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Council questions Apple's 'world's fastest' claims

updated 05:55 pm EST, Fri March 26, 2004

\'World\'s fastest\' claim

The "Council of Better Business Bureaus" has recommended that Apple regarding its Power Mac G5 desktop. Acting on a "tip" from Dell, the council's National Advertising Division (NAD) "determined that the evidence provided by Apple did not provide a reasonable basis for its broad unqualified claims that its Power Mac G5 is 'the world's fastest, most powerful personal computer' and that it 'edged out the competition on integer.'" In a statement Thursday, NAD also said it took issue with Apple's claim regarding the computer's 64-bit processor. The "advertiser's claim, 'the world's first 64-bit processor for personal computers,' could reasonably be interpreted to apply to workstations, in the context in which it was presented." This claim was unsupported by evidence, according to NAD.

by MacNN Staff

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dwishbone
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: May 2002

0

03/26, 06:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
a tip from dell huh?

hmmm. smells like someone is getting a little worried.

Bobby
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

0

03/26, 06:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Perspective...

There are a couple small issues... The G5 is still the worlds fastest for certain specific tasks... This can be easily proved (and has been several times... Can someone say "PhotoShop"???)... Can any other company claim theirs is the fastest personal computer if Apple can beat it in some tasks???

Dame Scribble
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2004

0

03/26, 06:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Dell+whiniest whiners

*laffs* well, I guess if you can't beat 'em straight up, might as well try to sic some 'authority' on 'em.
Dell is loveably clueless. The got burned on the MP3 player hardware, and the "Dude?" commercials had to be someof the worst I have ever seen.
But since when does the BBB go on a tip from a competing company? That just seems fishy to me, although I know little about BBB laws on such matters.
But, at any rate, it does seem that Dell is WAY overly concerned with Apple. *lol* Forget numbers; Macs are the best machine to help me do my work faster. Specs, schmecs.
-d.

automorrow
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2000

0

03/26, 06:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
PP on the BBB...

Apple should take-them-on and win the court battle. Nobody likes a quitter, any especially squealers like Dell so pony up Apple .. and get a written apology from the BBB .. "Were's Sorry Apple, but you were right..."

Dame Scribble
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2004

0

03/26, 06:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE: PP on the BBB

Three Cheers for Automorrow!!!! Apple should take that advice....Put up or shut up, Dell/BBB!
But say Apple does take them to court or whatever process happens. Apple wins. But wouldn't the mere THOUGHT of Apple lying have a negative effect on the company? That's dirtball tactics, Dell...
.d

dwishbone
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: May 2002

0

03/26, 07:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
my view on this mess

thing is specs are open to interpretation. pcs are faster than macs at some things...and vice versa. prices of equivalent pcs are the same or more than an equivalent G5. i would have to say with the most recent clock speeds the gap is even closer than it was when the G5 came out. i think with the new G5s apple will go ahead of the wintel world again. it is always amusing to me how pc manufactures make it out like the mac market is insignificant. when apple starts gaining ground in the market they get very very worried.

Eriamjh
Addicted to MacNN

Joined: Oct 2001

0

03/26, 07:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bring it ON!

Bring on the 3GHZ G5!

SomeToast
Senior User

Joined: Jan 1999

0

03/26, 07:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
More targets

The NAD needs to get on Microsoft's case next.

I've used numerous Microsoft products and none of them enabled me to fly, as their commercials clearly promised.

porieux
Baninated

Joined: Mar 2001

0

03/26, 07:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
marketing

Unless this scrutiny is applied to ALL claims made in advertising, it has no merit.

Obviously this is not the case.

constantnormal
Registered User

Joined: Oct 2002

0

03/26, 07:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
whatever WILL they do...

... when the 3GHz PPC980 rolls out?

I guess in the interim, Apple will have to content itself by trumpeting the indisputable fact that the world's 3rd-fastest supercomputer was constructed by linking together consumer G5s ...

Jeffois
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2002

0

03/26, 08:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
A bit about NAD

I have a very close friend who works in the NAD. They in fact do react to company complaints. They are funded by American industry, (I'm willing to bet that includes Apple as well) as a self-monitoring group. They give such scrutiny to all claims, it is indeed their very function. I haven't discussed this case with him, and I bet he couldn't discuss particular cases with me, but that's their function. I'm certain that they're quite aware that complaintants might wish to use them, and they're on their guard.

That having been said, they ain't taking away my Macs!!!!

ghost_flash
Professional Poster

Joined: Feb 2003

0

03/26, 08:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Go after M$

I know someone with MSN internet and there is never some butterfly man around when he has a problem, or is dealing with spam.

What the heck? I mean really, you should get everything they promise in the commercials right? Somebody call the BBB.

Wankers.

slider
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 1999

0

03/26, 08:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Err, Who?

Who are these people? They sound very offical, but I have never heard of them. I have heard of the BBB, but not "The Counsel of Better Business Bureaus" That sounds like it's bs made to sound like something offical.

LouZer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

0

03/26, 09:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
Who cares

Why is this a big deal? I don't think I've heard apple advertise their computers in 6 months, and I don't think they've used the 'fastest' claim in that long either.

Hey, can I complain about dell, because their commercials claimed "Dude, you're getting a Dell", and I never got one.

eswinson
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2002

0

03/26, 09:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
They waited 6 months...

Dell waited 6 months until the performance gap was closed a bit before complaining. Next month after apple releases some new faster G5's they will make the claim again and dell will shut up for 6 months.

Dude, thank god you're not getting a dell...

craiger77
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2002

0

03/27, 12:26am | report spam | close Reply |
BBB is worthless

The CBBB is the governing body of the quasi-independent local BBBs. Read this site for how useless the BBB is for consumers and how they extort business into joining:

http://badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff1343.htm

ApeInTheShell
Senior User

Joined: Nov 2002

0

03/27, 02:36am | report spam | close Reply |
Blech

Apple has been criticized for every marketing campaign they make by the pc world. "World's Most Advanced Operating System, World's Fastest Computer, iTunes for Windows, The Digital Hub, iPod"

They complain because no other computer company will stand out and make claims that are purely for marketing. I thought that was what selling computers was all about? Oh wait, I forgot Dell doesn't do that.

Durandalus
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2001

0

03/27, 05:17am | report spam | close Reply |
This means war

From now on I'll send out a "tip" everytime I see an ad with a working, not virus ridden Windows computer.

John Dwight
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 1999

0

03/27, 06:40am | report spam | close Reply |
NAD

Wasn't it Reagan who returned us to the "caveat emptor" days of advertising? Wasn't it Bush who let M$ off the hook? You can't have it both ways/ That takes NADs to hold Apple up to such "high" standards. Where was NAD when we had to send a huge shipment of Dells back for overall shoddiness?

kw99
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2001

0

03/27, 07:11am | report spam | close Reply |
Dell better complain now

... while it still can. With each new generation of IBM 64-bit PPC chip going 20-25% faster than the last, it won't be long before there can be no argument that dual processor Power Macs are the fastest personal computers in the world, no matter which benchmark is used.

paulc
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2000

0

03/27, 09:05am | report spam | close Reply |
Reality

Guys, take any A List game that happens to have been published for the Mac, play them on a top of the line Mac and a top of the line peecee and you'll clearly see that claiming the Mac is the fastest is REALLY stretching the truth.

Frankly, I think claiming easily benchmarkable things is bad move on Apple's part. They should be going for "A Mac is a better computer." To that effect.

ecrelin
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2000

0

03/27, 09:39am | report spam | close Reply |
missed the punchline

one inane point by Dell was apparently that in listening to the ads you might be confused by the comment "worlds first 64 bit processor for personal computers" as it "could reasonably apply to workstations". Huh? If Apple's marketshare is abysmal then how about workstations being used as "personal computers"? I can see why that .0001% (or is that .00001%) might get pissed off! A lot of technology buffs on that NAD and in the BBB! Move into the irrelevancy line please, I was a BBB member, even advertised, after two years of zero response I realized they were clearly just an entry in "Business As It Was Done in the 20th Century", as popular as the "High School Buddies" directories. Account was canned needless to say, they "kept it live" for me for a year for free hoping I'd be back but they are nowhere, nothing, destined for the scrapheap. Later� much�

ccarfletch
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2002

0

03/27, 11:46am | report spam | close Reply |
bbb

The better business bureau does nothing to protect consumers. I have had 2 legitimate complaints against unfair business practices in Georgia. bbb did nothing but say the problem was resolved in both cases. NOTHING was done to correct the problem. bbb is a useless organization and I pay no attention to what they say.

CT_Mac
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2002

0

03/27, 12:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Dell is no angel either.

The NAD also posted a call on Dell. And somehow Cnet and other forgot to mention that little tidbit. Here is report on Dell getting their hands caught in the cookie jar.

"NAD NEWS For Immediate Release Contact: Sheryl Harris 212-705-0120 DELL, INC. & SUN MICROSYSTEMS PARTICIPATE IN NAD PROCESS NAD recommends clear and conspicuous disclosure by Dell in advertising for its Dell PowerEdge 6650 Server New York, NY - March 10, 2004 - The National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc., the advertising industry's self-regulatory forum, determined that, although Dell, Inc. solution comparisons were appropriate, the advertiser should clearly and conspicuously disclose the precise size of the database that was tested on its Dell PowerEdge 6650 Server. NAD also recommended that the advertiser disclose the fact that the cost of the Oracle 9i software and support was not included in the comparison of both price solutions. The truth and accuracy of the advertiser's advertising claims were brought to the attention of the NAD by Sun Microsystems, Inc., manufacturer of competing server products. "

Go to the NAD to see it all. http://www.nadreview.org/start.asp?SessionID=165643

vsurfer
Senior User

Joined: Sep 2000

0

03/27, 02:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Dell ought to look at its

self in the mirror.

Ever try using a Dell online ordering system -- try buying a computer listed as "starting at $339" and even wihtout adding any mods or changes you will find it impossible if not crazy difficult to obtain a system at the bait and switch price.

By the time I jumped thru all the hoops needed to AVOID changing the description in any way, the machine was finally listed as not available, It's time to finger Dell on this.

FireWire
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 1999

0

03/28, 04:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
other ads?

So, if I understand, the ad says "the world's first 64-bit processor for personal computers" and they want it was "recommended that Apple "modify this claim to effectively limit it to personal computers."

I'd better tell the local grocery to change the ad that says "the town's cheapest oranges" to specify it is only talking about oranges, and not oranges and apples and grapefruit, someone might get confused with this complex sentence structure...

ElRay
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2003

0

03/28, 07:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
I'm usually not vindicti

I'm usually not the vindictive type, but, anybody that has a Dell should file a complaint about their deceptive advertising: "award winning service" BAH!!! First, when's the last time they actually won an award? IIRC, they haven't won one since the 90's. Second, award winning service doesn't imply quality. The Dell laptop I use for work has had three keyboards and two motherboards. Most recently, it had a problem with unexpectedly powering off. After just shy of an even dozen calls & emails to support, it turns out that it actually needs to have the motherboard replace yet again. This time it's a lose clip that can't hold the RAM in, but it's out of warranty now and it's not worth the cost to repair.

JRSTRONG
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 1999

0

03/28, 08:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
My G4/550 = 1.667ghz AMD?

I can only open about 7 or 8 windows on IE 6.0 on my WinXP/AMD 1.667ghz PC, and there is still a lengthy lag, while my B&W G4/550 was able to open 20 or more Windows in IE 5.0, and while I did notice a 'lag' with that many windows open, it was still not as long as my FIRST window on IE 6 on my XP PC?

I know how these 'older' G4 chips are more substantive than the newer G5's, but this still lends a lot of credence to the 'world's fastest' being from Apple?

z10n
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2003

0

03/29, 11:53am | report spam | close Reply |
lol

People just don't get it. The whole "world's fastest" thing was just apple putting a balls-out spin on their spiffy new computer. Anybody with any brains knows that there are a zillion things that make up computer speed, and that even if it's right in some respects, it's highly unlikely apple's claim is entirely true. For every benchmark that comes out, another benchmark comes out which disproves the previous one's results. Which computer is really fastest? My answer to that is, does it really matter? PCs are faster with some tasks while macs are faster with others. MHz is only one factor in that equation. Just because Intel's are clocked highest doesn't mean they are fastest, etc. So here's a summary of my take:

A) Apple went a bit overboard, but considering there isn't a truely impartal standard which measures PC performance, there isn't anyone who can definitively disprove apple's claim. I don't see anywhere were apple made a false statement, because it can't be proven as false. Apple could have even been talking about performace speed as you factor in the efficiency of OS X.

B) People need to be less gulable, and BBB needs to stop being a pantywaste. If consumers are fooled, it's because they're dumbasses and are too lazy to check out the facts, not because some company pulled a no-no by making a "false" claim. Obviously you can't have companies going around spouting complete bullshit, but just the same, you can't be cruisifying a company for trying to market their products. Apple's claim was marketing, plain and simple. That fact is obvious, because the commercial goes to no lengths to back up the statement with actual numbers.

C) There is no "accurate information" provided to consumers. Companies are in the business of spouting FUD and spin to make their products look better. So once again, the golden rule is buyer beware. It's the reponsiblity of the buyer to be informed about the details behind their purchase.

Do I think apple should have not posted the claim? Yea, I do. While I respect apple's balls-out approach, the claim was too broad of a statement and is obviously being misinterpreted. Apple could have done other things to market the G5 just as effectively, without making a statement they knew they would have problems defending. Still, it kind of annoys me how much people have problems with what apple did. -I- knew it was marketing, but a lot of idiots obviously didn't get that impression.

Xapplimatic
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2002

0

04/03, 07:54am | report spam | close Reply |
...pulleeeze..

Michael Dell.. what a dork. Get a life. This is the stupedest under-handed way of taking on your competition ever. Whine whine whine.. Dude.. you're getting duped!

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Council questions Apple's 'world's fastest' claims

updated 05:55 pm EST, Fri March 26, 2004

\'World\'s fastest\' claim

Related Articles

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a tip from dell huh?

Perspective...

Dell+whiniest whiners

PP on the BBB...

RE: PP on the BBB

my view on this mess

Bring it ON!

More targets

marketing

whatever WILL they do...

A bit about NAD

Go after M$

Err, Who?

Who cares

They waited 6 months...

BBB is worthless

Blech

This means war

NAD

Dell better complain now

Reality

missed the punchline

bbb

Dell is no angel either.

Dell ought to look at its

other ads?

I'm usually not vindicti

My G4/550 = 1.667ghz AMD?

lol

...pulleeeze..

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