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Microsoft Xbox revision to use G5, new ATI chips

updated 11:10 am EST, Mon February 2, 2004

Xbox to use G5 chips?

The Mercury News reports that in its next-generation Xbox due in the fall of 2004 before Sony's PlayStation 3 launch (expected in 2006): "The details suggest Microsoft is far more concerned about keeping the cost of its Xbox Next console low than it is with including dazzling technological features or driving its rivals out of the business...[It will feature] (1) Three IBM-designed 64-bit microprocessors. The combined power of these chips means the Xbox Next will have more computing power than most personal computers. The chips are used in Apple Computer's high-end G5 PowerMac machines now. (2) A graphics chip designed by ATI Technologies with speeds much faster than its upcoming R400 chip for the personal computer. This chip will help the next Xbox to display games with the resolution of high-definition TV."

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02/02, 11:24am | report spam | close Reply |
Fall of 2005

Not 2004.

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02/02, 11:26am | report spam | close Reply |
Oh yeah

i'm a 30 year old virgin living with my parents and i'll DEFINITELY be buying one

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02/02, 11:29am | report spam | close Reply |
Probably a jab at Intel

I'll bet Microsoft released this as a way of pushing Intel into giving them a better deal. I have a hard time believing that MS would abandon their longitme relationship with Intel this easily.

On the other hand, it would be great to see this happen. Whatever technology or API MS comes up with to bridge XBox Next/Windows may also help to bring them to the Mac.

I also thought it was nice that MS might increase the RAM to "512 Gigabytes". THAT would be a nice setup . . .

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02/02, 11:29am | report spam | close Reply |
I wonder...

...if the G5 used will be a tweaked version or a full-on production 970 (or newer)? If it's the latter, what would stop M$ from writing a complete version of Windows for PPC?

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02/02, 11:30am | report spam | close Reply |
scale of production

think of what implications that could have for the cost of the individual chips used in our favorite machines...

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02/02, 11:32am | report spam | close Reply |
Conspiracy theory

Microsoft wants to create a platform that can be hacked to run Mac OS X so that people will buy the tri-processor Xbox. This accomplishes two goals. People won't be hacking their Xbox to run Windows anymore, and Apple will lose sales of hardware, further marginalizing their platform. Bill is SOOOO easy to see through. Most criminals are.

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02/02, 11:40am | report spam | close Reply |
if true, very sweet

"For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his owne petar"

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02/02, 11:42am | report spam | close Reply |
Not likely

Why would thye bother to port all that Windows code to the PPC when they could just as easily use a cheaper Intel or AMD processor? Makes zero sense.

And as for Windows running on a Mac, I wouldn't count on it. What would the point be? Who the h*** would run WIndows on a Mac? Even if it did materialize, it still couldn't run Windows software.

This is not going to happen.

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02/02, 11:56am | report spam | close Reply |
XMac..

Would the TriG5 sound like a airplane? Doesn't the G5s run hot and loud? Is this the Cube all over again? TV graphic output sucks, so why the advanced video card? Why do I park in the driveway and drive on the parkway........?

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02/02, 11:59am | report spam | close Reply |
G5 must be good...

All that memory bandwidth must majke the G5 one h*** of a gaming chip. OSX and Intel have nothing to do with this decision. Microsoft wants the best performance compared to PS2.

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02/02, 12:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Personally

I think this is to get Intel to go down in price.

But if M$ uses the 970 then we will benefit because IBM can make more and drive down the cost of production so the Power Macs would have a lower price tag.

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02/02, 12:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hmm...Sounds

too good to be true

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02/02, 12:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
I wonder...

If it would be competitively price? $299 for a three processor Supercomputer with advanced Graphics?

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02/02, 12:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
Been done before

Pre-production Xboxes had Athlons inside. Then at the last minute, InHell gave M$ a deal they couldn't refuse. That's why they have peee3's in them.

WinBlows did run on PPC chips. NT4. Ran ok, but was not binary compatible with the x86. Flopped miserably.

WinCE, which the Xbox is based already runs on RISC and has been ported to just about every RISC CPU out there. The HPC's are running RISC stuff (mainly InHell's StrongARM), so a port to PPC should be relatively easy.

What will kill M$ is no backwards compatability. That's going to be their blunder. Have a XBox today and want to upgrade?? Sure, just toss all your $50-70 games. At least with PS2 you could still play your PS1 games while you amassed a PS2 collection.

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02/02, 12:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
They won't kill it

They bought VPC and are working on it to use the graphics card directly and improve the CPU usage.

It all makes sense now.

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02/02, 12:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
duh!

"TV graphic output sucks, so why the advanced video card?"

Wow, you don't know much about gaming consoles, do you? What a completely ignorant question.

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02/02, 12:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
So XBox 2

Will be EVEN BIGGER than that big pile of c*** they have now. Lovely, just imagine all the heat with 3 procs and a big a** gfx card. Families will save money on heating just by playing the thing.

And lets hope M$ follows the lead they did with the first XBox, loosing alot of money per machine sold and then fall far behind Nintendo and Sony in unit sales. Self inflicted financial loss. smashing.

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02/02, 12:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Xmac

"Doesn't the G5s run hot and loud?"

No, you are thinking of Prescott systems.

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02/02, 12:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
$2750 cheaper to boot!

Cool, so the same chip in my $3000 interstellar super computer is also going to power ar $250 game console?

I like apple and all, but living under their high margin tutelege rubs my butt sometimes.

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02/02, 12:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
Microsoft Incompatible?

``I can't imagine that Microsoft would be so insanely stupid as to make it incompatible,'' said Jon Peddie, an analyst at Jon Peddie Research in Tiburon.

For anybody that read the article, I thought this to be the funniest part of it all. They were talking about how Playstation games run on Playstation 2 and that more than likely Xbox games will not run on Xbox Next and the guy says he can't believe they'd make it incompatible....When has Microsoft ever been known to make things compatible???? Isn't that the whole idea behind Microsoft products to be incompatible. How can people not relize this by now?

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02/02, 12:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
CAN YOU SAY

XBOX NEXT EMULATION on THE MAC!!!! and HOPEFULLY CHEAPER G5's for the Mac!!!

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02/02, 12:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: i'm a 30 year old v

Now now, don't be jealous just b/c you're not saving as much money. ;)

In any case...the new Xbox with g5 processors. Oh the irony of it all.

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02/02, 12:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: XMac

"Would the TriG5 sound like an airplane?"
Nope
"Doesn't the G5s run hot and loud?"
Nope - you can barely tell it's on.
"Is this the Cube all over again?"
MS made a cube?
"TV graphic output sucks, so why the advanced video card?"
Go to an electronics store and ask to see a demo of HDTV.

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02/02, 12:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
An Apple G5 processor?

This HAS to be a joke. Does no one remember the Pippin debacle?

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02/02, 12:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
virtual game station

Now, what we need is something like the connectix virtual game station that allowed us to play playstation games on our old macs!
(I had more than decent speed on my g3 266 mhz)

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02/02, 12:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
This thread proves...

...that MacNN attracts some of the dumbest people on the net.

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02/02, 12:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
gaming

suprised that they need 3 of those chips, anyhow, yes mac OS X on this box will be attempted, you can be sure of that, and when it DOES happen, you can bet I'll be the first in line to buy it and then copy a cd of OSx to install on it. Imagine creating a cluster of these machines! 3 CPU per box, all under $300.00 How much did ya pay for that dual G5 again???

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02/02, 01:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
blah

Current video cards can run games at a higher resolution than HDTV already.

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02/02, 01:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not cheaper G5s

They'd be using a different variety of these chips. Since its a different fab process, it will not affect the price of the G5 for apple (and like that would matter, anyway. Not like apple to cut prices of their models just because components are cheaper).

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02/02, 01:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
well know soon

if x2 uses a 2ghz 970 chip, and vpc7 runs at about 33% efficiency, then there should be no reason why the x2 couldn't run x1 games.

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02/02, 01:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re:

Why do you assume OS X would run on these machines? Darwin might be able to run, but there's no saying OS X would. Plus, no one's got Linux running on a current xBox, so why are you assuming that since its a G5, someone will be able to get OSX running on it???

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02/02, 01:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
XboxLinux

I thought they had done that already? Didn't someone already get a cluster of Linux Xboxen running? I could have swore they did...

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02/02, 01:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
Memory

"I also thought it was nice that MS might increase the RAM to "512 Gigabytes". THAT would be a nice setup . . . "

Uhm, yeah, that would be nice, but it's 512 Megabytes, not Gigabytes. 512 GB would be insane!

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02/02, 01:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
Dumb, Dumber, Dummist..

So you say that cuurent video cards have more power than a HDTV has? That is my point. If you are going to supercharge the graphic card in the new XBox II, then you need a DVI / monitor output, especially if there will be some type of web interface, which at this point I will theorize "Yes." It may be an upgrade from WebTV, but it will be there.

So that come down to a OS for the new XBox II, which may come from what MS learns from VPC and the G5. They will, at the very least, port code to play their 'trump card' -> Windows Media format, and possibly snake their own music store, etc...

Also, watch them add a TiVo type storage to it as well.

And another thing....Don't tell me that the G5 is quite and cool, even though I havent seen one yet, their were so many reports of the noisy hot G4s that I doubt, unless the G5 is a miricle machine, that it is that much better. If it is, great, but a Tri-G5 has got to have a fan and put out heat, ..or I'm your Uncle's uncle....

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02/02, 01:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
thank you

"...that MacNN attracts some of the dumbest people on the net. "

Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. macnn is good for up-to-the-minute news, and complete moron readers for laughing at.

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02/02, 01:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
No Incompatibility?

MS is shooting themselves in the foot if the new XBox can't play older games. This is not desktop OS. They aren't 97% of the market and forcing upgrades in a gaming console is plain dumb.
I was on the fence when I bought the XBox. When it comes time to upgrade, if I have to start all over I'd probably choose PS3.

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02/02, 01:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
Easy

I suppose MS could be doing this for actual speed reasons, but as far as I can tell there's only one, painfully obvious reason to use PPC chips: No hacked Linux X-Boxes.

Considering that they sell the X-Box at a loss, and it's necessarily based on PC components, having it run x86 Linux must really rile them, and if it's powerful enough might eventually cause problems. Make it run on a PPC platform, and not nearly as many people will bother hacking it to run a PPC Linux flavor.

MS remains safe.

Besides, I wouldn't be surprised to see them make it incompatible with the current Box, just so they can re-sell "Halo Next" or whatever. Let's not forget their home electronics division, which the X-Box is the main product of, lost nearly a billion dollars this year, and MS doesn't seem to care at all.

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02/02, 02:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
*bzzt* wrong

"Make it run on a PPC platform, and not nearly as many people will bother hacking it to run a PPC Linux flavor."

Try again. The fact that the machine will be sickeningly fast is plenty of motivation for people to run linux on it. In case you hadn't noticed, there are lots of PPC linux distros out there.

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Re: post 30

There are people who have hacked Linux onto the X Box. There are a platitude of options available. Most involve modding, but I remember one using a bug in a Bond game that would allow Linux to run without the need of a soldering iron.

I think PPC linux would get a huge boost if this pans out. Hundreds of people would want to try to get it to work, and given the years between console releases, it would only be a matter of time.

Backwards compatibility would be nice, but MS' main focus should be improving the hardware. I would argue more people bought a PS2 because of Gran-Turismo 3 than backwards play. It helps, but one or two killer apps are worth more.

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02/02, 03:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Check your facts, dude

"And another thing....Don't tell me that the G5 is quite and cool, even though I havent seen one yet, their were so many reports of the noisy hot G4s that I doubt, unless the G5 is a miricle machine, that it is that much better."

Well, I *have* seen them, and they are very, very quiet. It's a whole new chip, and a whole new cooling system. It has *nothing* in common with the noisy G4, so making assumptions based on that experience doesn't make much sense.

In addition, the towers use the first version of the G5 chip. The new XServes use the second generation 90 nm chips, which have reduced power consumption by over 50%, with a similar reduction in heat. By the time the X-BoxII goes into production, the heat situation will almost certainly be a non-issue.

As to OS X running on it, it can't happen without Apple's proprietary ROMS. You can't have a clone without those puppies.

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02/02, 03:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Panther on XBOX Project

Panther on XBOX Next Project - Coming Soon

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02/02, 03:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
G5

By the time the next Xbox ships, I would imagine the entire Mac product line with be G5 based. I think the G5 will permeate the entire line faster than any other chip in Apple history.

Apple finally has an outstanding CPU provider who can get high yield production on-time. At the rate the G5 is scaling, Apple will easily be able to put them in the consumer products without alienating the pro market. I wouldn't mind a 1.4GHz PPC 970FX based iBook or a 1.6GHz 970FX based iMac. Why not when the pro line will be scaling towards 3GHz and beyond soon?

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02/02, 03:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not the 970

It is very unlikely that this will be the same PPC970 processors in the G5s, or the PPC970FX processors in the XServes and upcoming G5s.

More likely, it will be a single 65 nm, triple-core chip with different specs but a lot of architecture in common. A processor with three main units seems a lot more likely than three processors in a console. The 65 nm chips will be cheaper to produce, cooler, and more than likely available in the right kind of numbers in the time frame we are looking at for the next XBox.

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02/02, 03:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
THE REAL QUESTION IS

If its so much cheaper that they can include 3 G5 chips in the Xbox, then why is Apple so damn $$$$.

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02/02, 04:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Dumb, Dumber, Dummist

"And another thing....Don't tell me that the G5 is quite and cool, even though I havent seen one yet, their were so many reports of the noisy hot G4s that I doubt, unless the G5 is a miricle machine, that it is that much better."

That's the "Dummist" remark I've ever heard. You Haven't seen the G5, yet you don't want to be told that it's cool and quiet. It's 3 times quieter than the G4.

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02/02, 04:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
Sad but true

I never wanted to believe the statements that educators were making on the declining standards of literacy and reasoning in the "video game generation."

But some of the comments here suggest the truth: most of these game players can't identify a fact from a jackal or reach a conclusion faster than a warthog.

Please, please, spend less time FRAGGING and more time THINKING.

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02/02, 04:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: the real question

If its so much cheaper that they can include 3 G5 chips in the Xbox, then why is Apple so damn $$$$.

Well, first of all, since the machine is two years away, the current costs vs. projected costs (not to mention the console sells for a loss) can break that down for you. Second, you make the assumption these are the same chips that are in the Macs. They most likely will not be (there's many variations of any chip out there - IBM and Motorola both sell embedded versions of the PPC chip to other manufacturers, like cars, Tivos, etc.

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02/02, 04:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
Some of you don't get it

MS doesn't care about people hacking the Xbox to run Linux (which YES, has been done), they want to stop people modding their Xboxes to play pirated games (emulators, etc.) or to save games onto their hard drives. More importantly, they want to trim costs as they change their video game strategy from trying to dominate the market (which just isn't going to happen as long as the industry is centered in Japan) to having a profitable coexistence with Sony.

It would do you people some good to learn about the video game industry. When it comes to the Xbox, MS is worried about Sony and to a lesser extent, Nintendo. If they end up using the G5, it wouldn't be in any attempt to sabotage Apple, but to offer game developers an easier to program for alternative to Sony's seemingly more complicated Cell Processor.

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02/02, 04:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
Economies of Scale

If the new xBox (or is it XbOX?) uses the same G5s (two years from now) that Apple is putting into it machines then the economies of scale achieved by IBM will not necessarily off-set the huge increase in DEMAND for the chips that this will represent. That increased demand will drive chip prices up, not down.

If the chips are substantially different, worse could conceivably happen. If IBM has to choose between diverting limited resources to meet Apple's demand (a tiny fraction of their output) and what will be M$ demand (which will likely represent a far more important customer to them) where do you think those resources will go?

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02/02, 05:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
Backward Campatability

How much would it cost M$ -- in 2006 -- to put a P3 directly into the new xBox, right along side the three G5s? Or have a type of VPC integrated into the system? Compared to the cost of the G5s, it seems to me the price for that would be rather low.

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02/02, 05:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
apple

As to OS X running on it, it can't happen without Apple's proprietary ROMS. You can't have a clone without those puppies

Who says they need apples permission? Hackers will just take what they need. Just go to a mac, and rape the ROM data and there ya go!

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02/02, 06:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
Wellll....

"Who says they need apples permission? Hackers will just take what they need. Just go to a mac, and rape the ROM data and there ya go!"

There would still be the little problem of the mother board, hardware connects, and other physical limitations preventing the use of the ROM data. OS X isn't just married to the chip, it's dependent on the ROM and the circuitboard.

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02/02, 06:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: well

Except apple isn't using proprietary ROMs like they did previously. Closest thing they'd have to worry about is open firmware, and that's not much of a proprietary ROM.

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02/02, 07:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
microsoft...

...has NO LOYALTY to any hardware manufacturers. PERIOD. if they thought that the G5 was the way to go for world domination, you'd have xp on dualies inside of the year.

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02/02, 08:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
uuuggghhhh

who gives a c*** about xbox anyways... I'm going to buy PS3 no matter how much more expensive it is.

Armored Core, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Gran Turismo and Smash Brothers are the only console games that matter.

Let's talk about something REALLY important in this thread like when is Diablo III coming out??

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03/01, 10:27am | report spam | close Reply |
Windows on PPC

..if the G5 used will be a tweaked version or a full-on production 970 (or newer)? If it's the latter, what would stop M$ from writing a complete version of Windows for PPC?

...That is the question.

mtroute
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NO F'n Way

what kind of BS is this, according to "Industry Sources" which means some dumbass weblog:

"The details suggest Microsoft is far more concerned about keeping the cost of its Xbox Next console low than it is with including dazzling technological features or driving its rivals out of the business"

How does using THREE 64bit processors equal low cost? How does using a GPU faster than anything ATI makes available to PC's keep costs low?

This whole story is a bunch of speculative c*** based on Internet "rumors" from "industry sources"...

Nice reporting SJ Merc...

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09/14, 06:13am | report spam | close Reply |
IBM's chips

IBM makes more than the G5. They also produce G4 and G3 chips.

With three IBM chips, I would imagine one would be a memory controller and another the bus controller, like in the G5.

Oh yeah, three-way SMP!

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Microsoft Xbox revision to use G5, new ATI chips

updated 11:10 am EST, Mon February 2, 2004

Xbox to use G5 chips?

Related Articles

Recent Articles

Fall of 2005

Oh yeah

Probably a jab at Intel

I wonder...

scale of production

Conspiracy theory

if true, very sweet

Not likely

XMac..

G5 must be good...

Personally

Hmm...Sounds

I wonder...

Been done before

They won't kill it

duh!

So XBox 2

re: Xmac

$2750 cheaper to boot!

Microsoft Incompatible?

CAN YOU SAY

re: i'm a 30 year old v

Re: XMac

An Apple G5 processor?

virtual game station

This thread proves...

gaming

blah

Not cheaper G5s

well know soon

Re:

XboxLinux

Memory

Dumb, Dumber, Dummist..

thank you

No Incompatibility?

Easy

*bzzt* wrong

Re: post 30

Check your facts, dude

Panther on XBOX Project

G5

Not the 970

THE REAL QUESTION IS

re: Dumb, Dumber, Dummist

Sad but true

Re: the real question

Some of you don't get it

Economies of Scale

Backward Campatability

apple

Wellll....

Re: well

microsoft...

uuuggghhhh

Windows on PPC

NO F'n Way

IBM's chips

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