want something that has some expandibility (you know, maybe to swap out the video card, or put in a second one for multiple monitor support, or add in a second ethernet card or whatever), something that contains something along the line of current tech (G4/G5, it don't matter, but FW800, USB 2.0, audio in/out, that kind of thing). The only thing close to this is the close-out G4 towers, but these are Jan 2003 models, and don't have any new tech in them.

But what's all your suggestions on this? Buy one from eBay! Great, just what I want, a refurbed computer, no warranty coverage, and who knows what's its been through until you get it (assuming you get it and weren't just scammed).

Here's an idea. What if Apple, of all companies, actually offered such a computer themselves! Gee, and they'd actually be able to profit from it, because, rather then resellers getting the money, they'd get the money! Wow!

Basically, Apple says this: If you want all-in-one low-end stuff (although calling a $2000 iMac low-end is crazy), we're your company. If you want really high-end computers, we're you're man (for a price, which you'd expect for high-end). If you fit in the other 50% of the computing world, we don't want to deal with you. Stop bothering us. Go buy a dell.

And I just don't understand how this company's marketshare isn't going through the roof!

droosan
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2001

0

06/09, 04:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Where is it

It was dumb of Jobs to say "3GHz next year." I thought it was dumb to say it the moment he said it. A lot of people thought, "I'll just wait for the 3Ghz machines." Even if he believed it, he shouldn't have said it.

Without that stupid prediction, this is a decent upgrade. Wintels aren't increasing proc speed 25% right now.

Note that Apple has delivered liquid cooling, not Dell. Of course, Dell will be tearing a G5 apart next month and should have their own liquid-cooled machine in about 9 months. They will then advertise it as the eighth wonder of the world.

Apple will never be able to match the predictions of all the rumor sites, so people will always b****.

kuzelnik
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Joined: Mar 2000

0

06/09, 04:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
OMFG

I can't believe the rage in this forum over a few Mhz and a few dollars. Apple's product line is clearly delineated for pros and average consumers. If you can't afford the Pro line, then you belong in the consumer line. If you're in the Consumer category, I can think of worse things to be stuck with than a G4 iMac. Give up that 17" CRT for an iMac with an LCD.

Wake up and smell the coffee. If you can't afford a BMW, buy a friggin' Honda . . .

iamnoone
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Joined: Jul 2003

0

06/09, 04:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
Response to Anakin27705

Yes there is a significant difference between the two especially in render times and responsiveness in FCP. PS will only show it's difference on very large files. DVDSP you will also gain quite a large benefit in terms of mpeg compression times and multiplexing. I think that the difference will be good enough from a dual 1 gig g4 to a dual 2 gig g5....of course the 2.5 will be faster, but I think you'll be quite happy with the 2's. Larger projects should be a lot better on the G5 too. As far as motion goes, it should be night and day. I was at the Apple release at NAB and it appears motion is going to require some serious power to function smoothly.....but it should be very cool once it's released.

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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06/09, 05:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: OMFG

I don't want a honda. I want an Acura. But Apple's not offering an Acura.

z10n
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Joined: Oct 2003

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06/09, 05:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Can I say one thing here?

Predictably, there are a lot of posts here that are from people who expected something differently from apple, and an equal amount of posts from people attacking those other people.

Could we back up a second? Look, barring the person who want's apple to invent perpetual motion, people aren't asking for extremely impossible things. It's apple's job as the company to bring to the table products people want, not people's responsiblity to look at what apple has, pray to the Alter of Steve, and thank apple for giving them something "good enough". It's irrational to think people work that way. I love apple as much as the next mac fan, but if apple doesn't deliver, that's APPLE's fault, not mine. Apple can't change what people want, they can only change their products to match what people want.

Here's an analogy. I walk past a toy store with my 4 year old son. Here's the exchange:

"Ooooh, Daddy! I want that toy!"
"No son, you don't want that toy. It's too much money."
"Why can't they make it less money?"
"Because then the company would make it would go out of business, and they wouldn't make any more toys."
"But Daddy, I want that toy!"

People's wants are irrational, but they that doesn't make them any less real. The company that made that toy may refuse to lower the price, either that's because it's worth, that's how much they think it's worth, or any number of reasons. But what happens in most cases? I go off and buy my son a toy that costs less money. The company that made the toy my son saw didn't get my money, and another company did.

All I'm saying is, a company that blames their lack of success on people's irrational buying habits is not going to be a successful company. The market adjusts itself for what people can afford.

So when people go off on their comments like: "Don't like it? Switch to windows!", it really drives me nuts. Ultimately, that's what people have done, otherwise the mac market share would be higher. However, there IS a market for products with certain configurations and certain price points from APPLE. What's sad is, people WANT to buy from apple- they desperately want it. Apple has a great brand, and people are really into what their design department can do. But if apple can't make products that people want, ultimately they are going to give up and switch to windows. That's APPLE's fault, not the fault of the people who want what they want. Apple's job is to respond, and if they don't, then it's their own fault as to what happens.

iamnoone
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Joined: Jul 2003

0

06/09, 05:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
testudo

I feel your pain....I really do....but what exactly is all the jumping up and down on these boards going to accomplish? I would imagine that if there was someone here who could grant your wish they would. I know the boards are a place to discuss, critique, b****, applaud and vent frustration, but give it a rest already. You're like a little kid who keeps threatening to hold his breath until his parents give him what he wants...I 'm sorry to say, but no one here can help you find the ultimate middle ground computer....perhaps you can start a daily regiment of e-mail to apple to let them know how you feel....maybe if you do it enough they'll start listening to you and some of the others around here.

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/09, 06:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
New feature

Saw this on Macfixit:

MacFixIt has learned that the just-announced updated Power Mac G5 models are the first to include Apple's new "System Migration" feature. Apple's website states:

"Apple simplicity lets you add a Power Mac G5 to your creative studio without days of downtime configuring a new system. The new Mac OS X setup assistant helps you effortlessly move user accounts, system preferences, documents and applications from an old Mac to a new Power Mac G5 -- and the transfer is FireWire fast."

klinux
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

06/09, 07:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
Well Said

z10n wrote "So when people go off on their comments like: "Don't like it? Switch to windows!", it really drives me nuts. Ultimately, that's what people have done, otherwise the mac market share would be higher."

Well said, Mac users are on the one hand, the most friendly, but on the other hand, the most virulent group of people I know.

Seriously, how can anyone defend a $2000 machine that has 256MB RAM and 80GB as a Pro machine is beyond me. Ultimately, six months later we will hear the same thing from Apple, the press, and Wall Street: "Uh, Powermac is not selling, our market share is down... but wait, look over there! iPod sale is up!"

iamnoone
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Joined: Jul 2003

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06/09, 07:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE: Well Said

You got a beef with me Klinux??? If so why don't you come out and say so instead of posting your snide little pot shot. The reason it is "beyond you" is because you tend to be a bit dense...in fact, you're the same idiot who's posted at least three times on two different boards how the new G5's aren't liquid cooled even though they most certainly are....so since you're so smart, them what part of my posts about the G5's being a Pro machine don't you understand...remember those of us who are working with professional material on professional level boxes have the dough to upgrade the RAM for crying out loud. Not to mention anyone with half a brain knows that RAM is cheaper through third parties than through apple anyway....I can't wait to hear your response....please humor me smart guy.

Tikas
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Joined: May 2000

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06/09, 09:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
PRO???

Some people say that all current line PowerMacs G5 are PRO machines. But G5 modification with 80Gb HD and 2*128Mb DIMM with only 2 slots left unfilled is far away from meaning PRO. It's nicier now with 2 processors @1.8Ghz each but in very expensive products as G5 hard drive should be 160-250Gb at the moment and if you have only 4 slots for memory = please put at least 512Mb, PROs can't do any job with 256Mb w/out getting nervous when have to wait looong time while you just change the program... Won't cost a lot, 160Gb is about 30 EUR more expensive than 80Gb, 512Mb of memory (2*256Mb instead of silly slot occupants 2*128Mb) can cost the same 30 EUR more if you buy them in reasonable q-ties. These are regular dealer prices differences between HD which are put into G5 (Seagate, Maxtor) and Samsung or Hynix memory if you buy in at least in tens without VAT (Around 16-21% in Europe), so lets put hughe Apple margin and this machine sells at 100 EUR extra. What we get in Apple store Irealand let's say? They add 180 EUR, 80 for RAM and 110 for HD, this is how Steve does it... sorry, does silly money.... Please Steve don't save these 60 EUR next time, save the PRO name, it's really hard to sell cheapest configuration G5, it makes any IT prodessional smile...
With current slowest G5 configuration it's a box to put instead old G3 at home, not in PRO place, but the price is like 3-4 fast PCs w/out monitor...

klinux
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Joined: Jul 2002

0

06/09, 11:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
iamnoone

Man, iamnoone, you need to take a chill pill. Are you paranoid or insecure hence your thinking I am taking secretive pot shot at you?

I will bring my other point here: Apple is using a heatpipe in its dualie 2.5ghz. Calling it liquid cooled is s*** marketing speak and a slight exaggeration becasue liquid cooled in the computer world almost always mean an active system with blocks, tubes, and pump. A heatpipe is just that, a heatpipe - not a "super ultra passive liquid cooling closed evaporative system" and whatnot. I stand by that.

Plenty of people pointed out that a 256 RAM and 80GB HD is not a Pro machine. Previous release of single 1.8 is released with 512MB and 160GB. What part of Apple downgrading the RAM and HD on dualie plus getting rid of a 133Mhz PCI-X slot screams PRO to you?

Look, if I buy a Porsche and I expect it to not come with 14" wheels. The low-end is just screaming cheap to me.

Oh, btw, don't pull that "I work on professional material on professional box" s*** here. While there are plenty of kids on this board, there are professionals here as well. My working on the datwarehousing team for a Fortune 500 company and now at a company with 42b market cap gives me enough experience to comment on what is pro and what is not.

sehix
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Joined: Sep 2000

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06/10, 12:48am | report spam | close Reply |
G5 and heatpipe

klinux, the company I work for bought a G5/2GHzDP to tear down for competitive analysis. I sat in on part of the tear down. The heatsinks in the original G5 contain heatpipes. (For that matter, some of Apple's recent laptops also use heatpipes for part of their cooling system.)

The new 2.5GHz G5 goes one step past the heatpipes, which are still used in the other G5's announced today.

You might want to be more careful about what you "stand by".

freeandunmuzzled
Forum Regular

Joined: Jul 2001

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06/10, 01:00am | report spam | close Reply |
Klinux

"My working on the datwarehousing team for a Fortune 500 company and now at a company with 42b market cap gives me enough experience to comment on what is pro and what is not."

http://www.apple.com/powermac/
what does it say?
"Engineered for the CREATIVE CLASS"

not the datawarehousing class. go get Linux. it's cool and it makes a great server, but for creative pro's its as useful as a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

kuzelnik
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06/10, 01:08am | report spam | close Reply |
Um nooo . . .

Stand by whatever you want klinux . . . but your arrogance only shows your ignorance . .

Define it however you like, but 256MB RAM and an 80GB HD is acceptable as the bottom line of a "Pro" configuration. Notice I said "acceptable" . . not "great" . . . It's something upon which to build. And if PCI-X is such a dealbreaker for you, then you're using high-end applications which would require a faster machine and therefore the upper models have it. Otherwise the speed difference isn't anything to write home about.

Any "Pro" level user with half a brain can figure out to order the minimum configuration of a particular PRO model and add HDs, RAM or whatever for much cheaper than if you do a BTO option. The BTO option is for large companies who can't be bothered with hunting down deals or spending time installing extras . . they want it ready to go (more or less) on arrival. Remember, this is the PRO line and nobody cares about whether or not Apple housewives can install RAM themselves or not. The individuals who want deals will drop in their own stuff instead of paying inflated prices (Dell and others do this too . . so it's not Apple-specific).

If you compare the specs/benchmarks of PCs in the "PRO" range, that also confirms the class delineation between consumer power and pro power. Datawarehousing is for servers so maybe you should focus your critiques on the G5 XServe. And market caps have very little relevance on whether a company uses/needs "PRO" machines or not. It's clear that in your case it has none whatsoever.

klinux
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

06/10, 03:32am | report spam | close Reply |
Ho ho

Wow, all sorts of zealots coming out of the woodwork!

I am not aware the rev a G5s contain heatpipes. In fact, no other site or person I know has ever made that claim. If true, it would be something new I learned and that is cool. Can you provide any other source to backup that claim beside you said you've seen it? Also, since you claim that 2.5ghz dualies go beyond that and warned me about what I choose to standby, I would love to see if and how you know something that, again, no one else seems to know. I would be glad to admit I am wrong when it is shown that I am wrong.
*************
Okay guys, since freeandunmuzzled authoritatively proclaimed G5 to be for the creative class only, if you are not using it to do creative work, you are not allow to own it!!!!
**************
I said I was a professional. My previous work was in datewarehousing. I work with DBAs, data architects, programmers, PMs, users, creatives, etc. And I mentioned market cap as an indicator that I am not working in a one-man IT shop think he or she has seen what enterprise level computing and needs are like. And from this background, I am telling you that we, professionals, do not expect 256MB with 80GB from a $2000 pro machine.

David Esrati
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Joined: Jun 1999

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06/10, 07:13am | report spam | close Reply |
why I whine-

My plea for a low end headless or a mid level entry machine without a display is because I try to get my clients to switch.
It' impossible.
I own an ad agency that specializes in building underdogs into the top dog.
Recently we went into a 67 year old family-owned music store to help them compete with the superstores, web competitiors and ebay. They had dial up access with 5 aged PC's on the floor-
could I get them on Mac's- no way. The price differential was impossible to explain.
Do I wish they had Mac's- yes- it would make my job a lot easier- but buying old G4 machines to put on their sales floor or old egg shaped iMacs instead of brand new Dell's-didn't sound like a good option to them or me.
Loss of market share is what killed Beta- it's slowly doing the same thing to the Mac- if you don't believe is, stop drinking the Kool-aid that a 75 million dollar take home brings. Apple needs installed base.
A $600 headless G4 based box would have given me a chance- a $2000 one is impossible. Businesses don't throw away working monitors- when they don't have to.
How much easier it would have been to network the people, teach them how to put their product pictures on ebay- create music on a computer- but no- Steve only want's to sell Porsch.
think about it-
it's not a whine- it's reality-
and if you want developers to continue to take the mac seriously you need the larger installed base.

jonbwfc1
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Joined: Nov 2003

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06/10, 07:23am | report spam | close Reply |
Hmm...

"and if you want developers to continue to take the mac seriously you need the larger installed base."

I first heard that in.. what, 1990? If anything was going to make Mac developers desert it was the switch over from OS 9 to OS X. Otherwise anyone who was making money developing for Mac then is going to make as much developing for Mac now. whether the market share is 4% or 8% isn't going to change that bottom line.

z10n
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Joined: Oct 2003

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06/10, 09:52am | report spam | close Reply |
What's with this?

I don't understand all the comments claiming "x** here is PRO", blah blah blah. Who are you people to say what a pro level machine is? Further, who are you to dictate what kind of person can buy/use what kind of computer? I resent the fact apple calls these G5s for "creative professionals". Do they come with Photoshop built-in? Does apple make special modifications to the OS to make them work better for "creative professionals"? No. Apple does none of those things. The only thing that makes these computers more suitable for "professionals" is the fact they have faster processors and more bandwidth. That's it.

Would a "professional" typically need a faster, more powerful system? Of course. But it seems to me, rather then building true differentiation into their product line, apple would rather instead force people into little boxes. "This computer suits this person." But what about people like me? Me, I want a powerful computer because I want something I'm not going to replace anytime soon, because I play games, and because powerful computers that are cheap and have the speed that I want exist on the PC side.

Whereas Apple, Apple does things like take a given processor, and UNDERCLOCK it so that it fits what they consider a different market. No lie. There are reports on the web of people who took eMacs, messed with the jumpers, and bumped up their processor speed fairly high with NO DEFECTS. That tells me a few things about apple. For one, it tells me that faster processors do not always cost apple more then apple would like to have us all believe. If apple can afford to charge less for an eMac, even though it's potentially using the exact same processor as a higher-end mac, then obviously that tells me that apple is using processor speed to inflate prices. (Maybe all companies do this, but that's besides the point.) For another, it tells me apple could easily afford raising the processor speed of their lower end models, because they've already got faster processors built into them. They just choose not to do so. Why? Because they like being able to charge $4000 for their top of the line macs. If they dumb down the lower end macs enough, then it compells the "middle grade" people like me to fork up the cash for a higher end mac, rather then buy something they are going to regret in 3 years when they find that they can't upgrade their computer and have to buy a whole new one.

So now you see the real reason why apple builds monitors into their lower end macs like the eMac and iMac. Because it makes their G5 line look more compelling. Since I've proved above that the lower end macs aren't always "lower" in processor speed, is there any reason why can't apple make a product line with this lineup: three computers with the same processor, but just with different configurations of RAM, extra cards, HD size, or variety of software? The truth is, apple could easily do that. They just ch

macs4all
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Joined: Aug 2003

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06/10, 05:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
Orders of Magnitude

>At least he didn't say, "Noone needs more than 640Mhz"

If we are keeping it correct (Bill Gates saying 'No one needs more than 640KB), then it would be 'No one needs more than 640KHz (!!!)

flask
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Joined: May 2004

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06/10, 10:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: $2K is NOTHING.

Um, I can earn $2000 in a single *day* working on one of these machines. WTF is your problem??

Are you serious? So if you work 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, you earn $520,000 a year thanks to your PowerMac? Must be nice. I imagine I could afford several PowerMacs on that salary, and a few cinema displays to boot.

I, on the other hand, am earning $88 a day working on a G4 PowerMac. Maybe I should convince my boss to get me a G5 so I too can be showered with riches.

Gonzo89
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Joined: Sep 2003

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07/30, 03:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
liquid cooling

I personally need "liquid cooling" to vent my irritation at Apple and IBM for this sad performance. Oh well, at least Intel blew it too.

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Apple debuts new dual-2.5GHz Power Mac G5

updated 08:35 am EDT, Wed June 9, 2004

Apple revamps G5 line

Related Articles

Recent Articles

Thumbs Down

oh wow!

dual 1,8

and next...

re: oh wow!

Whoo hoo!

Blows

re: 100 MHz short

$2000?

Liquid

Re: oh wow

I`ll wait for the 3GHz..

2000 too much, get an ema

Immature whining

re: blows

90 nm chips

Just FYI

driving away customers

Gap

Soooo

Re: get an emac

Uh

550?

"A Year Later..."

$2,000 Base

re: Blows

rumored case

Overpromise underdeliver

Pro Mac

Pro vs consumer Macs

Re: rumored case

What a bunch of whiners

What a shame

Re: sar and LouZer

Sorry

Re: What a shame?

possible 3 ghz coming

Damn . . .

Not the holy one???

Forget 3G Chips...

Oh my. Faster and hotter

Mac users

Bull*hit

Still 1 optical drive

Unbelievable

feedback

G5 imac

PRO?????

What he said was...

Shut Up

Pro-sumer Line

Compaints are valid

Hobbled?

$2K is *NOTHING.*

Lame

Headless iMac/eMac

My annual sanity check

Hee hee

none the less

Re: Headless iMac

G5, iMac, and Everything

Details please

Upgradability-iMac/eMac

Not liquid cooling

still not sure

I'm Switching...

re: 100 MHz short

Complaining?

Great update...

These prices ar LOW!!

Re: What a shame

Disappointment acceptable

Re: PRO???

iBook G4

Stupid?

$2K is NOTHING.