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http://www.macnn.com/articles/04/05/25/column.compares.macs.islam/

Column: "What do Macs and Islam have in common?"

updated 12:20 am EDT, Tue May 25, 2004

Column compares Macs/Islam

SFGate.com has published an article by Asma Gull Hasan on the , titled "What do Macs and Islam have in common?" Hasan writes, "Macs are seen as toys, not serious computers for serious people. [...] The choice to use a Mac or to be Muslim in today's world is not easily understood. In a world where the vast majority of computers are PC, where Islam is perceived as the enemy, why would someone choose to be a Mac user or a Muslim? [...] As every Mac user knows, suggesting a Mac product to a PC-using friend may end the friendship. I'd feel more comfortable encouraging a Christian friend to learn more about Islam [...] it's always open season on Macs."

by MacNN Staff

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LordJohnWhorfin
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Joined: Aug 2002

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05/25, 12:44am | report spam | close Reply |
Wow.

Of all the idiotic pieces of pointless journalism I've read I think this one takes the cake.

Getoverit
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Joined: Nov 2001

0

05/25, 12:49am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: wow

i agree i mean this is sad

bstone
Baninated

Joined: Jun 2000

0

05/25, 12:58am | report spam | close Reply |
more like

what do Jews and Macs have in common. Everyone knows Macs are simply more efficent machines. At te same time, Jews are similar in efficency, community, language, nationality, etc.

what the h*** am i saying...

THIS IS A CRAPPY PIECE OF JOURNALISM!

bganey
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2002

0

05/25, 12:59am | report spam | close Reply |
Unbelievable

This is, without question, the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.

They're computers, not a religion. The "fanatical Mac user" is an invented fantasy of the PC world.

Zaren
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

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05/25, 01:17am | report spam | close Reply |
No way I'm going to...

legitimize that article by clicking on the link. I sure as h*** don't perceive Islam to be "the enemy" (but I'll leave my politics at the door on this one). Just based on the snippets in this posting, this sounds like one of the most sensationalist, self-serving, "look at me!" "computer" articles ever published. This guy(?) sounds like he could give Dvorak or Cringley a run for their wack-a-loon money.

SSebeny
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 1999

0

05/25, 01:33am | report spam | close Reply |
Worth an objective read!

When I saw this blerp on MacNN it sounded interesting. I once wrote a paper for school about how being a Mac user is hard, which we all know is true. All the author of this article is really trying to say is that most people have pre-conceived notions about Mac users and people of the Islamic faith. And that as a result there is a difficulty inherient in both. This article is certainly worth an objective read. Hopefully we as a community can gain a little sympathy for another group, rather than just bashing them anonymously on some internet forum.

JeffHarris
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 1999

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05/25, 02:03am | report spam | close Reply |
Drivel

Is tarted to read it, more from disbelief than anything. After a few paragraphs it was clear that this "article" is Pure Idiocy. What an embarrassment for the Mac community.

Ken Masters
Banned

Joined: Mar 2003

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05/25, 02:19am | report spam | close Reply |
just dumb

Muslim are evil, and they will never rest, until all good in this world is no longer.

Macs aren't evil, you don't see your nearest Macintosh running into buildings and blowing them selves up. No you don't do you.

But PC's seem to have that tendacy.

pdot
Senior User

Joined: Aug 2000

0

05/25, 02:23am | report spam | close Reply |
c***

Worst...idea...ever.

Bartman
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 1999

0

05/25, 02:36am | report spam | close Reply |
re: Just Dump

enough with the dump comments,, a lot of Muslims live in this country and love it more than you do...

scotty321
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Joined: Nov 1999

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05/25, 02:39am | report spam | close Reply |
OH. MY. GOD.

THAT IS THE WORST ARTICLE I HAVE EVER READ IN MY ENTIRE LIFE. THAT GUY HAS A DEEP INSECURITY COMPLEX, AND IS ULTRA-PARANOID. HOLY s***, WHAT A FREAK.

dar2
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Joined: May 2004

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05/25, 02:48am | report spam | close Reply |
bs

A better comparison might be "What do Macs and Islam NOT have in common?"

e.g. When's the last time a Mac user killed a few thousand people (or cut the head off of one) in the name of Steve Jobs?

PookJP
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2001

0

05/25, 02:57am | report spam | close Reply |
Well Hold On A Minute...

... Muslims do have a handy dock where they can store their frequently used applications and documents, and they typically sport sleeker industrial design than Christians.

rmb303
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Joined: May 2004

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05/25, 03:19am | report spam | close Reply |
re: just dumb

By the evidence of your statement you are aren't you. Unless your just an annoying troll that is.

Lyra
Forum Regular

Joined: Jul 2000

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05/25, 04:19am | report spam | close Reply |
SUCH BS!!!

What a load of c***!

I mean only Macnn can post sad S*�&! like this on a mac based site!

So all of the sudden we should be compared to the Enemy?

HEY! It was Microsoft's own software Al-Qaida (or what ever they are called) Used to train their so called pilots!!!!

God I hate this site! FU$�! it, I am out of here, this site pisses me off!!! NO GOOD, PC LOVERS!

MACNN YOU SUCK!

YOU CREATED MORE ENEMIES LIKE THIS, DUMB SH&^�S!

bashar
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2000

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05/25, 04:39am | report spam | close Reply |
Wow

Look, I am a muslim and a non believer, while I totally dont agree with the article, I think some raciest comments that shows nothing but ignorance and NO knowledge of the world or cultures are being made here, you can go back to your redneck town and see the world from whatever perspective you've been raised in, but the world is bigger than north america, people in europe will know exactly what I am talking about here...

Awimoway
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Jul 2002

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05/25, 04:48am | report spam | close Reply |
Chill out

I'm not Muslim, but I don't have a problem with the concept behind this article. We're both minorities, we're both misunderstood. It's a valid comparison. Is that so terrible?

I think most of the backlash against the article is attributable to anti-Islamic bigotry (and, no, I'm not a Muslim).

Yep, the hypocrisy is pretty deep in here right now. Better wear your waders.

tontondavid10
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Joined: Mar 2004

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05/25, 05:10am | report spam | close Reply |
BTW...

The author is actually a girl! It says so at the bottom (she wrote her first book on a mac). As for the "it's such bull!" reaction, you sound like a pretty fanatic mac user to me, standing up like that to defend your loved computer. I'd like to see you stand up and defend your faith for a change. Maybe some of the 'christian' mac users out there who are bashhing this, actually quite inoffenssive, article should put as much energy practicing their faith as they do defending their mac? Sorry, I forget, it's not PC to impose your religion on someone, but you can damn well tell them to get a mac alright.

z0ne81

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05/25, 06:07am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Please stop the racism

Let me first say that I am not religious at all and never have been.

Muslims are not evil. That's ridiculous - it's like saying 'people with red hair are evil'. There are evil people out there in ALL religions, but no religion tells people to be evil. Islam is a really nice religion if you actually bothered to look into it, rather than watching the news and saying 'wow, look at all those muslims killing people with bombs! Islam is a stupid religion, it tells you to kill people!' Those people are not muslims, they are murderers and fanatics, using religion as some sort of twisted excuse to justify their crimes.

The sad thing is that the people who post these racist things are probably kids who just see this stuff on TV & misinterpret Bush's 'War on Terror' as a 'War on Muslims'. It's really sad what the media has done to Islam.

m@
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2001

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05/25, 06:24am | report spam | close Reply |
blaa blaa blaa

Let's not read too much into this shall we boys and girls!

Ken Masters
Banned

Joined: Mar 2003

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05/25, 06:43am | report spam | close Reply |
Wat eva u sai

Yeah muslims aren't evil...Wait a minute i take that back!!!

Once i was dating this girl my third year of Uni, and she told me never ask to see her parents. I asked why, and she told me that they are muslims and she is kinda. i said ok, well what's the dilli?

She told me, because I'm not muslim, her father would cut off my head.

"BTW i dump her the very next day"

Chopper3
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Joined: Oct 1999

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05/25, 07:02am | report spam | close Reply |
I take it...

...that Ken Masters is being ironic, I hope so.

digid
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Joined: May 2004

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05/25, 07:26am | report spam | close Reply |
On Drugs

This guy must be on drugs! I agree this is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. I think this guy should be fired. He is wrong on every single thing that he said. Most of my friends are buying Mac's and are loving them. The ones that do not have one want one, but can not afford it. In my opinion macnn should have never published this.

digid

matvon
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Joined: Sep 2000

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05/25, 07:27am | report spam | close Reply |
The stupidest c***..

Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick, I have seen some stupid c*** in the Mac web before but this takes the all-time cake.

Sydney Tsai
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2002

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05/25, 07:28am | report spam | close Reply |
PC are evil too....

You have to paid monkey for your sin ( patches?)
You have roman (windows) and christian church (linux).
There are evil (virus) spreading by the name of roman chruch (windows.)
There are also some missionary (converter) who wants to spread their believe.

Sydney Tsai
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Joined: Feb 2002

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05/25, 07:41am | report spam | close Reply |
Mac compatale products...

Where he got the concept?
Mac compatible mouse (USB) ( I absolutely will laugh at him... Did he ever know what is USB or firewire... )
Mac compatible speakers... keyboard... network cable, network hub..., wireless hub, tablet... are they pc compatible too? The problem of today is.. some cross platform products, the manufacture are too stupid and lazy to make a mac driver. This is where the problem from.
Yes, Mac users may be quite picky on what they are using. But.. look at the 95%, how many really user are really not using the pirated version and patched 49 critical update at once....
We just get some work that will work for us, not we work for them.

chas_m
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2001

0

05/25, 07:47am | report spam | close Reply |
Stretch award

I have to give this one the Stretch Award for most overreaching and tortured analogy this side of Abu Ghraib.

IF you are going to compare Macs to ANY organised religion, it's pretty obvious that the most matching religion is JUDAISM. Roughly about 4% of the population, Jews' influence on our society far surpasses their actual numbers, and they are often thought to be more efficient, community-oriented and wealthier than the average ...

See, it's just silly. For my next trick, I'll explain how the g** community is actually a metaphor for Mac users. Oh *that* oughta get people hitting my site, er I mean thinking analytically ... whatever.

koolkid1976
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Joined: May 2003

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05/25, 07:56am | report spam | close Reply |
Good Article

Mac and Muslim may not be obvious things for comparison, so that's a skill in itself to find areas that are similar. And the areas where she compares them are not that insane.
If you go in reading this article with your pre-conceived notion of Muslims and bombings, this article is not gonna convince you of anything. So you might as well ignore it and this forum all together. It's good to express opinion. But dangerous to express anger and descrimination.

Sydney Tsai
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Joined: Feb 2002

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05/25, 07:57am | report spam | close Reply |
Summary of the story.

A guy started to hate mac when his friend betray him

Dalhectar
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2002

0

05/25, 08:34am | report spam | close Reply |
It's a shame

only 2 people get the point of the whole article. Awimoway and SSebeny get the article. It's about being a minority, it could apply to Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, or any non-Christian faith in America just as equally as it would for Islam. But I guess most people here are too ignorant and stupid to realize that.

Any person who feels Islam is evil should look at what "Christians" are doing in Uganda. The LRA and its murder, rape, tourture, childhood abuse, and looting is making any Muslim act of terrorism look like a NBA playoff game in comparison.

Webb21
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Joined: Aug 2002

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05/25, 09:44am | report spam | close Reply |
Sigh...

This article is probably more aimed at muslims. Being a muslim, it makes a lot more sense to me (especially concerning the extreme prejudicial if not irrelevant comments made here). MacNN links to articles on Macs (as well as some general tech stuff). Just because they also mention Islam, why is that a reason to go off? Macs and cheese. Ok. Macs and rocks. Ok. Macs and airplanes. Ok. Macs and Islam...What?!
And keep in mind, this article was written in San Francisco, which is a mecca of technology (no pun intended), and also has a large muslim population (the Zaytuna Institute being near the area as well).

If you don't see the point of this article, perhaps you are not part of its target audience (and you're not).

Jawbreaker
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Joined: May 2001

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05/25, 09:52am | report spam | close Reply |
Yikes

If there's a problem here it's how the article trivializes the challenge of being a Muslim in post-9/11 America. Just look at the crazy things people have posted here about Muslims cutting off heads, being insane murderers, etc. They're also your coworkers, neighbors, friends, colleagues, teachers, and other plenty of fine roles in the world. To equate the experience of a large group of people facing a serious backlash of fear and hatred in this country, or for that matter, as this article does, to subordinate that experience to something as (ultimately) trivial and silly as computer platform choice is just plain tragic.

gudin
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Joined: May 2000

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05/25, 09:58am | report spam | close Reply |
Good God.

I certainly hope the "Muslims are evil, Mac users don't blow themselevs up" guy is joking. Then at least he'd just have an atrocious sense of humor rather than being a morally reprehensible n***.

Um...yeah. Christians never do bad things (in the name of religion or otherwise) Yeah, that's it. Oklhoma City? The Third Reich? Bosnia? The Crusades? Hundreds and hundreds of other similarly horrific events?

(yeah, for those of you who thought the president's asinine comment about a "crusade on terror" was sensible...in the muslim world, the word "crusade" is not a good thing...much like Jihad is viewed in the western world)

No, I'm not a muslim. Some of us actually have a conscience and the ability to empathize with others, not to mention common sense, and the capacity for reason.

KidRed
Professional Poster

Joined: Mar 2001

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05/25, 10:20am | report spam | close Reply |
wow

I couldn't believe what I was reading. Total waste os time and energy reading that. If macs are like muslims then pcs are like what? Christians?

Monstermind
Junior Member

Joined: May 2000

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05/25, 10:37am | report spam | close Reply |
In other news...

I had my hands cut off by the local mullahs for dancing around wearing my iPod and thinking "impure thoughts."

s0litude
Forum Regular

Joined: Jul 2003

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05/25, 11:00am | report spam | close Reply |
Lame.

How can you compare the two? You also don't see Mac Users going out and strapping bombs to their backs, cutting people's heads off, and chanting "Steve Jobs is Great" while wearing black masks. Bah!

gudin
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2000

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05/25, 11:09am | report spam | close Reply |
re: Lame

Right, we just have idiots like you implying to be a muslim means you strap bombs on your back. As for chanting, when was the last time you went to church? There are a lot of ideas coming from all religions/faith-based groups/etc that appear silly to non-believers.

Seems to me there are obnoxious horrible people who are from all backgrounds. You, for example.

JimWall
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Joined: Aug 1999

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05/25, 11:24am | report spam | close Reply |
what's with all the hate

This is an article about written by an Islamic woman in America pointing out that the stupid prejudices about Muslims are like the stupid prejudices about Macs. Okay, we're not talking great revelations here, but it is valid. The comments here about muslims frighten me more than M$ ever did.

The thing I learned here is just how Osama Bin Lauden gets his people. Just think any one of these nuts could easily become a US suaside bomber, or a Mac susaside bomber. Lets go kill Bill Gates.

These comments are some scary s***.

VadersCape
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05/25, 11:42am | report spam | close Reply |
Scary s***?

Try being a 'suaside' bomber or a 'susaside' bomber (someone who only bombs parades featuring the music of John Philip Sousa).

nightcap965
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2004

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05/25, 12:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
+1 Interesting

This is one of those essays you turn in to professors who give extra points for being "interesting" and "unconventional."

I think I should write something about Episcopalians and Macs. Both have elegant user interfaces, the call to worship is usually a chime, leaders of both wear black shirts with odd collars (clerical or fake turtleneck), members of both believe themselves to be the elect, and both have less than 5% market share.

Now, if only I could convince my neighbor, an Episcopal priest, to switch to Mac and stop calling me every time his Windows box crashes...

PerryP2
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05/25, 12:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Steve is an Arab

Steve Jobs is an Arab-American, as is his sister...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs

Deal
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

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05/25, 12:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
I don't think

That anywhere in my Macintosh manual, that it tells me to kill people who don't use Mac. The Koran on the other hand tells people to do this 109 times.

ZOM 77
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2001

0

05/25, 12:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
haha

muslims are a minority ?
what world are you living in ? ?

some small group of people . . .

and while your right,
im sure not all islamic people are evil . . .

i have never seen so many people from one nation
cause so much trouble in the world . . .

have the arabs ever been prosecuted before ?

over the past thousands of years,

what have they gone through,

were they slaves for many years
like the blacks or jews?

forced to convert ?

maybe im just an a**,
but maybe they (the evil ones)
are just jealous of what they dont have,
well developed land
like usa or israel . . .

if the jews didnt run israel,
the whole place would still be a desert ..

they want a piece of cake from the world,
that they didnt work for . . .

gimme ur f'n cake b4 i kill both of us!

try bein a jew,
theirs a lot more hate for us out there . . .
i dont care what you say . . .

enjoy your mac . . .

- motech

klinux
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

05/25, 12:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Christians

are not so good too... don't believe in God? You are going to h***!

Religion and internet boards simply do not mix, especially at an immature site like MacNN.

Putta
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2002

0

05/25, 12:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
ZOM77

Yes, you are an a**.

SlowX
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2001

0

05/25, 12:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
how's this for a coda:

i love cake.

gudin
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2000

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05/25, 01:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: ZOM77

Yes, you are right. You are an a**.

1. Muslims ARE a minority (both worldwide, and in the US).
2. Christians have caused far more trouble than Muslims through history. (partly because there are more of them, partly because Christianity is a far more intolerant religion by nature. Muslims don't say "Convert or Die." Christians do. Oh yeah, and the ancient hebrews - Joshua - said "Die." to all those living in the "Promised Land" for no other reason than they lived there and were not hebrews. Didn't even give them a chance to convert)
3. Yes, arabs have been "prosecuted." They've also been persecuted, which is more relevant. To a large extent after 9/11. Historically, perhaps you've heard of the crusades? But then the Christian crusaders were such ignorant barbarians that they also slaughtered Christians "in the name of God."
4. Yes they have been slaves. They have also been treated horribly by europeans once europeans became strong enough to do so.
5. Forced to convert. Yes.

Their history is not exactly like western europeans, but they have many valid complaints and it's quite hypocritical for us to treat them as raving madmen who "don't fight fair" when we at the same time applaud the early american colonists for hiding behind trees to shoot at the British. Yes that's a foolish myth also, but for crying out loud, why don't you step back and consider the possibility that they are human beings with their own valid grievances, etc?

Sheesh we are hypocritical in the U.S.

MDLarson
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2004

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05/25, 01:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hi

I am a Christian and a Mac user. The Crusades were wrong. Blowing up the Twin Towers was wrong. Making sweeping generalizations of Muslims or Christians or Mac users or PC users indicates that you are subject to prejudice.

Monstermind
Junior Member

Joined: May 2000

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05/25, 01:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
B.S.

"As every Mac user knows, suggesting a Mac product to a PC-using friend may end the friendship. I'd feel more comfortable encouraging a Christian friend to learn more about Islam."

One is a fun computer. The other is a PC.
One is a fanatical death-cult. The other is Christianity.

SFgate hires ANYONE to write, don't they?

gudin
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2000

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05/25, 01:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: MDLarson

Exactly. The tiny percentage of Muslims who kill innocents in the name of religion does not mean the religion is bad, or that all muslims are bad. Nor does Oklahoma City, or any of the zillions of examples of Christians (or Jews, or whoever else) doing horrid things mean all americans (or whoever else) are all bad. We are all humans. Some humans are bad, some are good.

When things are horrible, some react violently...more than do when things are good. Human nature. Instead of reacting with hate against those who are different because some of them are angry with us, and some tiny subset of them also act with violence against us, why not figure out why they are annoyed, and address it?

Violence and hate vs. Violence and hate begets more violence and hate.

gudin
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05/25, 02:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: monstermindless

you are the sort of person the author was writing about. Mindless bigot.

UmarOMC
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Joined: Aug 2001

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05/25, 02:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
YOU are all a disgrace!

Of all the commentary on this article I read VERY few that were at all objective. At the top of the bell curve was commentary that SEETHED with a few, "well-chosen" words of prejudice and misunderstanding. You are reacting like the same blithering idiots whom say "Macs suck!"- instant vilification and defense with as few hateful of words as possible! Those whom reacted this way- and there are, like PC users, a scary amount- mirror the australopithecus-like reaction I'd expect from PC users... if read objectively you'd see that this is a cute article written by someone who defends choice! The writers CHOICE to adhere to Islam and the writer's CHOICE to use a Mac for years as well as the writer's CHOICE not to enforce either on anyone else because that would negate the writer's argument.

Now I'm sure many of you will come back to this thread to react to those who DON'T think that "this is the worst thing EVER" or "What the heck! This hurts my brain I'm so stupid! Aaaargh!" so you can follow up with possibly more compitent idiocy after looking up what "australopithecus" means... I cannot BELIEVE even half of you are Mac users! You reacted like those simians in the beginning of Stanley Kubrik's "2001: A Space Odyssey" after seeing the monolith...

Fire away...

birdman
Forum Regular

Joined: Jan 2000

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05/25, 02:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: YOU are all a disgrac

So you can whip out a word like "australopithecus" when you could've easily settled for "Neanderthal" or "caveman" or "ape" or any other number of insults that would have been clearly understood and just as effective, but can neither grasp the proper use of "whom" nor the spelling of "competency."

But, we are not here to debate grammar and spelling, so getting back on topic: bganey said, They're computers, not a religion. The "fanatical Mac user" is an invented fantasy of the PC world.

Surely you can't be serious. So I suppose all the Mac fanboys decrying those who want a patch to fix the URI hole are just a PC-world invention too? People who would rather have holes in their OS than admit its flaws so they can be fixed. People who would rather lose their entire home folder than face the fact that even the mighty OS X might have its share of problems. How can we fix them if we keep making excuses?

Nope; no fanaticism there.

Dale Sorel
Mac Elite

Joined: Aug 2002

0

05/25, 03:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
LOL...

So you can whip out a word like "australopithecus" when you could've easily settled for "Neanderthal" or "caveman" or "ape" or any other number of insults that would have been clearly understood and just as effective, but can neither grasp the proper use of "whom" nor the spelling of "competency."

What an idiot :-)

ultmast
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2004

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05/25, 03:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Enough with the hate.

Regardless of your social and political biases, and ignoring your (quite a few of you) unreasoned and unresearched opinions, the author was only making a simple comparison/analogy.

Of course there are lots of ways you can suggest that the comparison is invalid, especially if you can't check your rather embarassing biases. The point is that there is prejudice, correct or not.

Fine, you don't feel you should be prejudiced against as a mac user because you didn't do anything. That's all perfectly understandable. But what if a few hundred mac users rose up, called themselves the "Mac Jyhad" or something, and smashed PCs in computer labs, or released PC viruses like Blaster and Sasser, or even something less innocuous?

If all your PC choosing friends suddenly started treating you like a jerk because of some idiot you don't know who happens to have made the same platform choice as you, you'd feel persecuted.

And you know what? You'd be calling them ignorant as well; them _and_ the "Mac Jyhad".

Get some perspective. A lot of people are subject to persecution, in so many different categories/ways/areas. There's a time for understanding, as well as aggression.

ultmast
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Joined: Mar 2004

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05/25, 03:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
And furthermore ...

Stop hassling MacNN for posting a link to this article.

It is an article about the Mac, and it is the job of the news organization (MacNN in this case), to present us with news that relates to us (as Macusers in this case), in an unbiased fashion.

I applaud them for their political, religious, and national neutrality in presenting us with relevant articles about our platform.

You may not agree with content in articles linked to, and it's not MacNN's responsibility that you do.

If some of you have a problem with the content in this article, you should be writing the SF Gate.

It's time to grow up and stop thinking about how the world relates to _you_ alone. Maybe some of you are just too young to understand the value of a free, unbiased source of information. It certainly seems like many of you are too young (perhaps just emotionally) to understand that not everything is for you, to you, or about you.

The sooner you learn these things, the happier you (and we all) will be.

Trygve
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2000

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05/25, 03:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ignorance and prejudice

It is sad to read most of the comments here. The author is simply trying to convey a similarity between being Muslim in America (no easy thing these days) and being a Mac owner in a world dominated by PCs. An odd comparison for sure, but why are so few people able to view it objectively? I guess I expected the general crowd here to be more educated and worldly. With comments like these it is no wonder there are so many problems in the world.

Tongo
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05/25, 04:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
I get it!

Hay UmarOMC I think I get it. Australopithecus vs australopithicine, right?

Hay birdman, the reason caveman or neanderthal wasn't used is because australopithecus was over a million years ago, caveman (typical name for neanderthal) was only 30 thousand years ago. TOTALLY different creature.

Tongo
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05/25, 04:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
ooops...

wait...was it 30 thousand years BC for the cromagnon and 500 thousand years for the neanderthal? I think so. Been a long time out of anthropology studies....

macenzo
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05/25, 04:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
switch

it is enough i switch

UmarOMC
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05/25, 05:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
grammar...

I knew the first responses to my post would involve grammar. What well thought comebacks.

Thank you, specifically our resident "Minister of Intelligence"- birdman, for taking the time to look up some marginal words whose spelling was not the goal of the post. I applaud your attempts to wrest control of the steering wheel of that bandwagon of prejudiced meatheads...

I guess I should have pre-empted (was that dash used in the right place?) this sort of response but I felt, for some reason, that subsequent responders would exhibit a tad more time with a more constructive response.

Tongo- thanks for the help in pointing out the timeline disparity. I'd definitely agree that the separation was some millions of years but I wasn't there and contemporary scientific findings never seem to give in to novelty. ;)

Oh, and as far as "Mac fanatics"... it happens. People can get "fanatical" (and keep in mind that the term is relative) about almost anything- what do you call "MacAddict" magazine? I'm SURE most of us have seen the PC-trouncing videos on those CDs from over the years... not to mention their content in general... it happens in faith, too.

Have a good one, whomever. For those wanting to trounce this post, too... have fun!

birdman
Forum Regular

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05/25, 06:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: grammar...

Just as you predicted my response, I predicted your response here. It might be interesting to know that I do NOT side with the idiotic bigots who have been bashing Islam here, but your hoity-toity, watch-me-whip-out-my-50-cent-word post didn't help matters much for our side. It's great that you assume that people who don't know what "australopithecus" means can't possibly be intelligent enough to understand Islam and therefore must be racists.

In fact, I wouldn't have minded so much that you used a word that required me to look it up at dictionary.com (because Merriam-Webster's website requires paid registration for a word of that obscurity) -- it was your self-praising little "so you can follow up with possibly more compitent idiocy after looking up what 'australopithecus' means" that got my goat.

About the fanatics part, that wasn't directed at you; that was for bganey, who claimed that "the 'fanatical Mac user' is an invented fantasy of the PC world." I maintain that the "PC world" didn't "invent" it, as it's quite clear from the MacNN comment forums that the Mac community is crawling with them. I don't really mind some computer patriotism now and then, until it comes to the point of people ignoring security flaws in operating systems because they're in denial that the almighty Apple could make a mistake now and then.

fiesta cat
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Joined: Nov 2003

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05/25, 08:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
My head, it hurts.

My brain, I feel it is shrinking just from seeing the first paragraph.

This is why people make fun of Mac users.

What kind of idiot compares a computer product from a 25 year old company to a 1000+ year old religion.

Deal
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

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05/25, 09:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Actually

As a Mac user, I do not like being compared to a group of people who follow a book that tells them to kill me or anybody else who does not believe what the book says.

The Koran tells followers to kill others 109 times. Don't believe me? Look into it yourself.

It also says it is OK for a muslim to go into an unoccupied house and take whatever they want.

It also says that the sun gets tired and settles down into a muddy pit at night. (as an amature astronomer I also resent that little piece)

I do not bash people or beliefs. But I draw the line when such large followings promote destructive behavior or outright lies. Before you knock me, please pick up a book like "Secrets of Islam" and find out the truth.

Keep in mind, People that killed in the name of God were not following the bible and Jesus did not kill anybody �ever! The people that kill in the name of Allah are folling the Koran and his prophet Mohammed who beheaded many people.

Module7
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05/25, 10:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
What??

" to kill others 109 times", "to go into an unoccupied house and take whatever they want" , "sun gets tired and settles down into a muddy pit at night"

You must be out of your mind. I've never heared of anything like that. You must be making this up. Or that you're so ignorant

Provide the verse number next time..

UmarOMC
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Joined: Aug 2001

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05/26, 01:19am | report spam | close Reply |
alright birdman, et al...

I apologize for "getting your goat" with that part of my post.

I, and many Muslims, have been under the microscope since well before Sept. 11 and all the wars in lands where the majority of natives are Muslim and I am one of those who feel that its hypocritical of Americans to feel its "okay" and their "American duty" to openly, hatefully, prejudicely and� without a HINT of American honor� vilify and take verbal and physical stabs at Muslims like that numbskull "Deal" who is trying to push a book that portrays Islam in a slanderous light by taking bits and parts of it's texts and meanings thereof and twisting it to mean something that's WRONG and EVIL!

I try my hardest to make peace with EVERYONE in my personal life and, admittedly, there are many who will simply NOT have it. So be it... but it is SO frustrating to be seen in such a dim light by my fellow men and women of whose views I respect because it is their choice. For my part you will NEVER find a Muslim saying about Jesus (peace and blessings upon him!) what many Christians feel free to say about Muhammad (peace and blessings upon him!).

Food for thought: let's say, by some divine miracle that is beyond our comprehension, we saw Mary, mother of Jesus, walking down the street in Somewhere, USA. Do you know what many peoples' silent and private reactions would be (without even speaking to her)? I assure you it'd be something along the lines of; "Those damn Muslims are EVERYWHERE damnit!"

Think about it...

Now, read Deal's recommendation, "Secrets of Islam", if you really want nothing to really do with Islam anyway (and would love to continue misunderstanding and speaking like a misinformed bigot)... if you want to actually UNDERSTAND Islam, feel free to read The Qur'an! No, really, it doesn't bite... but it's your choice...

"Surely, those who believe (in Islam), and those who follow the Jewish faith, the Christians and the Sabeans, whosoever believes in God and the Last Day and acts righteously shall have their reward with their Lord and shall have nothing to fear, nor shall they grieve."
- Qur'an 2:62

tontondavid10
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05/26, 07:11am | report spam | close Reply |
So the Koran tells...

muslims to kill people 109 times, does it? And the bible doesn't say that homosexuals should be stoned to death? Actually, the koran has often been twisted to fit into the ideals of whoever wanted to be popular, much like the bible. The underlying principles of the koran do encourage love and understanding, just like the bible, but there are some points that are taken to extremes. Just like Paul (formerly Saul) in the bible clearly says that no woman should ever be in position of authority over a woman, yet this position is widely recognised as outrageous by christians. It's hot-heads who go around killing people, and it's hot-heads who go around bashing authors for a comparison which, IN THAT PARTICULAR CONTEXT, was not wholly unjustified.

Blanchard
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05/26, 08:33am | report spam | close Reply |
Fear?

Re UmarOMC post:

"Surely, those who believe (in Islam), and those who follow the Jewish faith, the Christians and the Sabeans, whosoever believes in God and the Last Day and acts righteously shall have their reward with their Lord and shall have nothing to fear, nor shall they grieve."
- Qur'an 2:62

I have nothing against muslims whatsoever, but I think that those who fear most are those who believe in some sort of God.

Americans are surely the most fearful occidental nation...

Food for thought.

As for the article, chill people. It's about how one, as a member of a minority, feel that it's membership in a minority is perceived by a majority. But then again, I understand that Americans can't see the point.

gudin
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05/26, 08:51am | report spam | close Reply |
RE: Deal

You have got to be kidding. The Koran tell people to kill others... When was the last time you read the bible? Or the writings of countless numbers of christians who have slaughtered huge numbers of "non-believers" solely because they wouldn't convert? Compare the spread of Christianity by the sword to that of Islam.

Christianity: "Convert or die."
Islam: "Convert or pay us taxes."

This may seem flippant, but it is a fundamental difference during the expansion years of both religions. Christians massacred countless thousands of "Pagans" in countless wars of religious conquest, solely because they would not convert. The Arab conquest by comparison was far more tolerant, and in general, gave those being conquered the obligation to pay taxes and tribute, unless they converted. If they did not convert, they were not killed.

Read a little history.

Oh yeah, and sorry to bring it up again, but the old testament passage about Joshua and the conquest of the promised land applauded the slaughter of all those who stood in his way, and actually admonished the leadership for allowing the two people who helped them survive. Why? Because they lived there and weren't Isrealites.

Read a little religion.

Yes, it's silly to compare a computer choice to a religious one, but the more hatred that is spewed out against muslims in this forum serves to prove his point about intolerance more.

tontondavid10
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05/26, 12:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
and finally...

the comparison isn't between islam and apple computers, it's between 'american muslims' and mac users. Both minority groups, both being the object of prejudice because of their choice, and both facing difficulty in integration within society in the context of this particular choice. There is NOTHING either stated or implied in the article about suicide bombers, jihad righteousness or any kind of profession that the two shouldn't for any reason not fit into their context. So yeah, on the whole, I think the article isn't unjustified in the use of its subjects for comparison and the bulk of those people posting abusive comments are morons.

Deal
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

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05/27, 12:28am | report spam | close Reply |
OK people, truth or not..

If you fully understand the Bible, you should be following Jesus example. Did he kill anybody? Did he tell us to kill anybody?

If you fully understand the Koran, you should be following Mohammed. Did Mohammed kill anybody? Did Mohammed tell you to kill anybody?

If you answer those questions honestly you end up with opposite answers which you can try to explain any way you want to. The truth is Jesus. Jesus has an adversary who is opposite him and he goes around like a roaring lion. If you haven't seen the roaring lion, it's probably because he has deceived you and you don't see him for what he is.

PS. Did Jesus do miracles? Did Mohammed do miracles?

UmarOMC
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05/27, 03:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
............

It's nice to be able to expound some words of a book on a whim and not acknowledge others (words/excerpts)...

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you..."

-Matthew 5:43

It's amazing when, how quickly as men of passions and little thought/ponderance, we try to weild God's word as simply a sword...

Deal
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05/27, 06:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
When Jesus returns

When Jesus returns his tongue will be a sword.

UmarOMC
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05/28, 12:18am | report spam | close Reply |
psssst...

Let Jesus worry about what he does when he comes back... plus I'm pretty sure he's going to make Trinitarians feel stupid for the conjecture in thinking he was God. The same people who can CLEARLY see in The Bible that pork is forbidden and love their bacon and pork chops make a prophet a God by conjecture... never made sense to me... one of the many reasons Islam's the fastest growing religions... :) I was once Christian, I realize most Christians that "know" about Islam are really talking out of ignorance... well, just like you! Go ahead, swear to God and tell me you read The Qur'an... I dare you. Yeah, didn't think so. I love how there are so MANY Christians who just KNOW they're going to be saved... like they KNOW God's decision before it is made... blasphemy upon blasphemy! But, again, I'll leave it to God... and may He have mercy on your soul. Peace! :) Oh, and I still think the reason of all this "dialogue"/commentary was an article that was still cute, nonetheless. =)

Anilan
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Joined: Jan 2004

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05/28, 12:49am | report spam | close Reply |
Thanks to everyone...

Who made contructive comments. When I first read this article I did have the "what the h*** is this about?" thought in my head. I refrained myself from making that comment until I read all 8 pages of the comments.

I'll admit, it was a little difficult to grasp the concept of comparing Mac users to the Muslim religion, but I do have an understading of the article now.

I'm glad not everyone jumped at the first chance to comment about 'bombings' and 'killings'.

Power to the Mac users~!

Deal
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

0

05/28, 11:39am | report spam | close Reply |
UmarOMC

You must never have really been a Christian to have misunderstood so badly. Did you read any of the new testament?

Jesus changed many rules of the old testament when he returned. Don't you know it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, it is what comes out. What goes in passes through, what comes out is from the heart.

I also previously did not believe in the trinitarian idea and I still believe it is misconstrued by churches (not the Bible). But, Jesus is Gods Son and nobody will question that. He came from Jehovah, the Father. The problem is King Constantine who ruled the 4th century AD kind of messed things up when he combined Mithra (pagan sun worshipers) with Christianity and also Estre (pagan goddess of fertility) and hence we ended up with Christmas and Easter instead of celebrating the Passover as it should have been.

If you are a true Christian, it is very easy to see through all of that. It is much easier to see that muslims are not treated bad here and I do not say anything bad about any individual. I do know that Christians are treated bad in all muslim countries. A missionary I met that teaches good news in Turkey said that one of her newer converts was beaten into a coma for passing out literature. This by the way was not against the law there. You are not supposed to hand out Christian literature there. How does that compare to Michigan where a mosk is blurting out prayers on a loud speaker in an urban neighborhood? I know my savior can here me if I speak quietly in my head. Why does this mosk need a loud speaker?

Why can't my son pray in school here, yet there are public schools in California allowing muslim children to go to a special room to pray during the regular school day.

Why do they recommend against non-Muslims from being in public on Fridays in Iran? Because in Iran they teach from the Koran (all of it, not just the good parts). It is much more likely a non-muslim will get attacked on a Friday (Muslims day of worship). Why does the Christian church have to be underground there? In Turkey, why can't Christian churches get permits to teach in permanent buildings?

Does the Koran really make sense to you? Have you really read it?

Why did Mohammed tell the story of Moses and the Pharoe six times? Why did he also include a Jewish fairy tail about a mountain being thrown down onto disbelievers? This is a fairy tail, but he didn't know that because he couldn't read or write. He heard Jewish elders tell of it when he was young and thought it was in the Old Testament. However, he claims Gabriel told him these things.

Personally, I see no contradictions in the way the Bible is laid out. The Koran has obvious problems all over the place. I know that my belief in the only savior who paid our debt with his own sacrifice. We can all be saved but not many will choose that. You believe that your end has bee

UmarOMC
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05/28, 01:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Anilan...

Now yours was the most constructive, objective post I've come across! Kudos! I like chocolate chip Kudos... do they still make those things? Anyways, thanks.

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Column: "What do Macs and Islam have in common?"

updated 12:20 am EDT, Tue May 25, 2004

Column compares Macs/Islam

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