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Tech: email fee to curb spam; hazardous waste...

updated 03:35 pm EST, Fri March 5, 2004

Tech: email fee

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by MacNN Staff

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03/05, 03:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
HA

The goverment doesn't provide email, so who are we buying stamps from?

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03/05, 03:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
Stamps?

..who are we buying stamps from?

Well, probably Microsoft.

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03/05, 03:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
Feemail

So, the billionaire wants email to carry a fee.

Who'da thunk it?

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03/05, 03:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yeah... Right...

The day they do that will be the day I disconnect my DSL service. I'm not paying for email. Period.

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03/05, 03:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
fees are wrong

fees mean a line of revenue that will become depended upon. the us postal service survives on junk mail, otherwise we could stop it. if fees are charged for email, some entity will beginning living off of it, and it will only get worse

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03/05, 04:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
agreed

that is a great idea, charge 32 cents per email or something like that, just like reg. snail mail.

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03/05, 04:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Do what?

"if fees are charged for email, some entity will beginning living off of it, and it will only get worse."

You hit the nail on the head! Bill Gates is on another planet.

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03/05, 04:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
wtf

WTF?!?!

And people ask, "why do you own a mac?" Becuase I couldn't stomach spending my hard earned money on products endorsed by Bill Gates.

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03/05, 04:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Fees on top of fees

The difference with Snail Mail is that I'm not paying a monthly fee for postal access on top of the postage per letter. We all pay an ISP for monthly internet access. Some of us may be paying additional fees for web hosting and domain registration. Now they suggest we pay additional fees for sending out email!? This is ludicrous. What if my machine has been hijacked by a virus or hacker? I assume I'd end up sending out spam and stuck with a huge bill. I'd love that.

A better solution has already been proposed -- make email infrastructure more secure so that the "from" addresses cannot be faked so easily. This way it becomes more difficult for a spammer to hide.

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03/05, 04:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
RIPE

this fee is just RIPE to be proposed by people with 10-15 billion dollars.

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03/05, 04:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
mail/xbox

i kinda liked the thought of people sending micropayments with email vs for email...meaning that if i got mail i'd also get money. i don't like the thought of paying for email when i don't know who is going to collect and why.

xbox....the plan is to leave out the HD for flash memory. it'll be less than a gig no doubt to give enough room for an os, swap/cache space, and storage (Not enough to copy games or too much music...more than a gig will cost way more than the hd would have- h***, 512 is probably more than that). I'll bet that they'll also sell online storage through xbox live.

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03/05, 05:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
I already do pay a fee...

I already do pay a fee... to my Internet Service Provider... to provide me with internet access and e-mail. Like other people mentioned above, charging a fee will only create a new industry. some people will get rich(er), and the public will still be inundated and irritated with junk in their inbox.

I know that the postal service charging for mail hasn't cleared my physical mailbox of junk mail. 95% of my real mail is advertisements.

Also, a lot of the spam I receive is from spoofed e-mail addresses. If charging for e-mail happens, does this mean that the spammers will still get to spam, but stick somebody else with the bill?

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03/05, 05:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
In other words

Billy boy is saying that there no way they(MS) can fix this spam/email virus thing. Lets let the the Government regulate it and tax it.

Not Thanks you RIPE b******!

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03/05, 05:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Mac users, UNIT

Rendezvous and Macintosh together shall eliminate the need for e-mail.

The goddamn fee is just as bad as WindowsXP. What else is new?

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03/05, 05:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
eMail Solution

Previously I mentioned that to stop "Spam" or Fraudulant emails, all one needs to 'filter' is all emails that are sent ( through a registered user account connected to a single email address ) with the SAME REPLY ADDRESS. Your bullshit responses were "Well I want my email to return to a different address." WHICH IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM!!! You idiots are what caused this enormous problem in the first place by creating the ability to forge email address and have fake reply addresses.

THE SOLUTION: A link in the BODY of a email that says: "Please reply to this address:" Which, in most cases, could be in html code, or even better, javascript whereas the script generates the enclosed body of the original email in the body of the reply.

CASE CLOSED.

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03/05, 05:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
What is....

...so hard to understand?

To idiots@internet.org
From: solution@nobrainer.org

Please reply to: itworks@thankyou.com

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03/05, 05:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
Blocked...

Sent from: spammer@microsponge.com

To: all@aol.com

From: bgates@microsoft.com

BLOCKED BY "NOBRAINER Vs. 1.1"

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03/05, 06:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: email solution

Lousy solutions aren't solutions. I don't allow Javascript in email (nor is there ever a reason any email program should). Therefore, that's pointless. And how hard would it be to forge the stupid email headers to get the two addresses to match.

Oh, and I guess we can just have the email software authors remove the "Reply" and "Reply-to all" options, since we're all doing hyperlinks now. Geesh, get a clue.

A real solution would be something as simple as verification of the sender (you know, digitally signed mail, or all mail being sent from a server being signed by the server that verifies the server that sent the mail. Then just take your email program (or even better yet, the SMTP servers) and say "Ignore all un-verified mail". There, done. Spam that starts being spit out can be traced back to the perpertrators. Other mail gets tossed.

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03/05, 06:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Already 'Market based'

I pay for my f-in' DSL, I pay for my f-in' domain name and server.
I pay for my f-in' computer and software.

Now you want me to pay for f-in' email?

please visit my website www.f-in-bite-me.com

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03/05, 06:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
So X-box

hackers will have to buy a HD and hack the BIOS to install it.
Big freakin' whoop.

Or they just won't buy it.

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03/05, 06:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Charging for bad behavior

Does charging or taxing unwanted behavior work to curb the behavior? I do think the idea of my receiving the microcharge per email is far superior but the pschology of it might make customers to a business seek other ways of communicating with the business that the business would rather not have. I think there will be better solutions than this. This adds more complexity than is necessary and if the proceeds were to go to government, this would lead us further into dependence on government to solve our problems. Money is a form of power, me getting it is far better than it going to government so they have more power over all of us leading us to the great totalitarian state.

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03/05, 07:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Only for bulk, probably..

I would assume that the email tax/fee would apply only to those senders that send more than a specified number of emails per minute/hour/day/week/month/year and those senders, like me, who send maybe 5 emails a day would have no taxes levied against them.

I have been hoping that bulk emailers would be taxed some day... let's hope this is the beginning of that.

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03/05, 08:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
a better way

the best way to deal the damn spammers is like this. when an email goes out, charge 10 dollars per email. if the email isnt accepted by the recipient, then you lose your ten bucks. if it is accepted, then that 10 bucks goes to salvation army or the "Get Bush out of office" foundation. that would be the best way

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03/05, 09:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Knee-jerk reaction bad

An email tax would be something like a penny per message, or less; it would not be a significant expense for most people. h***, make it a tenth of a cent per, which would be enough to drive most spammers out of business.

The problem for me is with *legitimate* mass-mail. I run mailing lists for my department at school wherein I somewhat frequently send messages to a few hundred people, and obviously many legitimate lists are much larger. The obvious solution of making exemptions for education etc just means spammers would find ways to exploit loopholes.

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03/05, 09:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
Opt-In.

Want to send me an email? Opt-in. Then I'll decide if I want emails from you. If not, my server should reject it. Thus, I only get the emails from people and businesses that I want to.

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03/05, 09:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
postage doesn't stop jun

...so gee, does Big Bad Bill have a vested interest?
;-)

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03/05, 10:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
Possible alternative

I know this is probably a case of "too little, too late", but there would be no spammers if there was nobody advertising via spam mail. Therefore, why can't we go after all the pharmaceutical companies, sceptic tank vendors, boob-wigglers and willy-dancers and fine them?

The originator of the spam email may be hard to trace, but the desired effect of it is that you go to a website detailed within the email. Surely that site MUST be registered to someone somewhere. Go after them, and pretty soon they'll stop advertising via spam and the others will gradually follow suit.

We're not the ones causing the spam problem, so why should WE have to pay? FWIW, I actually only get about 2 spam emails every three months or so, so this email charging REALLY pisses me off!

Also, (I know this has already been asked but) who would the money go to? Sorry Bush/Gates, but I live in the UK and there's no way you're going to make me pay your government....especially considering it isn't even an American invention! (mind you, I still wouldn't pay even if it were!)

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03/06, 12:47am | report spam | close Reply |
Typical Microsoft

Their solution to everything involves us giving them money.

And they always seem to be trying to sell us on a solution to problem that another of their products created or made worse-- e.g. the swiss-cheese security of Windows has given us an army of spam zombie PCs spewing garbage into our inboxes, and now Microsoft wants us to pay them so we can send legitimate e-mail.

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03/06, 02:39am | report spam | close Reply |
how about a PIN

My idea would be to use a PIN. Basically, it would work something like this. First, we do away with all free email services. Then you require everyone to use a legitimate ISP who requires a credit card. Each ISP would have their own identifier and a system which generates a PIN (however many digits) for each user. The user is then required to enter their PIN anytime they send email. The PIN could also be saved in the app or something like a keychain to provide convenience. When you recieve spam, you could click a button which returns the spam to the ISP who owns the identifier. Using a descrambler, they could descramble the PIN to determine it's originator and charge the users credit card accordingly. This is just an idea and would certainly require some more thought, but I think it has some merit. Afterall. You can't walk up to am ATM and withdraw money without a PIN, so why not put a similar requirement in place to send email with a way to track the email back tot he originator? Just a thought.

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03/06, 07:44am | report spam | close Reply |
Ban Windows From the Net!

Perhaps the final solution is to redesign the entire web mail protocol to something that insures the sender can be identified. True, that would require every mail server and client to undergo a major revision in order to work, but given, say, a 2 year period before it is implemented would be plenty. I for one would pay (a little) for an upgrade to my email client for a version that reveals the true sender.

Oh wait.... this may not work.... there are thousands and thousands of PC zombies out there sending spam on behalf of the spamers, thanks to Microsoft and their lousy operating system code.

Mmmmm..... Hey, what about this: Ban Windows from the net.

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03/06, 12:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ban windows from the net.

lol...
Not bad, i like it.

How about banning longhorn development until there is no crappy in XP first? it would suit for the anti-trust too.

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03/06, 12:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
My ideas

First, I have to agree, putting Java in my email is dumb. Second, you can still send snail mail anon if you want and it costs money--no point there, just an observation. But related is that sending money to a central MS office to handle all the email (you KNOW this is what Bill wants) isn't going to stop spam at all. Making everyone register to send email won't work either. Perhaps a PGP type key with redundant servers is an avenue. The local ISP sends you all the email you vette and hold all the mail you didn't expect. They hold it ALL like a physical filter and you sort through that with a key. Just a vague thought.
Oh, before I forget, can you people talk about ANYTHING without mentioning that you despise the President? You know, like grown-ups?

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03/06, 03:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
OK no JAVA..

That was just an example to show how to reply ( with the contents of the BODY )to a email address OTHER than the sender's. Maybe HTML and FORM will do the same...

YOU MORONS MISSED THE POINT!!!

No wonder this problem has balloned out of control!!!

YOU PEOPLE ARE FOOLS!!!!

NO PGP 'keycode' , ISP ID, IP address, etc.... is needed.

You recieve your mail from your ISP to your "idiot@isp.net" mailbox.
You send your email as "idiot@isp.net" thru your server.

If you want the reply to transfer to another mailbox, or a additional email list ( hopefully you morons use BCC ) then you specify it in the BODY of the email ( maybe there can be an 'automatic' reply email FORM using HTML)

HOW COME YOU DON'T GET IT?

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03/06, 04:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
dude,

I don't "get" the all caps thing. Why don't you settle down and chill for a bit. Think about your idea. Some people don't allow Java in their email. Some people don't allow html in their email.

For the idea to have merit, it has to be something builtin that people don't have to think about, configure, futz with, or whatever. Spam is not a problem that can be changed at the user level. Gates would like to try and do it at the lowest level because that's where he's gonna make the most money; nickle and diming the consumer.

Spam will stop when the ISPs decide to stop letting it through and a solution is developed. It has to be stopped at a higher level than the consumer, so please, get your keyboard fixed and find another way to save the world.

thanks

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03/06, 05:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
RIPE

I will keep posting RIPE f*** s***, untill MAcNN makes its form for members only...

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03/06, 05:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
Email Would Die

If they tried charging for email, everyone would move onto IM. If they tried to collect from IM, something else would pop up in its place. Charging for email is stupid and would be a losing battle.

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03/06, 05:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
sigh

tax the majority who are using the system correctly to curb the minority who are abusing it. BRILLIANT!

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03/06, 06:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
sorry

Oh, I'm soooo sorry that I own my own domain name and use it as my e-mail address, even though it all gets forwarded to my .Mac account. I'm so sorry that I'm "to blame" or "the cause" of spam just because my outgoing e-mail address is @mydomainname.com instead of @mac.com. I'm so sorry that I don't run my own e-mail server with my domain and that's why I do it this way instead.

Oh, and by the way, my method of combatting spam is that when I register at a website, I use the company's name as my email address, e.g. nytimes.com thinks my address is nytimes@[mydomainname].com. If I start getting spam sent to that address, I know that it's the New York Times that sold my name, and I tell Mail to block mail sent to that address. But, as I said, all mail sent to [mydomainname].com ends up in my .Mac mailbox, but all outgoing mail looks like it's coming from [mydomainname].com.

Sorry. a**.

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03/07, 12:09am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: OK No java

YOU MORONS MISSED THE POINT!!!
...
YOU PEOPLE ARE FOOLS!!!!

NO PGP 'keycode' , ISP ID, IP address, etc.... is needed.

You recieve your mail from your ISP to your "idiot@isp.net" mailbox.
You send your email as "idiot@isp.net" thru your server.
...
HOW COME YOU DON'T GET IT?

Why don't you get it, idiot. I can send mail right now saying its from whatever address I want, with any address as the reply address. Which means, as a spammer, I can just mail out my stuff as "From: joe.schmoe@mac.com", and reply to as the same, but that doens't mean it comes even close to this. Only idiots thinks this somehow makes it valid. Right now, most spam comes from garbage addresses that aren't real. They never ask for a reply, they link to a web site. Just because they may not use the same reply and from addresses doesn't mean that they can't. They're just idiots, that's all.

My junk email filter in Powermail are pretty simple. If its from someone in my address book, its valid. If its from me, it better also include my name in the address for me to take it (some mail is sent from yourname@isp.net, but the from is "Kathy Johnson" or some c***). Then I have one rule that says that says "If From or CC is not me, then its junk", and finally "If content contains 'text/html', then its junk".
Add filters for various list servers or other stuff, and that's it.

This catches 99% of my junk mail, with few false positves. I guess I luck out because everyone I knows is either smart enough or two lazy to send me HTML mail.

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03/07, 10:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Read the article

If you read the article it specifically says that there are other ideas for how to get "stamps" besides paying for them, such as requiring a computer to do a specific computation that takes a few seconds for each recipient - something that would barely be noticable to the average user but could take hours of time for an e-mail with thousands of recipients. But then again, much like software product activation, the people who are determined to get around the technology no doubt will while legitimate users are inconvenienced even more.

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03/08, 01:54am | report spam | close Reply |
Hey ripe dude

I think you're f****** g**. So do most people here.

How do you like it?

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03/08, 01:59am | report spam | close Reply |
Hey ripe dude

I think you are f****** g**. So does everyone else here.

How do you like it?

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