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WP: Sony fumbles online music

updated 07:50 am EDT, Mon May 10, 2004

Sony fumbles online music

Sunday's Washington Post features a online music store with a comparison against iTunes. Calling the service "an embarrassment to the company that gave the world the Walkman," the review blasts Sony for introducing another proprietary, locked-in format to the market, the clumsy interface of its Sonic Stage software, and the sparse extras the service provides to users. "Apple's combination of song and store isn't ideal -- as I've complained before, Apple needs to make song files downloaded from its store playable on more than just iPods. But just compare it with Sony's Connect: One of these stores has a future, and one of them does not. And the difference comes down to nothing more complex than each company's willingness to learn from experience and listen to customers."

by MacNN Staff

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Stephen.S.
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2004

0

05/10, 09:19am | report spam | close Reply |
Sony's a has been!

Not being one to disappoint consumers, it seems the poor quality Sony has been noted for in recent years has rolled right into their Connect Music Service! If nothing else..... they're consistent!

Deal
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

0

05/10, 09:31am | report spam | close Reply |
Not Compatible

Why do they keep blasting the ITMS for not being compatible?

Why can't these reviewers figure out how to download and convert a song to MP3 (or whatever). If they can't figure that out, they shouldn't be reviewing.

macbarry
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2002

0

05/10, 09:58am | report spam | close Reply |
Not Compatible - reason?

Yes - I too am amazed that these iTMS reviewers continue to report that the songs are "only playable on an iPod". songs from iTMS are EASILY converted to any format the user wishes.

If you beleive in conspiracy theories (and in a cut throat business like music - who doesn't) it smells very much like a M$ / Sony / Roxio / etc... dis-information campaign to confuse the unsuspecting masses.

ddukes
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2000

0

05/10, 10:02am | report spam | close Reply |
hey goons

You cannot convert iTMS protected music files into any other format. Have you even tried this or are you just speculating????

cmoney
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2000

0

05/10, 10:09am | report spam | close Reply |
re: Not compatible

You know how much of a hassle it is though? You'd have to convert it to CD, then lose all the tag information so when you convert it to whatever format your MP3 player uses, you'd have no idea what song is what.

And no, using some hack or iMovie or Toast or whatever is not a legitimate way to do it as far as the kind of information you can include in a review in a major national publication.

Compare that to: buy song/album, insert iPod, song automatically copies to iPod, hit eject button, remove iPod.

So yeah, it's easy to CONVERT songs to other formats, but iTMS songs themselves, in the format that Apple provides them right out of the download are not compatible with any other player.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

05/10, 10:11am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: hey goons

You can convert the files, but you have to burn them to a CD, then rip them back in an unprotected format. Its 'easy' only in the sense of you don't have to run weird programs or do other wacky stuff. But its time consuming and not exactly promoted by Apple.

Oh, and you other guys should just shut up. iTMS stuff is incompatible with everything buy iPods. Not everyone is going to be burning CDs to MP3 so they can use it on their Archos jukebox. And to say reviewers who can't figure this out shouldn't be reviewing it, that's just c***. This was written for the Washington post, not the cumputer geek times. Most people reading this review for insight aren't looking for work-arounds or 'tips & tricks'.

HowieDI2
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2002

0

05/10, 10:11am | report spam | close Reply |
Doesn't have a clue!

To quote the author of the story... "as I've complained before, Apple needs to make song files downloaded from its store playable on more than just iPods." Apple doesn't NEED to do this at all. iPod sales are surging and Apple's market share in digital music players is the largest of all of the players on the field. Why does Apple NEED to make its music playable on other devices. The answer is that it does not. Steve Jobs said from the start that the purpose of the ITMS is to sell iPods not to help other companies sell digital music players.

cmoney
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2000

0

05/10, 10:18am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Doesn't have a clue!

You're right of course, except most people don't understand Apple's business model. Saying that Apple "needs" to open up iTMS to more music players assumes that the desired goal of the iTMS is to sell more songs. It's there to sell iPods of course, so perhaps Apple can find a way to nickel and dime every other music player instead, say tacking on $1 for every 3rd party music player that wants to play in the iTMS game.

No, Apple doesn't have to do this, in fact, they probably want to force consumers into buying the iPod. Except in the long term, this strategy may not be good for Apple. There's something to be said for compatibility. And if they do it at the last minute, the industry will pan it as a last gasp effort to save a sinking ship.

cmoney
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2000

0

05/10, 10:20am | report spam | close Reply |
Let me add

License fees may not be as lucrative as the profit margin from a direct iPod sale, but it may be more sustainable for the long term. As an AAPL shareholder, that's what I'm looking for.

aer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2004

0

05/10, 10:39am | report spam | close Reply |
Rob's Reviews

Rob's reviews (washingtonpost) are very good and partial towards the Mac platform. I think he is stating the obvious here. The iPod/iTMS solution isn't perfect, but it is better than what Sony, Buy Music or Napster is doing. However, there are too many competing standards. For the end user, buying music online is still... Clunky. It is so much easier to download it for free than have to deal with whether or not this compressed, lossy version of a song. You can still buy a CD that is going to be compatible on whatever machine you choose. Consumers shouldn't have to suffer because the Music industry can't get their sh*t together. Until this is friendly and I am not treated as a crook by the RIAA and the music industry with their draconian DRM schemes, I am not buying any more of this jumbled, online music store clutter. Apple needs to do what Microsoft does- Embrace, Extend and Extinguish. Even if the iPod supports protected WMA- Or if the Archos Jukebox plays fairplay AACs, the iPod and the iTMS will STILL WIN. Even 20 years after the invention of the Walkman, consumers identified the Sony Walkman as the quality machine to listen to cassette tapes on. It will be the same way with the iPod. These competitors are just muddying up the water and confusing consumers as it now stands. Apple- open the iPod and the fairplay DRM scheme now. Make it open source or license it. Give it away. You'll still sell millions of iPods!!!!

mbryda
Senior User

Joined: Mar 2002

0

05/10, 10:53am | report spam | close Reply |
Huh?

How is buying music online clunky?

I fire up my jukebox application (iTunes, both Mac and PC). I click store, I find my song, dit download, and bam, it's here. Click Play it plays. Drag it to a playlist and burn it to CD.

How is that clunky? The music works as it is supposed to, I can put it on the format of my choice (CD - for the car), and don't have to worry about it expiring...

jfromnillicus
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2004

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05/10, 11:40am | report spam | close Reply |
email

i may be jumping all over a nice guy here just for trying to say something nice about our favorite computer company... but, i had some free time, and once i got rolling, i just couldn't stop. here's a copy of an email i just sent to mr. pegoraro:

From: Mxxxxxx Rxxxxxx
To:
Date: Mon May 10, 2004 10:31:14 AM CDT
Subject: iTunes Music Store

Dear Mr. Pegoraro:

I just thought I'd add to the storm of emails you may be receiving from my fellow Apple users regarding a recent story in which you reviewed Sony's Connect service and compared it (rather unfavorably) to Apple's iTunes Music Store. Your story was linked to by a Mac news site, so you may get more attention from Mac users, if you haven't already. We probably shouldn't complain, as you ultimately give Apple's service rather high marks. But I can't help but point out what I feel is a pretty major flaw in your reasoning.

You list as your main gripe with the store the fact that songs purchased from the store are not playable in portable devices other than the iPod. While from a consumer's perspective this certainly would be nice, your viewpoint does not take into account the fact that the iTunes Music Store does not exist because Apple wants to make a profit from the sale of songs. Under the prices demanded by the record labels, there is little money to be made from the sale of those songs at a price point of 99 cents per track. It was conceived primarily as a vehicle to drive sales of Apple's iPods. It's not exactly a loss leader, because it doesn't LOSE money; it actually made a small profit in its first year. But it's not the primary moneymaker, either.

So allowing songs to be played on other devices makes little business sense for Apple; indeed, it could be very bad for iPod sales. Without the tie-in to iPod sales, there would be little reason to run the iTunes Music Store, as the profit would not be substantial enough to justify the expenditure and difficulty. I don't think it's fair to ask the company to destroy its business model and potentially bring down the entire music operation by opening up the format, no matter how much more convenient it would be for some individuals or how good it might be for manufacturers of other devices. If songs were playable on other devices, there would be no music store to gripe about in the first place. If some sort of licensing system could be worked out under which manufacturers of other music players payed a fee to Apple for each device manufactured in order to allow those devices to play iTMS tracks, it might make sense. It wouldn't be as lucrative as selling iPods but it might ensure future profits and sustainability of the operations. But until then, people need to understand why the iTMS exists and why it is structured the way it is, and they need to realize that there's little point in making requests that don't make a bit of sense

eswinson
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2002

0

05/10, 11:42am | report spam | close Reply |
Here is what's funny

When apps come out for windows only the world doesn't complain about because windows has the majority marketshare. But when ITMS only supports iPods (which has a majority of the MP3 player marketshare) the world complains.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

05/10, 01:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
Don't get it

You people don't get it. He's reviewing music stores. He's not reviewing portable consumer playback devices, nor critiquing company policy or business concepts. For the average person, they might not realize buying something on-line at any store means its restricted where it can play. And not everyone wants to spend $250+ on an iPod just so they can take their downloaded music someplace, esp. when you can get small cheap players for $50.

All you whiners who complain about car anologies when talking about marketshare and computers should take heed. Apple is again tying themselves into its own little corner. They may be on top now, but they will not stay there if you have more, cheaper options elsewhere. And once the music store starts losing business because people don't want to be tied to one vendor for music and player, then the iPod starts losing business, which cycles the whole thing into a big loss leader for apple, and all pulling a John Kerry and going "They should've opened up the store to other players" and c*** like that.

jacphrost
Registered User

Joined: Apr 2004

0

05/10, 01:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
YOU don't get it

Right now, Apple is the Microsoft of the industry. If it is that obvious to everyone about the battle for formatting, don't you think they have something lined up for that? iTunes can now convert WMA files. Don't you think that there was a payment for licensing to M$ for that little feature? I predict that once the iPod sales begin to level off, that Apple will enable iPods to play WMA files and license FairPlay to pay for the WMA licensing from M$ to other floundering online music companies. Apple will not do any of this until they see a significant change in their numbers vs. competitors. I'd say a 10% decrease in sales. Still lucrative for other music store to jump on the iTunes/iPod bandwagon and still early enough for Apple to take a hit on price/expenses, but kill everyone with marketshare (like it is doing now!)

Person Man
Professional Poster

Joined: Jun 2001

0

05/10, 01:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: YOU don't get it

"iTunes can now convert WMA files. Don't you think that there was a payment for licensing to M$ for that little feature?"

Nope. No licensing payment. iTunes can only convert UNPROTECTED WMA files on WINDOWS ONLY. This is because they are using Microsoft's API within Windows to do so. Application developers don't need to license WMA for that.

jacphrost
Registered User

Joined: Apr 2004

0

05/10, 02:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Won't change game plan

Whether they licensed WMA or not, this is still indicative that Apple acknowledges WMA's potential and presence in this market. I believe that they will end up purchasing licensing for the iPod/iTunes to play WMA and sell FairPlay DRM to competitors (WMA using FairPlay???) Something to ponder...

ender
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 1999

0

05/10, 02:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
Overall, good article

Overall, it was a pretty well-balance article. At the risk of sound like a zealot, the one minor irritation was that he dinged the iTMS for not playing on any portable other than the iPod, but doesn't really ding the Sony store for the same limitation. Yes, he states ATRAC won't play on the iPod or other hard drive based players; but he makes no mention of other flash-based players, or non-Sony players in general.

The only other thing missing from the article was that he made no mention of how the Sony software managed non-purchased music. Or does it at all? Do I have to use two different applicaitons, one for purchased and one for non-purchased songs?

aer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2004

0

05/10, 02:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Huh?

Buying Music online is clunky. All these different and confusing rules to limit what I can and cannot do with songs I have purchased. CD's didn't have these rules. I have a PC at work, I bought some stuff that was WMA only because that is the only way (digitally) that artist sells this particular track. I can't use anything else to play it but the one PC with WMP 9.0 that I purchased the song on- or buy some crappy Dell iPod wannabe. So I go home, I buy some music from iTMS. I take it back to work... Oops. We aren't allowed to install any apps other than what is on the image already. Nothing else plays the restricted DRM I have purchased except iTunes. I want that WMA song on my iPod, I have to burn it to CD, reimport it and lose all the tag info. It is Stupid, inelegant and clunky. The point of all of this isn't whether or not there are workarounds (we know there are)- the point is what is CONVENIENT. Read up those MBA texts folks, Convenience is what crushes the competition. Microsoft won the OS war because they did something that was convenient for the drooling, slobbering consumer. IE has 95% browser market share because it was convenient for people to use it- Microsoft put it front and center on the Windows 98 Desktop. The average consumer isn't going to go through all this to play a song purchased online on multiple computers or devices. After trying it once and getting burned, they are going to get online, and use Grokster, Limewire or some other p2p app and download it for free. Or buy the CD.... Apple is in the unique position of being able to use some Microsoft-esque tactics to take total control of the situation- Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. License Fairplay to Archos, Rio and others. Make it work. iPods will still sell like hotcakes and Apple will rule the legal download market! And they can get a percentage from each device sold using their technology.

kw99
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2001

0

05/10, 04:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Doesn't have a clue!

> And if they do it at the last minute, the industry will pan it as a last gasp effort to save a sinking ship.

Before it becomes a "sinking ship," Apple's marketshare has to start going lower. Currently, it is going in the opposite direction. Apple can afford to take some time before making decisions about licensing its technology.

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WP: Sony fumbles online music

updated 07:50 am EDT, Mon May 10, 2004

Sony fumbles online music

Sony's a has been!

Not Compatible

Not Compatible - reason?

hey goons

re: Not compatible

Re: hey goons

Doesn't have a clue!

Re: Doesn't have a clue!

Let me add

Rob's Reviews

Huh?

email

Here is what's funny

Don't get it

YOU don't get it

re: YOU don't get it

Won't change game plan

Overall, good article

Re: Huh?

Re: Doesn't have a clue!

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WP: Sony fumbles online music

updated 07:50 am EDT, Mon May 10, 2004

Sony fumbles online music

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Sony's a has been!

Not Compatible

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hey goons

re: Not compatible

Re: hey goons

Doesn't have a clue!

Re: Doesn't have a clue!

Let me add

Rob's Reviews

Huh?

email

Here is what's funny

Don't get it

YOU don't get it

re: YOU don't get it

Won't change game plan

Overall, good article

Re: Huh?

Re: Doesn't have a clue!

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