Rob needs Steve a lot more than Steve needs Rob. If Gates and Jobs do nothing, Real will be insignificant in two years. If Rob partners with Microsoft, Real will be insignificant in six months.

This SHOULD be a no-brainer. There is absolutely no downsaide and nothing but upside for Jubs to jump on this.

Next, start supporting wma in the Pod.

THEN, they can BE the m$ of the digital music world and not just a wannabe.

You guys missied it. REAL wants to sell Apple technology which it doesn’t need.

here....do this now!

I do not wish for this to be another Shakespearean character flaw, which leads a great character to his or her demise. Apple computer has been here before. Although some factors differentiate it today from its earlier year! Steve Jobs himself (it seems) is a more reflective and mature individual who today makes more wise decisions for the future of Apple Computer.
I believe the team in Cupertino is aware of all the factors (which we do not know) that need to be thought of in order to make a wise decision. I am also sure that they are (just as we are) aware of the greater market pressure which comes with the beginning of each new day.
However, I do believe there is more to this story. I believe that the iTunes music store is starting to generate a cash flow, and Apple believes that this could only increase with the HP's contract. And this is where the character flaw may be! I, like many of you do believe that a "team" work between two institutions which value each others help like Apple Computer and Real Networks would drive the final nail in the coffin of another members poor offerings...... but, and there is always a but.... As someone noted earlier, it seems Real wishes to be part of a winning team, and it is not so long ago that things were different and their product is going head to head with QuickTime in many markets as we speak today. So, it is not that Mr. Jobs is "scared" or "hesitating" or not smart enough! The question is this... You build a most different and incredible product, would you be willing to share it with your neighbour wihtout a thought the next day?

Thank you.

Some excerpts...
In an email sent to Jobs last week, and obtained by The New York Times,

How do you think they obtained this? Oh wait, there's more...
"Why is Steve afraid of opening up the iPod?" Glaser asked the Times, after word of the deal leaked out. "Steve is showing a high level of fear that I don't understand."


Gee, you don't think its Glaser who 'leaked' it, do you?

And one more thing:

and suggested that should Apple rebuff the offer, as industry analysts expect, it would likely turn to Microsoft and migrate its music store from the AAC format to WMA.

Gee, where I come from, this sounds a lot more like a threat than a 'suggestion'.

Basically, Real's looking for $$$, and they're hoping Apple will shell out some cash by playing the MS card. Of course, if Apple rejects it, there's no saying MS is going to jump up and down and say "Here's money! Here's money! Take it! We love you Real!". (And if they did, I wouldn't necessarily believe it).

VERY LITTLE QT CONTENT ON THE WEB?! That's not true at all.

In any case I like the suggestion to buy them. Then they could dump that awful name "Real".

Even if Apple didn't buy Real, they could/should make a deal where Real ports their codecs to QuickTime so I don't have to use Real's awful memory-leaking player. Although that makes it sound like I spend time listening to content in their format which is not true; it's been many years since I've downloaded a player of theirs.

One thing to keep in mind, but I'm not sure how relevant it is, is that their CEO used to work for M$ and left them; maybe akin to Gasse leaving Apple. Why buy a company to make a deal, make technology work better, if one of the principals is going to quit and start a company that competes against you? May not happen again, maybe he's found his niche and will be happy.

I dont' have a MBA from Yale, so could someone please explain to me why Apple buying out Real is a bad idea?

All they are really talking about here is Apple licensing the FairPlay DRM. Sometimes it is nice to have ubiquity. Even if the iPod weren't involved in the mix, I still think it would be wise for Apple to license the DRM. Microsoft is already doing so, and Apple needs to partner with others stay apace. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to take a file to any computer out there and have a better than average shot at the file playing without any hiccups? I mean, I personally see no reason to use anything but iTunes for music purchasing, but I do realize for some reason some may be skeptical of anything Apple and thus would be pushed towards another format if Apple doesn't license.

I'd only agree to a deal that included Real integrating with Quicktime. If Real became a Quicktime codec, then people could play Real content within Quicktime player. You'd see little Quicktime badges with Apple's logo instead of or beside Real ones. This helps build Apple mindshare. Then with Real being the only other music store that works with the iPod, there'd be two avenues for selling iPod's.

This would be extra cool if a plugin system could be built into iTunes so that Real could integrate with it (potentially other services, not just music stores, too). Also if Real became a QT codec, you could play Real encoded files in iTunes and other QT based apps.

This could be a very good thing. Apple doesn't have a strong presense in the streaming market. Real neeeds to bring something to the table other than "play with me or I'll go and play with Bill" and their codecs are it. If they aren't interested in that then I say stuff them, they'll be dead within months like several of the other struggling WMA music stores.

What is this, a schoolyard? "Steve's yellow ... I double-dog dare him to open it up! Nyah!"

I think we all the real fear: Real being shut out by a successful product line.

And I do have to own up to a schadenfreude buzz by seeing everyone else being Apple's b*tch for a change.

"What's Job's problem?"

This is Psycho Steve we're talking here. I'd be surprised if Jobs even responds to this guy's email.

Real will then partner with Microsoft, Microsoft will sell their S***** WMA DMA-laden garbage to Joe WalMart, and iTunes will become yet another of those "Mac things" that barely 2% of the computing population uses.

I think this shows how stuck Real is. Apple on one side and Microsoft on the other. Nobody wants their products because they're positioned #3 in the market. If I were Steve, I'd license the DRM to everyone BUT Real because it just prolongs their competition.

I guess I'm seeing a down side which everyone else has missed. The Real name is commonly reviled by both the common consumer and computer savvy users. People have had enough of their annoyware-ridden software promotion. It's not as bad on Macs, but on PCs it's pretty atrocious. In fact, NPR recently discussed dropping Real in favor of WMA, because their listeners were complaining about Real software.

Maybe it wouldn't have as much an effect as I think, but I, for one, wouldn't be happy seeing a highly publicized partnership between Real and Apple.

I agree with the majority. Apple needs to start licensing the DRM to other companies. That is the only way it will be considered 'the standard'. It doesn't take a genius, or a historian to know that if they don't license the DRM, it will eventually lose market share, just as the Mac did.

Licensing the hardware to HP was also a good move, although a little surprising. I would have expected Apple to license the DRM before the hardware, since the hardware is where the money is coming from.

To be honest, it sounds like Glasse is being a whiny b****. It seems obvious that he leaked his own email to win the support of the public, but I think this only shot himself in the foot. If Real was serious then he could have met with Steve Jobs to discuss in private the benefits of cooperation. I think Real wants more out of this deal than just Fairplay.

This is just a PR move to make Apple look like the bad guy, Glasse knows he set Jobs up for a double-edge sword. Think about it.

I think apple should have a partner in order to compete with MS. And apple should forget about the 99 cents per song concept to bait people buying ipod. As we all know that it could go up to 1.25-2.00 per song in the up coming months. People will actually buying cd or go back to P2P for music. Now Apple should go after the subscription model that they have been ignored so far. Licensing AAC/Fairplay to Napster or Real, get market share for AAC and continue to sell ipod, and rivals get their shares for subscription money.

Now Apple should go after the subscription model that they have been ignored so far. Licensing AAC/Fairplay to Napster or Real, get market share for AAC and continue to sell ipod, and rivals get their shares for subscription money.

First, how does the licensing model help them? I spend over $50 a month on iTMS, so they'll make less money from me on a license model (unless it ends up being rent-a-music, which really blows). And how does licensing come from this conversation about Real wanting to partner with Apple? Or is this just your pet project?

Second, who says Napster wants to license AAC?

Apple already has this on lock. They have the hottest player in the game and the hottest store. They are the market leader by a long shot. Apple is waiting for Microsoft to put it's foot in because I believe that is when they will buy WMA and DRM licenseing from Microsoft. The main focus is the iPod. Making the iPod compatible with the majority (AAC) and the fledging juggernaut in the online music biz (WMA) will pretty much guarantee iPod's superiority. Microsoft wins because it collects licensing fees on each iPod sold, unlike other competitors who have to pay for song licensing AND player licensing. Apple will continue with iTMS and let M$ crush it's competitors in the WMA arena. I'm sure Apple expects to lose marketshare in regards to the online music business, but the iPod is the cash cow and they stand to still remain dominant in this market. It's already over and Apple is just waiting for M$ to come in and clean up.

What does the Real music service offer that iTMS does not offer? Unless Real brings some value to the table, why should Apple make a deal?

Sure, Real could (maybe) help Apple sell more iPods. But those same users could use iTMS and therefore still buy iPods. And if they buy directly from Apple, Apple makes higher margins on the iPod sales. Again, I don't see a compelling reason for someone to use the Real music service over iTMS. iTMS may not be a huge profit center for Apple, but I don't think it is losing money either. With suffient sales volume, it might eventually general significant profit.

So Real needs to either offer to pay a high enough licensing fee to Apple to make it worthwhile to Apple OR get creative and come up with something of value that iTMS does not offer. HP offered something of value (a huge chunk of the Wintel desktop) so there was a deal (though not of the same type).

Let's do this. This would help Apple and the iPod sales in the future. Not to mention that it would help the AAC format to battle MS's WMA. Appel please, please accept this. Let's play nicely with others finally.

One would assume that Glaser and Real are hurting for $$$ to be pushing so hard for this deal. If that's true, then it seems to make Glaser's WMA threat an empty one. Migrating like that isn't just a matter of flipping a switch. That would take serious resources, which requires some $$$ that Real apparently doesn't have. Glaser would be better off making a real offer to Jobs rather than empty threats.

beeble is right on. It appears Real is desperate, or they wouldn't be trying so hard to partner with someone. Is the WMA threat credible? If Real is doing as bad it seems they are, then it might not be. Still, I don't like the idea of apple losing another major player to WMA/Microsoft. Even if people hate Real's software, Real has a big name for themselves in this area, and thus I see partnering with them as a Good Thing (so long as it's done right).

By done right, I mean that apple should demand a few things, and see what they can milk out of Real's apparent bad barganing position. (1) Apple should get Real's codec included with Quicktime, so people don't have to use Real's software. (2) Music from Real's music store should interface/be playable in iTunes (again, so people don't have to use Real's software.) What Real gets out of the deal is that apple helps them make their webstore/software to work with the iPod. The advantage to apple out of all this is (A) They get more exposure via Real's association with the iPod and (B) People who hate Real's softare (of which there's quite a lot) have a choice of using apple's instead. Again, apple gets more exposure.

Please Apple, do this. Don't let overconfidence now allow a great opportunity to pass you by. This could only help things for you in the long run.

REAL won't give up its codec---what would it have left? Why bring them into DRM? That won't sell iPODS when REAL makes a deal with RIO or whoever. I remember the deal 2 years ago and how it played out. I think APPL would be providing a great community service by using this opportunity to put REAL out of business---takeover/buyout. Kind of like shooting a rabid dog.

This is brilliant on Apple's part, first of all. The leak came from Apple's side, you can be sure. Glaser isn't stupid - he knows Apple likes to keep things hush-hush and wouldn't sabotage his own deal by going public with it. And the NYT claims this is from "sources close to Apple."

Apple's floating the idea ;-) Someone near the top leaked this to the press, and is probably all over sites like this judging the public/press reaction. It's brilliant. In less than 24 hours Apple will know what its users and the major tech. columnists and analysts think of a partnership with Real. Likely, they probably want to know whether it will make the Company appear smart or weak.

I say, Steve can't lose. However, Real doesn't want to go with Microsoft. If they go with WMA, Real will cease to exist a year from now - Microsoft will offer the same type of thing and it will be huge. If you could get WMA-encoded music straight from the source, why would you go through the rigamarole of downloading Real's offering? BUT, Steve has the opportunity to offer Glaser the survival of his company - this is a very powerful position. Steve could give him FairPlay and the iPod as an iTunes alternative on Windows - which might still be doomed but at least sell a few iPods and provide further competition for MS, but Steve should GET something in exchange - I'm thinking support for Real streaming media in Quicktime. This is another win for both companies - Real doesn't have to deal with Mac development anymore, saving money. Apple's Quicktime Player can add another format to its growing list.

I give this a tentative "go for it." I can't see anything going so terribly wrong that Apple would lose any money from the deal. The worst-case-scenario is that this doesn't save Real. Apple still makes some money from the FairPlay license and sells a couple more iPods. Where Steve will cringe is that he may not have control over the user experience between iPod/RealPlayer. If iPod is not easy to use with Real, will that affect Apple's image? ...

Much to ponder, much to ponder...

"Real won't give up its codec---what would it have left?"

Real isn't giving up it's codec. They're just giving up their right to make the codec only play in their own software. Apple still has to pay to licence the codec for it to play in Quicktime, so I don't see what Real is giving up, other then the exposure they get with their own player.

"Why bring them into DRM? That won't sell iPODS when REAL makes a deal with RIO or whoever."

That's an easy fix. Just make them sign a deal that says they can't do that. They've already said they'd make the iPod the exclusive player for their store- make them put that in writing.

More iPods will get sold if one of the selling features is that you can use music from multiple different online music stores with your iPod. The deal with Real would increase the usefulness of buying an iPod- competing players would no longer have the advantage that they can play music from music stores that the iPod can't play.

"Where Steve will cringe is that he may not have control over the user experience between iPod/RealPlayer."

I say it doesn't matter. Apple is so worried about not having control from top to bottom. But what does it matter if apple has an "accepted way" and a 3rd party duplicates the functionality? Apple doesn't have to support the 3rd party, so why care? Other then the fact that people can then directly compare apple's iTunes with Real's player, because there's no more technological barriers. But IMHO, that can only help apple, by forcing them to innovate better then their competitors.

What I'm getting at is allow Real's music store & software to interface with the iPod, so long as Real's music store interfaces with iTunes. This is a win-win for apple: they get exposure from both music stores, selling more iPods along the way, while still controling the iTunes/iPod link. If the Real software/iPod link doesn't work, then who cares? Users will blame Real, and apple remains happy. Or better yet, users will switch from Real's software to iTunes ;-)

" First, how does the licensing model help them? I spend over $50 a month on iTMS, so they'll make less money from me on a license model (unless it ends up being rent-a-music, which really blows). And how does licensing come from this conversation about Real wanting to partner with Apple? Or is this just your pet project?

Second, who says Napster wants to license AAC?"

I don't know if Napster wants to license AAC or not but working with main rivals is not a bad idea, why must we always want to keep it to ourself and see everyone as an enemy? This is business, after all.

I, myself like you, don't like subscription too. I also spend more than $50 month in ITMS, but you can't ignore the fact that some people do like subscription system. I am not suggesting Apple should open a subscription model business, but licensing AAC to rival's subscription business doesn't hurt. It just keep people using AAC, that's all. What's wrong with that?

Spiffy and z10n have good points. My opposition is that unless QT can handle REAL streams AND they don't back out of an exclusive iPOD deal (how can they even make that pledge? How do they have that control?) the deal doesn't offer enough to merit "saving" Real. I still would like to see them go down and become "If you used to use Real Player you can now use QT for the same content...."

glaser is under the false impression that microsoft gives a monkey's poo about real player or any of its formats.

i hate to break this to you, rob, but gates and company would like nothing more than to erase you from the media map in favor of its own wma format, which is what you are suggesting. if you consider that an efective business model, then take your toys and play over at the redmond household. just be sure you get them to make you dinner while you're there...

This could work, but Real needs to accept Apple's architecture rather than threaten them. Unfortunately, Real is behaving like they are bigger than Apple which is ridiculous.

Apple is primarily interested in selling hardware. If they can gerrymander it such that Apple sells more boxes, it's a no-brainer, and Apple will go for it. OTOH If this can be seen to threaten Apple's hardware market in ANY way, they wont touch it with a bargepole.

Ordinary users would definitely rally round a software player that can do QT and Real. People are p*ssed off about having to install more than one media player as it is. The problem is that Real player reaches about 10% of what QuickTime can do, so I wonder what Real would get out of this beyond licensing their codec, which is scarcely better than Sorenson 3. (n.b. Sorenson have long since laid off all their decent engineers, and so QuickTime does not have any really up-to-date codecs right now).

RealPlayer is more universally loathed than QT player or WiMP, because they get all their money via their media player. Apple and MS have other sources of income, and simply don't need to hard sell so much.

If Real is serious about this, they'd better be prepared to kill their player and focus on codecs, or I can't see Apple biting on this. Real are evidently desperate - they are a one-trick pony, and this might be their last chance. It's quite a big gamble, don't you think?

Apple could s**** Real royally and come out smelling of roses, but I doubt they are really interested. Apple has apparently given up the media player fight. I suppose they're mostly interested in authoring, but they need MPEG4 to succeed, or all is lost.

how else do you explain he AND his "spokespeople" falling over themselves to tell every online news outlet (and newspapers, and, h***, anyone who'll listen) to make apple look lik the bad guy here.

mr. glaser, sorry, but steve's not buying. stop crying to everyone how you're going to be "forced" to go to microsoft and wma. that's exactly what redmond wants you to do. you THINK you'll defeat the beast from the inside... well, ask aol how well that philosophy is working. you're too busy thinking you're fighting the good fight to see you're the one who's being digested. enjoy.