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iTunes leaves classical music fans singing the blues

updated 12:55 pm EST, Thu February 5, 2004

ITMS needs (some) help

The Wall Street Journal writes "iTunes site ," noting organizational and searching issues: "But there's bad news, too, and not just bad--disastrous, even disgraceful. The music that showed up when I searched for 'Beethoven' wasn't properly sorted, so the only way I found those Ninth Symphonies was by watching them appear, apparently at random, as I browsed, with increasing disbelief, through 1,500 Beethoven tracks. I stopped after 1,500, but in fact there's still more Beethoven with, for all I know, more Ninths buried there."

by MacNN Staff

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02/05, 01:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
search better?

Why would you search for "Beethoven" when you want some of the 61 songs you find with "Beethoven Symphony 9"?

I think that Beethoven is a bad example of how it is be disorganized, many people record his numerous works, and name their CD's and songs however they want.
iolaire

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02/05, 01:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
metal?

What I want to know is, why is there no Metal catagory in the iTunes. Surely there are a lot of Mac users that are Metal fans. The genre deserves it's own catagory.
Does Jobs have something against heavy metal?

Rock On!

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02/05, 01:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
why not browse?

If you use the browse function and look for ludwig van Beethoven the albums are listed which then groups the songs by album, much easier if you are looking for a specific version of a piece.

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02/05, 01:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Exactly

You can browse or use a more precise search string. This guy wants to change the way music is "encoded" because he doesn't know how to edit his ID3 tags (which are standardized).

Why do publications like the Wall Street Journal let non-tech savvy people write tech articles???

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02/05, 01:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
Just as messed up as CDDB

The iTMS classical listings are just as screwed up as the ones in CDDB--in CDDB, it's not unusual to see the section of a piece ("I. Allegro" or whatever) or the composer in the "Artist" field and nothing in the composer field. If iTMS is getting their track title data from CDDB (as I suspect they are), then it's not surprising that the info is all f***ed up.

(I did try to correct as many of the CDDB listings as I could when I ripped my classical collection.....)

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02/05, 01:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Exactly

Why do publications like the Wall Street Journal let non-tech savvy people write tech articles??? - well it shows up any shortcomings.

Good design should mean that systems are easy to use - something Apple was once famed for (and still are for many of their products)

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02/05, 01:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
Um-

What fan of classical music, in good taste listens to AACs or MP3s of classics? This is ridiculous! The quality is too too poor.

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02/05, 01:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
Backwards Organization

I'm struck by the listing of composers and artists in first-name order. When I want to find something by Liszt, I shouldn't have to remember that his first name was Franz. Try searching for Gabrieli. It's there, but a search on "Gabrieli" shows nothing. Searching on "Giovanni" or "Antonio" produces results. That's unsat and needs to be fixed.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge iTMS fan - but there's definitely room for improvement in the Classical section.

...and why do I find Led Zeppelin in that section? OY!

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02/05, 02:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
ignorance

The iTunes Music Store does not use CDDB.

The iTunes Music Store uses the information provided directly from the music labels.

"Some were labeled only with the conductor's name, so I couldn't tell which orchestra was playing."

Blame the label.

"Sometimes only the orchestra was listed, so I couldn't tell who was conducting."

Blame the label.

"Sometimes there was no information at all, making the performance completely anonymous."

No information at all??? It would have to have some kind of information. Anyway, it is up to the label to have the information entered into the iTunes Music Store database. Apple is not at fault here.

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02/05, 02:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
sound quality

Classical is the absolute worst type of music to be compressed by MP3 or similar encoding schemes. The dynamic range and subtlety are too much.

Classical music needs to be purchased on CDs.

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02/05, 02:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Classical is not that bad

I don't know what Classical you've listened to. Probably by some no name conducter. They finally got some good Herbert von Karajan recordings in there. The problem with iTMS is that you have to know what you are looking for. Once you do, you usually can find it. I've found the Classical on iTMS to be very good quality. You just need high quality headphones to hear how good it is.

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02/05, 03:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Sound Quality- no kidding

Downloading classical music I see as nothing more than a way to sample some unfamiliar music.

The few classical tracks I've converted to mp3's in iTunes (at 192 kbps) still sound crappy. AND I use either Etymotic EP4 or Grado SR-125 headphones with an Echo Indigo PC Card sound card with my PowerBook, too! CDs just sound better.

Yeah, I've tried searching for classical music on the iTunes store and found not only spotty selections from various composers', but movements missing from different pieces. Longer movements (20 minutes+) are absent, so, forget Bruckner or Mahler or Shostakovich. And WORSE, contemporary and avant garde music are nearly absent.

Really, what's the point of downloading classical music? It sounds bad... dynamics, detail and accuracy are practically non-existant. Why would I spend time and money, not to mention the waste of disk space, downloading a 30 minute concerto, an hour-long symphony or an entire opera, when a pile of CDs does just fine. I can swap between several different interpretations of different works whenever I like.

Classical music is cutting new ground AGAIN with different audio formats with higher sampling rates than CD (HDCD, SACD, DVD Audio), so why listen to mp3 with AM car radio sound?

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02/05, 03:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: sound quality

Perhaps for those of you with great hearing, MP3 or the like is inadequate. For somebody like me, who has spent some time working around loud machinery and exploding ordnance, MP3 is just fine. Therefore, for me classical music just needs to be purchased...listened to and appreciated to the best of my ability.

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02/05, 04:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
media

Really, this music should only be listened to when played by your local symphony (or chamber) orchestra. If you're going to listen to a reproduction, one is about as bad as another. There's nothing magical about CD audio as the gold standard. It's actually not that great.

I've listened to a lot of orchestral music on a car FM radio, because that's when I can hear it, and CBC-2 plays a lot of interesting stuff (also I lot that does nothing for me). Mostly it makes me want to hear it performed live, the way all music is meant to be heard.

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02/05, 04:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
um

CDs can sound immensely better than MP3 or FM radio.

That's a fact.

Of course they don't sound as good as the real thing, that's also a fact.

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02/05, 05:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yeah

Let's attack people who dare to question Anything Apple related. They should not be using ITMS. They are all PeeCee n**** committing crimes aginst humanity!

I am being sarcastic, dimits. I hate zealots.

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02/05, 06:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
classical on ITMS

All of you are wrong. Classical music can't possibly be enjoyed unless you have attained a PhD in conducting and composition from Julliard and are on the podium of the world's greatest orchestras. I don't listen to it on radio, or media of any kind, or even imagine what it sounds like in my head while reading scores.

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02/05, 08:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
Roll over Beethoven

and tell Tchaikovsky the news.

Gonna write a little letter
Gonna mail it to my local DJ...

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02/05, 08:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
RIPE.

this store is just RIPE to download 10-15 classical live jams.

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02/05, 08:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
Blindfold Test

The delusional people who think that classical music shouldn't be listened to in a compressed format should take a blindfold test. I've seen many self-styled "audiophiles" exposed as audiophonies in such tests -- like the group of snooty magazine reviewers that chose a Radio Shack system over McIntosh when they could only hear, and not see.

Davoud

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02/05, 09:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
iTMS No Different Than...

Perhaps the iTunes Music Store does have problems with classical music organization. But let me tell you, its no different than your local record store. I worked at a National Record Mart during high school and college. I hated the days when the shipment would arrive and I'd be stuck with sorting and stocking the classical CDs and tapes.

I am a popular and jazz music fanatic, but I know little about classical. And it showed when I put out the product. Was I supposed to sort by title? By composer? By orchestra? By label? And there were some instances when I looked at the longbox and couldn't figure out what was what. Better stick that with Mozart.

And I wasn't alone. Everyone at our store did it. Everyone at Camelot Music did it. Sam Goody, too. The two indie shops in town didn't even bother with classical except for a few titles by LaserLight.

As someone pointed out earlier, the record labels are responsible for how things are sent to, and therefore listed, in iTMS. Do you think Capitol has their VP of classical music encoding AAC files? No. They have high school and college kids making minimum wage doing it - just like those kids at NRM stocking the shelves with classical CDs. They have little idea and, for the most part, are probably guessing.

The problem of organizing classical music runs deeper than just iTMS. The WSJ should run down to Tower and take a look before singling anyone out.

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02/06, 01:00am | report spam | close Reply |
Wrong again.

Hey, if ITMS/Apple/Jobs do something wrong, I am not afraid to criticize them, unlike some zealots here who would worship Steve's poo if he would let them.

I am a classical music lover. I do listen to my tunes encoded to AAC on my iPod but when possible, I do listen to them on CD with my Maggie speakers. Yes, I do go to live concerts when I can but you will not find Karajan conducting or Callas singing anytime soon. I live in a mojor metropolitan (LA) and even then not all the "hot" classical performers are all in town.

And as for Tower records, I do go to them. Try the one on Sunset - the classical music get its own store! And how to organize music? Ever visit Tower Classical or asked a library? It's easy - by type (opera, symphony, chamber) by composer by artist. If you or Apple do not know how to organize it, it is for lack of trying, not because it is impossible.

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02/06, 05:38am | report spam | close Reply |
took me half a minute

I just clicked on advanced search, entered "beethoven" as the composer and "9" as the title and got 116 results. the 1st 32 were all for "Symphony No. 9" and by clicking on "view album" I found some of the finest recordings in history in an instant. I don't see a problem there other that the writer of the article is too old to use a search engine.

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02/06, 07:55am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Wrong again

"If you or Apple do not know how to organize it, it is for lack of trying, not because it is impossible."

Apple is not responsible for organizing it. The organization depends upon how it is entered into the database. Apple does not enter it into the database; the labels enter their own music in the database.

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02/06, 07:57am | report spam | close Reply |
get real

"And as for Tower records, I do go to them. Try the one on Sunset - the classical music get its own store!"

ok thanks...I will just hop on a plane and fly to L.A. whenever I want to shop for some classical music...

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02/06, 08:56am | report spam | close Reply |
Why download Classical?

My question is why would you buy Classical Music on iTMS when classical CDs can be had for $3-$4? It really doesn't make sense to download some of their offerings.

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iTunes leaves classical music fans singing the blues

updated 12:55 pm EST, Thu February 5, 2004

ITMS needs (some) help

search better?

metal?

why not browse?

Exactly

Just as messed up as CDDB

Re: Exactly

Um-

Backwards Organization

ignorance

sound quality

Classical is not that bad

Sound Quality- no kidding

Re: sound quality

media

um

Yeah

classical on ITMS

Roll over Beethoven

RIPE.

Blindfold Test

iTMS No Different Than...

Wrong again.

took me half a minute

Re: Wrong again

get real

Why download Classical?

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iTunes leaves classical music fans singing the blues

updated 12:55 pm EST, Thu February 5, 2004

ITMS needs (some) help

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Recent Articles

search better?

metal?

why not browse?

Exactly

Just as messed up as CDDB

Re: Exactly

Um-

Backwards Organization

ignorance

sound quality

Classical is not that bad

Sound Quality- no kidding

Re: sound quality

media

um

Yeah

classical on ITMS

Roll over Beethoven

RIPE.

Blindfold Test

iTMS No Different Than...

Wrong again.

took me half a minute

Re: Wrong again

get real

Why download Classical?

Login Here

Register for our weekly email newsletter:

Connect tools:

Subscribe

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on Twitter

10 Most Read

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