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NAB: RealNetworks' Glaser takes aim at Jobs, iTunes

updated 07:10 pm EDT, Tue April 20, 2004

Real takes on Jobs, Apple

at NAB: "Glaser didn't disappoint those looking for controversy, showing a giant mockup of Jobs and referring to iTunes closed system as 'The Soviet Model.' In Jobs' world, 'you can go to any store you want, so long as its iTunes,' said Glaser. 'That"s not going to fly in mainstream markets' and will ultimately cause a 'morass of incompatibility.'" Glaser touted its own Rhapsody service with 450,000 subscribers (up 300 percent in one year) and said that the entire industry (as well as all of video entertainment) would be harmed if Apple didn't work with the industry on open standards.

by MacNN Staff

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osxisfun
Registered User

Joined: Apr 2003

0

04/20, 07:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
what

a D*&%

If see his obese carcass walking down the street....Zap. bang... To the moon alice!

Ganesha
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

04/20, 07:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Um...

How is the industry going to be harmed if the iTunes model is "not going to fly in mainstream markets."?

SteveMeister
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2003

0

04/20, 07:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
FUD

iTMS is the biggest, most successful online music store, by far. It is the only one to have actually made a profit.

iPod is the most successful personal digitam music player on the market, by far. It is a household word -- more people know what an iPod is than they do an "MP3 player". When's the last time you saw a TV commercial for a Creative Nomad Zen jukebox?

There is absolutely no reason for Apple to change matters by licensing FairPlay to other MP3 player manufacturers, or to enable the iPod to play WMA files. Doing the former would dilute the iPod market, doing the latter would harm iTMS.

So unless other music stores and/or other MP3 players start gaining the market penetration and success that iTMS and iPod have, Apple is *SMART* not to change the status quo.

cebritt
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2000

0

04/20, 07:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
You can take the boy...

...out of Microsoft but you can't take the Microsoft out of the boy. If you were Jobs, would you deal with a guy who has been bad mouthing you for years and then threatens you. Way to go Rob. Go partner with Bill and leave us alone.

QualleyIV
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

04/20, 07:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
Here's the thing...

Here's the thing, the ONLY thing that is really going to matter when it comes to music stores and the iPod is the selection that is available on the music store. I mean, who cares if you can buy the same song at the same price from 1 store or 10? It doesn't matter. How many people are really going to be like "I really want an iPod, but I hate using the ITMS and I want to be able to use the Wal-mart music store, so I'm not going to get an iPod". However, if there is some variety with the music available on a store, that could be an issue. However, Apple has proven to be THE MOST SUCCESSFUL at gaining access to music titles and putting them up for sale. If that continues (and there is no reason to think it won't, given their market position) then there is really not much to wory about.

When it comes down to it, I hate to break it to Glaser, but 99% of the music buying public and people who want the iPod aren't that into computers, furthermore, they DON'T KNOW, DON'T WANT TO KNOW, AND COULDN'T CARE LESS about what CODEC audio is encoded in. AAC, WMA, MP3, AIFF, IT DOESN'T make a difference as long as the song is there.

Jobs gets this, Glaser doesn't. End of story.

Bobby
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

0

04/20, 08:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Gimme a break!!!

Someone close to this guy should tell him to GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!!

Dumb a$$...

Nostromo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2001

0

04/20, 08:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Oy

"iTMS is the biggest, most successful online music store, by far. It is the only one to have actually made a profit."

Yeah, and it's ALWAYS going to be NUMBER ONE, right? NOTHING will EVER come along that Joe WalMart will like better than the iTMS and the iPod. Ever. Period.

"iPod is the most successful personal digitam music player on the market, by far. It is a household word -- more people know what an iPod is than they do an "MP3 player". When's the last time you saw a TV commercial for a Creative Nomad Zen jukebox?"

And when is the last time you saw an Apple ad? I saw *3* ads today for Dell's MP3 player, and that's on TOP of the other 9 commercials I saw for their S***** comptuers.

"There is absolutely no reason for Apple to change matters by licensing FairPlay to other MP3 player manufacturers, or to enable the iPod to play WMA files. Doing the former would dilute the iPod market, doing the latter would harm iTMS."

Replace "FairPlay" with "the new Mac graphical user interface operating system" and "MP3" with "Microsoft" (who wanted to license the Mac OS to adapt to other computers), and you have the main reason that Apple has a paltry 2% marketshare (and shrinking).

"So unless other music stores and/or other MP3 players start gaining the market penetration and success that iTMS and iPod have, Apple is *SMART* not to change the status quo.""

Gaining marketshare and overtaking the iPod will take TIME, get it? It won't happen overnight. So just because you don't see another MP3 player catching fire with Joe Sixpack overnight and gaining a ton of media attention does NOT mean that iTMS and the iPod are invulnerable. Get a clue.

Look, I don't have a crystal ball (like you apparently do) -- maybe Apple will rule the roost with iTMS and the iPod will keep its lead in market (and mind) share.

But all these morons saying "APPLE WILL ALWAYS RULE THE MP3 PLAYER WITH THE IPOD AND NOTHING WILL EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER COME ALONG THAT OTHER PEOPLE WILL WANT TO BUY YOU HEAR ME NEVER EVER YAAAAAAAHHHHH!" is just plain stupid.

Please get a clue.

Makosuke
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

04/20, 08:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
Smooth, Glasser

Either Glasser is a total idiot who thinks indimidation and threats work on corporations and corporate egos bigger than your own, or he wishes he was more powerful than he actually is and is willing to run his own business into the ground to satisfy that feeling.

My logic:
1) It's obvious Real is in trouble; if they weren't, they wouldnt've gone crawling to Apple, with the added note that MS would be next. Do you go trying to hop on your competitor's bandwagon if yours is running well? No.

2) The obvious way to get Real out of trouble is to buddy up with somebody bigger; at this point the 800 pound gorilla is Apple, and MS is the only other potential contender, once they get their media stuff in gear.

3) If you seriously want to partner with Apple, and its CEO (known for being egotistical, opinionated, and not liking to be threatened), which is a more intelligent strategy: Politely and very secretly talk and beg, get on good terms, then announce a big agreement (ala the HP iPod), or ask in a way filled with veiled threats to go with the competition, then leak your begging and veiled threats to the media, blowing any secrecy for a guy who LOVES secrecy?

You'd have to either WANT the deal to fall through to do the latter, or to think you were so unbelievably awesome that nobody could turn you down (not, clearly, the case).

5) If your main plan falls through due to a bungled approach, what is the best way to leverage with the backup competitor (MS)? Would it be to leak the fact that you're so desperate that you already went begging to another company first? Yeah, like that's not going to cut your bargaining power in half, especially when it's MICROSOFT you're bargaining with!

So Glasser's basically blown both chances of getting anything resembling a decent deal, and now he's jumping up and down at a trade show calling Steve names. Mature, Glasser. Real mature.

Whether Real has business model or not, and whether they're about to get Netscaped squeezed between Apple and MS or not, Glasser is clearly clueless.

Marshallm
Registered User

Joined: Apr 2004

0

04/20, 08:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
Pot. Kettle. Black.

He'd have a point if Rhapsody was open to Macintoshes.

It isn't. He doesn't.

njfuzzy
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2001

0

04/20, 08:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
What a nut.

What a nut. This stuff is classic.

mbryda
Senior User

Joined: Mar 2002

0

04/20, 08:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Who cares?

Does it matter? I want an iPod. I buy one. I want to download tunes. I must use the iTunes Music store. It has the largest selection, prices are the same (with the exceptioon of Wal-Mart's store), DRM is virtually transparent, and it just works well.

Yeah, I'd want to use another service with more confusing DRM (I can/can't burn this or that), probably less selection, and the same prices.

Please. It's not about choice or any other BS (when they are all the same price it doesn't matter), it's about ease of use. Joe 6-pack wants the ease of use of click, buy, install, done. That's what the iTMS does for them.

As for Apple's marketshare - it is slowly rising as people get fed up with all the Windows BS - viruses, spyware, things not working right, etc. Apple just needs to advertise the HE!! out of the Mac.

Stevey Boy, stop this nonsense of being a niche player - put your ads out there with more frequency than the Dumb Dell Interns and watch you sell every comptuer you can manufacture all the time. Dell can do it with VASTLY INFERIOR hardware on the PC side, there's no reason you can't do it.

jbonta
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2002

0

04/20, 09:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: pot kettle black

I agree that real networks has no right to say that itms should not be closed. But think about what everyone is saying here. People argue that why should apple open to everyone else when they are the #1 in mp3s, etc, but how is that different than what everyone says about microsofts unwillingness to adhere to standards or open their office formats. People get pissed at them for taking a standard like java and modifying it for their OS (the #1 OS), but really just s******* up the standard. Same thing with javascript or css or C, or anything microsoft really. Suddenly apple is ahead of everyone else in popularity for music, and, to me, it seems like they're doing just what microsoft would do. I don't know, I think opening source and setting standards is really good. But maybe I am misunderstanding..

spider610
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2003

0

04/20, 10:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
He forgot...

He forgot how Apple gets in the position they are today.

Way before iTune and the iPod, the Mac platform has various jukebox software and also a few MP3 players that willing to develop and hardware and software for the platform.

Most of them show little interest in it because they keep saying the platform have a small market share.

Well, what they keep missing is the Mac platform have a signficant among of users and they can really make huge bucks from them.

Now Apple create a JukeBox software that is better than what everybody has, and then create a digital player that is better that anything out there, they prove to these developers that they've missed the boat. Why should Apple license the iTMS's digital right-managed system at this point if they can leveage it to dig deeper than any companies out there?

That'll be a time when that happen, but not now. Besides, Realnetwork is the one who has trouble in their growth in every sector of their business.

kw99
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2001

0

04/20, 10:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
iPod/iTMS are mainstream

"That's not going to fly in mainstream markets"

Is Glaser nuts...? Apparently. If iPod and iTunes are not already "mainstream," I'd really like to know his definition. They're "flying" pretty high...

Look... there is no way for Apple to lose marketshare as long as its marketshare is headed in the positive (as in opposite of losing) direction. Apple should make deals, but smart ones like AOL and HP. At some point, Apple's increasing share of the music player and download service markets will level off. Whether it's at 40% or 80%, that's when Apple should make the key decisions that will affect the long-term viability of iPod and iTMS as an more "open" platform.

Nathan Adams
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Jul 2002

0

04/20, 11:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
turnaround?

ok, so first he wants to team up with Apple, and when Apple turn him down, he starts badmouthing the very thing he wanted a part of...

And we're wondering why Real is going down the drain?

rok
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 1999

0

04/20, 11:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
to anyone...

...who feels slighted IN ANY WAY by the itunes music store and its licensing system, here's your solution... read it very carefully... GO TO A MUSIC STORE AND BUY YOUR OWN CD AND RIP IT YOURSELF TO MP3 ALL YOU WANT. i am sick and f'n tired of hearing people complain that they are somehow restricted in using their ipod because they somehow cannot access the itunes music store.

dennis
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

04/20, 11:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: pot kettle black

"People argue that why should apple open to everyone else when they are the #1 in mp3s, etc, but how is that different than what everyone says about microsofts unwillingness to adhere to standards or open their office formats."

Point taken. However, there is a difference. MS Office is used by people who need/want to share documents they make with other people. And some of those "people" are government bodies or employers who, by using the MS "standard," are in effect requiring citizens to purchase MS products.

Songs, OTOH, are encoded with proprietary DRM precisely because the company providing the file (song) does *not* want it to be shared openly. Me buying songs in AAC/Fairplay format doesn't force my friends to buy an iPod, because I'm not supposed to share the file with them anyway. (There are ways to do it, of course, but that's beside the point.) If I want to give someone my own song (to which I own copyright), I can give them a fully compatible .mp3.

dreamBweaver
Forum Regular

Joined: Feb 2003

0

04/21, 12:27am | report spam | close Reply |
selection matters

one poster said the selection of music matters most.

i agree, it's definitely very important to iPod owners that they find their favorite bands at iTMS. But Microsoft has said it's MSN music store will be the biggest online store when it launches. Microsoft knows what it's doing and will definitely be able to license boatloads of content---it can do so at a major loss if necessary!

Beware, Apple needs to keep expanding its collection to stay on top. I recommend more electronic music, especially :)

jonbwfc1
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2003

0

04/21, 05:53am | report spam | close Reply |
ITMS, Choice and Future

"i agree, it's definitely very important to iPod owners that they find their favorite bands at iTMS."
My thought is that's not necessarily so, right now. Right now, people will probably already own the CDs of their favourite bands music and therefore will be able to put it on the iPod themselves, so won't buy it from the iTMS. I think what the iTMS needs to do is have a good 'turnover' of new music coming in. Music that people don't buy the CD of on day one, but might download the odd track from ITMS as a taster. I certainly wouldn't spend an extra $10 or whatever buying DRM'ed versions of songs I already own on CD.

"Microsoft has said it's MSN music store will be the biggest online store when it launches."
Well if they've said it then it must be true :). Like they said security was now their highest priority...

"Microsoft knows what it's doing"
That's quite a presumption to make, in fact. In general in the past when MS have gone into a new market - media centres, pda's, consoles etc - their first effort is not any great competition to the market leaders. However you're right in way, because what they can do is absorb any losses the early versions of their product make and eventually evolve it into something that is competitive. God knows how long that will take in this case though.

"Beware, Apple needs to keep expanding its collection to stay on top."
Agreed.

" I recommend more electronic music, especially :)"
Agreed!

ipod21
Baninated

Joined: Apr 2004

0

04/21, 09:03am | report spam | close Reply |
ha

and people wondered why Apple didn't want to do business with this guy?

APPLE WANTS TO DO BUSINESS, JUST NOT WITH YOU!!!

Makes me wonder if this guy was beaten as a child or something, geez.

nat
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2002

0

04/21, 09:09am | report spam | close Reply |
I agree

Microsoft will copy every single good idea out there and by default their new music store will appear in Windows. They will then take a loss for years and years and years and years until they finally win. This is what they do. They know that a year or two or three from now most people that buy a PC won't know c*** and just use whatever they feed them. It has worked for MSN, Hotmail, Media Player, you name it. This is the company where the owner (Gates) repeatedly stated in '95 that the web was a fad and MS wouldn't be getting into it. Now, by default, their web sites are the most visisted. You start your new computer, you start IE, you have all Microsoft facing you. It will work with their new search engine against Google (I predict that they will do away with the browser and tie their search into their equivalent of Finder, no need for Google or anything else). They will throw money at it forever til they win. Other companies would go out of business. They'll just keep coming. I think Apple should do everything it can right now to keep them from doing this.

Monstermind
Junior Member

Joined: May 2000

0

04/21, 09:17am | report spam | close Reply |
Jesus...

What a kook. Real's shareholders should ditch this clearly unstable gentleman; the WWE has a slot all ready for him...

devospice
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2000

0

04/21, 10:00am | report spam | close Reply |
I for one

hope Napster crumbles. As an artist who has music on on both ITMS and Rhapsody I can tell you I'm much better off with Apple.

I'm on there via a third party company called The Orchard, who takes 30% of whatever money comes in. After they take their 30% I still get 45 and a half cents for every download from the iTunes music store. Which I think is great. Basically half of what people spend on my music goes right to me.

Guess how much I get for every download on Rhapsody? It's a little different the way they work so the amount varies from download to download. But so far I've averaged between 3 and 4 cents per song.

And in 2 months on iTunes I've had as many downloads as I have had in a year on Rapsody/Napster/whatever they called themselved before.

Yaay. I'm going to be rich!

It's not even worth it for me to try to get my stuff off of Rhapsody.

->Later.....Spice
Sudden Death

(Search for Sudden Death in iTunes and my album Fatal Accident Zone will come right up.)

macbarry
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2002

0

04/21, 10:04am | report spam | close Reply |
it's good to be king

As a longtime Apple user it's really great to see the competition groveling and throwing mud because they have been defeated in the marketplace. How cool it is that my favorite company is on top again after all these years:-)

There was a time when I was really worried Apple would go away and I would be forced into using another OS. Thanks Glaser for the encouraging words!

SteveMeister
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2003

0

04/21, 10:22am | report spam | close Reply |
Nostromo

You miss the point. I'm talking about the current situation. Currently, everything I said is absolutely true. And there aren't any trends indicating that it's going to change in the next few months.

Once it does change, I'm sure Apple will adjust their policies. But for now, it doesn't make any sense for them to do so.

benhur
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2001

0

04/21, 11:25am | report spam | close Reply |
crazy, but he has a point

Say what you want about this Glaser fellow, he does have a point. He may even be right. Who cares if he's in trouble and came crawling to Apple. I'd rather see Apple partner with him then MS.

How long can Apple keep this up? The posts from people here not already in Job's RDF (reality distortion field) have already said it. MS will take someone else's idea and lose money for years just to gain market share in the end.

We have yet to see MS product, Sony just unveiled theirs and it suffors from the same kind of closed system as Apple's. Yes, Apple has faced numerous wanna be services and is still on top. But they have yet to face the heavy hitters.

Without an updated iPod, new iTunes (I'm sure we can all think of new features it should include ex: liner notes, music videos, all the multimedia stuf that comes with the cd's, etc.

Not to mention, opening up the system. Jobs said it himself, Apple doesn't make money on iTunes, only on selling iPods. Steve's arrogance is going to be Apple's undoing in yet an other market.

medmuse
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2002

0

04/21, 12:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
OK

"Say what you want about this Glaser fellow, he does have a point. He may even be right. Who cares if he's in trouble and came crawling to Apple. I'd rather see Apple partner with him then MS.

How long can Apple keep this up? The posts from people here not already in Job's RDF (reality distortion field) have already said it. MS will take someone else's idea and lose money for years just to gain market share in the end."

No, he's a complete and utter fool and he will go to MS and they will dismantle his company. Then we will all be better off with only WM and QT. Do any of you prodeal posters remember the deal Glaser offered before and how he changed the terms at the last minute or notice that they are currently offering a plugin to export Mac video to RealPlayer? They are trying hard to regain their market share and it is not working. Would anyone buy a used car from an a** like Glaser? Anyone?

" Guess how much I get for every download on Rhapsody? It's a little different the way they work so the amount varies from download to download. But so far I've averaged between 3 and 4 cents per song.
And in 2 months on iTunes I've had as many downloads as I have had in a year on Rapsody/Napster/whatever they called themselved before.
...It's not even worth it for me to try to get my stuff off of Rhapsody."

Me too.

SteveMeister
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2003

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04/21, 12:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
I disagree

As the current situation stands, there is absolutely no reason to change things.

But it would be trivially easy to enable the iPod to play WMA files. And it would be similarly easy to enable other MP3 players to play FairPlay DRM'd AAC files. It's just a matter of setting up licensing. It could be done in a few months.

Right now, it is in Apple's best interest to keep things are the way they are. If that situation changes, so will Apple.

PookJP
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2001

0

04/21, 12:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hubris

I fear Apple's hubris might get the best of them.

Quoth Homer Simpson:

"I'm never going to get my comeuppance! Never!"

ipod21
Baninated

Joined: Apr 2004

0

04/21, 03:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
timing

If Glazer wants to do business, he has a funny way of showing it. The "mainstream" could give a rat's a** about standards... he's way off.

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NAB: RealNetworks' Glaser takes aim at Jobs, iTunes

updated 07:10 pm EDT, Tue April 20, 2004

Real takes on Jobs, Apple

Related Articles

Recent Articles

what

Um...

FUD

You can take the boy...

Here's the thing...

Gimme a break!!!

Oy

Smooth, Glasser

Pot. Kettle. Black.

What a nut.

Who cares?

re: pot kettle black

He forgot...

iPod/iTMS are mainstream

turnaround?

to anyone...

re: pot kettle black

selection matters

ITMS, Choice and Future

ha

I agree

Jesus...

I for one

it's good to be king

Nostromo

crazy, but he has a point

OK

I disagree

Hubris

timing

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