All this tells me is that PC users replace their computers far more often than Mac users. Take Government, Education and Corporate/Business PC purchases out of the equation and I'm sure we'd get an entirely different perspective. While it's true that a sale is a sale, this doesn't necessarily mean Apple's installed user base is declining. It only means PC users are spending money replacing/upgrading the garbage they already have.

We have a bunch of XP machines at work. They're slow, unstable as h***, look like s*** and need constant patching.

So I brought in a 1997 vintage Mac from home, and you know what? it's about a million times more useful.

Same here. Our old blue and white G3 (with 9.2 even) has been more stable than my new XP machine. Anytime I want to get serious work done, I don't even consider the new system.

"And for all those mac zealots I suggest you actually go out & spend a day working/browsing on a 2Ghz+ XP machine & compare it to a mac of equivalent (500mhz?) price... You might be pleasantly surprised..."

if you're still looking at 500 mhz macs, perhaps you should be looking a little too. My 1.25 GHz Powerbook runs great, costs about the same as a similarly configured Dell and let's me run a superior os. And no, I'm not saying XP sucks. It's actually pretty stable and for people that want a basic machine is probably fine. Personally, I like a machine that supports open standards and a huge base of free unix software. Most people don't care about digging into things like python, shell scripting etc., but for those of us that do, OS X is a great combination of a commercial OS with great free tools.

Another point, how much does it cost to develop with Visual Studio? I get a great environment free with OS X. When I point that out to developer friends, they often say they don't pay for their software, they just copy it. Nice. Maybe if people had a little better ethics and compared the true cost, a lot more macs would be sold.

I am actually a dual platform user. I use a G4 Cube at work, and at home I have a 500 MHz G3 iBook, and a Dell Dimension 8100 (although I've done various upgrades to it since I got it a few years ago, like upgrading the video to a GeForce 4 Ti4400, upgrading the memory to 512 megs and adding a second 80GB hard drive and adding a 52x CD-R/16x DVD combo drive). I run Windows XP on my Dell, and I use the machine primarily for web browsing, writing and playing games.

I have to say though, that I find XP to be a pain in the a**, with all sorts of weird glitches, and it often gets very sluggish (to the point that it usually needs to be restarted at least every couple of days, especially if I've been downloading a lot of playing games).

I infinitely prefer using my Cube or my iBook, even though in terms of specs they aren't really as good as my PC.

...


...


market share does not equal innovation, taste, nor intelligence.

good bye, PC trolls! don't come back!
(yup it's me again!)

[quote]
It only means PC users are spending money replacing/upgrading the garbage they already have.
[/quote]

no doubt...


...

...

in the world where it's impossible to get a mac. had a thai roomie that never saw one before coming here last year. had a french roomie that lived in a town of 100,000 in france that had several computer stores but no mac's. so anyone buying there was buying a pc. this i think is the norm. people don't buy want they don't know or have never seen or can't get.

I'm forced to use a PC at work every day. It is utter c***. It is a 2.4 GHz P4 with 1GB of RAM but feels slower than my G4 733 w/896MB of RAM at home.

Not only that, but the interface is still awful. Microsoft must have sheer contempt for their customers to produce this unintuitive, inconsistent, non-sensical piece of garbage.

$-4-$ I get more done on a Mac, it is more stable, and I enjoy it more.

...I get a lot more ground covered on my PC, which by the way I've set to 'Classic' mode as I actually find the XP graphics a little tiring for long term use ...

...and $-4-$ my 1.8ghz PC sells for about the same as my 400mhz G4...

...and I use it every day as well as my mac - neither has crashed in a very long time - sometimes I can drill down 5 or 6 levels on the PC before Safari/Panther has been trying even one - the Mac OS is beautiful but slow - things just seem to be starting to work relatively seemlessly now - peripherals I bought when X came out are finally 'up to speed' - and yes I've tried a 1ghz G4 Ti without a big jump in speed - a dual G5 felt about the same or perhaps a little snappier than the 1.8ghz PC - but alas it is about 4x the price - and there are NO portable options that compare - gone are the 'Wallstreet' days when a mac 'laptop' could replace a desktop...

Too bad...

Apple just deosn't really care for international market. Lacking of iTunes Music Store, iPhoto printout, price promotion.. to name the few, these contribute as additional fallout apart from a price aspect.

I have to use PCs and Macs at work. I took delivery of two new XP machines on Monday. They were not el cheapos, but I was genuinely shocked at the poor quality of the design and build: loose fascia panels, flimsy keyboard, etc. Today, a G5 arrived, along with a 23" Cinema Display. Helping me upstairs with the G5, my colleague (who is no Mac zealot) remarked, "You really feel you're carry a solid piece of kit here, and not some cheap plastic rubbish". Most people appreciate quality when they actually see and experience it.

To the guy who thinks the dual G5 only feels "slightly faster" than his 1.8Ghz PC... you obviously don't use your computer for anything other than web browsing and to use MicroCrap Word. For those of us who actually push the processor to its limits, well... a 1.8 PC ain't even in the same league. I laugh at you, PC troll, who thinks he's so informed just because he figured out how to open a web browser. Go buy yourself a typewriter and save some real money then, eh.

I would have to agree here. We have a 3ghz P4 XP machine at work that I have used occasionally, but I have a dual G5 at home. For everyday things, there is minimal difference as far as I can tell. But when more horse power is needed for whatever reason(graphics, rendering, etc), There is no comparison. In fact, our company has done comparisons between the two running the same processor intensive tasks and it's no contest....G5 whips it easily. Cost wise they are about the same. I don't understand people who come on here and make comments about things like this with no empirical evidence and proceed to call any one who disagrees with them a "zealot". It's just childish, but hey whatever floats your boat. Perhaps this so called "troll" is just suffering from low self esteem. Or perhaps mommy and daddy are too cheap to plunk down for a high performance computer and this person is just jealous...thus why he/she would even bother to come on a mac board to bash the good people here. Wish I had that much free time...speaking of....free time over, back to work.

...use microcrap word - and you are correct I haven't used a G5 vs a PC for very intensive tasks - yet - most of my work involves less intensive things such as contracts, data off the web, accounting & billing, etc... although some day soon I hope to do some ray trace rendering, if that might be considered demanding enough by those of you responding with judgemental assumptions about my work, status & other emphatics - I am merely speaking from my own personal experience - so far very positive with the pc...

When one backs off from 'state of the art' to midline - the cost difference widens to the point where the pc seems a much better value, at least in my experience...

Perhaps if your posts didn't sound like the typical 12 year old PC troll people wouldn't make assumptions about you. Plus you also seem to forget that this is a mac board and most people here don't care what your experience on a PC is. We've all had/have to use PC's, it is not as if we are lacking in experience on the comparable PC unit. It does seem though that you are lacking a bit in your experience on a modern day mac. Thus I go back to my original comment which is why do people post subjective speed comparisons and then bash others who disagree with their "opinion"? Perhaps you can answer this for all of us...

Yes, Apple need to forget this "BMW have less than 2% market share and they're happy" stuff.... Please, get the prices down 10-20% and ADVERTISE. You are just preaching to the choir, and not getting the word out. OS X is a great OS, but mom and pop have never ever heard of it.

Why? Why does apple need to have more of the market? If apple is happy and profitable as a company and those of us that buy apple stuff are satisfied, then what difference would it make if apple had a bigger market share? How does that help you as a consumer or is it simply a bragging rights thing? I'm not saying that I wouldn't like to see apple get more market share, but I don't understand why this is so important to people. I personally don't want to be part of the status quo and that goes way beyond computers. Apple makes some of the greatest devices of our time and I own things from them that enhance my life tremendously. If others don't have that in their life then it's their loss.

Hey Dell dude- I have a 2.0 GHZ P4-M Dell with a GB of RAM on XP and an 800MHZ Powerbook Titanium with 768 MB RAM on Panther. They are equally as fast for the same tasks I use them for (email, internet, Word, Excel, graphics) But one big difference- the "task based" Gui of XP keeps me from getting my work done more often than it helps. Those annoying little chevrons in Office that you turn off weekly- only to a "critical update" from MS (released weekly at this point) turn them back on. The super-fast Blue Screens of Death and then the restart, "Tell Microsoft About this Error" pop up that has no helpful information about some random driver (which I have installed NONE) that is causing the crash that happens nearly twice a day for no apparent reason. Yeah- XP and Dell is a great combo. I like using it when I am not in the middle of a 10 page Word Doc or lengthy email response to someone and I get the BSOD. I have heard it is "stable as h***" or whatever- but it isn't as stable as Panther is. And comparing Panther to OS 9- you are a true idiot. The only thing OS 9 could do better was printing on Apple Talk networks. The Panther print center is slow- but it supports more than ONE print protocol- so I give it a break.

Don't forget the Windows viruses that cause your Dell to behave like a possessed evil bot zombie. Where are all the Mac OS X viruses folks?

Why is anyone paying attention to computer marketshare reports from MERRILL LYNCH ANALysts?

They are SO biased it is almost illegal.

The article says that Apple had just under 2% of computer sales in 4Q '03. That does not mean Apple has less than a 2% market share. Macs get replaced and upgraded less often because, as a whole, they're more stable, better built and most importantly, _not_ built around planned obsolesence and yearly/bi-yearly upgrade cycles. Secondly, the Apple core customer base is not Mom and Pop (though I'd be happy if it were), but rather creative professionals who care more about practicing their craft as opposed to getting into fits with virii/incompatible drivers/hacks/etc.

As far as HP selling ~15% last quarter goes, let me ask you to do a little exercise: Next time you go to Best Buy, take a look at the returns line and tell me what PCs you see there. Fine imaging equipment, but shoddy PCs.

And yes, ML analysis ranks up there with Rob Enderle's analyses and John C. Dvorak "writings".

Apple is just RIPE to buy 10-15 small countries and force Macs on them to increase their market share.

... of note to compare the posts of the critic(s) vs the majority of the mac 'defendants', who seem to enjoy using inflamatory statements like idiot, troll, etc - and you wonder why they are referred to as zealots...

Quite true. Merrill Lynch has never considered Apple as a key player in the computer industry. When Apple makes good profit, ML will simply deny that fact and advise people who own Apple stock to sell it. What a company !

On CNBC a while back Steve Jobs was asked about what he thought of the low market share. His reply, "well its more than BMW or Mercedes, and I think we're doing just fine."