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The "new battle" between Apple and MIcrosoft

updated 04:05 pm EST, Tue January 20, 2004

MS vs. Apple battle

USA Today posted a story on the "new" battle between over the online music market. "Microsoft lost the first round of the digital music war," says Phil Leigh, an analyst with research firm Inside Digital Media. Apple's iTunes software "was good enough to persuade (H-P) to switch. That's huge." Last year, Microsoft signed up company after company (including Wal-Mart, Musicmatch and Best Buy) to sell digital music in the Windows Media format. It clearly had the companies on its side � even while Apple was winning the heart of consumers. "There's a lot of confusion about different formats," says Mike McGuire, analyst with research firm GartnerG2. "But the digital music business is so young right now, nothing's permanent." Interestingly, the article notes that there are 2 million iPods and 4 million portable devices that can play Windows Media (Dell, Creative Labs and Rio Audio)

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01/20, 04:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
woo!

woo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! woo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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01/20, 04:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
wma

I keep saying and nobody is listening... Apple digging in it's heels and refusing to support wma/DRM format is going to be the eventual "relegation to niche" that plagues them in computer hardware. Supporting it sells more iPods and increases their marketshare. They say over and over they are NOT making money on iTMS... that it's only there to sell iPods.

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01/20, 04:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
WMA

Usual M$ stuff - let's sign up all the corporate biggies (sign or we'll not give you our best stuff!)then tell the consumer what M$ thinks is best for them.

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01/20, 04:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
I feel nausious

at the thought of the ignorance and plainness that windows users will just accept because they are spoon fed this diarhea of putridity and defective s***.

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01/20, 04:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
4 million WMA players

I own one of those 4 million WMA players (a Rio flash player).

I also own a 10GB G2 iPod.

Guess which one sits in a drawer unused?

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01/20, 04:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
The big problem...

is that WMA isn't as good as AAC, why should people feel pressured to use it? because a tiny niche in the online music market uses it? s**** that. The best players use the best format. Enjoy it.

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01/20, 04:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
4 mil? How many used?

I have 2 WMA devices. Both aren't worth the power to blow them to h*** and have not been powered up in at least 2 years. I *think* my DVD player plays the WMA format also, never tried but it says WMA on the front. If they count those devices then the numbers aren't all telling. I'd bet most folks that purchased an iPod and didn't run over it with the car are still using them. :-)

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01/20, 04:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
4 million

As soon as I saw that number I was thinking about how many are still being used.. I think that a lot of Windows devices are sold, but many are not used -- I know, because I bought one as a gift for someone that doesn't use it anymore.. the post above me confirms what I know to be true as well.

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01/20, 04:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
WMA?

WHy would apple liscence WMA from microsoft instead of supporting open standards? Apple is all about open standards like MPEG family style product. MP3 b**** slapped M$ wma before, and its stilll doing it now. WHy wold soemone wantsome S***** wma that sounds like junk, and pay for M$ for using it? CMON NOW

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01/20, 04:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple Rules...

Microsoft fools...

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01/20, 04:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
fuuny thing is

"Last year, Microsoft signed up company after company (including Wal-Mart, Musicmatch and Best Buy) to sell digital music in the Windows Media format. It clearly had the companies on its side" and now they are nowhere near as popular as ITMS. Buy.who? Who-Mart? Music What?

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01/20, 04:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
/*NoMusicFromMicrosoft*/

/* With Microsoft, as the name implies, music will never be quite loud enough. */

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01/20, 04:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
HP and Apple

I suspect that this HP-Apple deal with iPods is an experiment for both companies, and that Steve Jobs and Carly Fiorina have discussed the possibility of allowing HP to license the Mac OS. Think about it: HP ain't no Power Computing -- if HP sold Macs, it would have a huge effect on Mac market share, and instantly legitimize the Mac OS for corporate customers. Could be a great deal for both companies. Maybe they would even be the first Intel-based Mac computers.

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01/20, 04:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
who the bleep?

Who in the bleep uses WMA format anyways???? Dear god, people. Windows users use MP3 format. Why? Because MP3 format is FREE and available to all those cronies who use kazaa, morpheous, etc;. If and when WMA actually makes an impact, Apple could consider it.

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01/20, 04:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
Once again

AAC !=open standard.

First, AAC is not open. It is as closed as WMA, MP3, RA, etc i.e. they are all owned by a corporation and its encoders/decoders are not freely distributable commercialy.

Second, consumer decides what is the standard not the corporation. Sony can proclaim Betamax is the standard and is superior in picture quality (which it was) but does that make it a standard.

Lastly, the people who want WMA on iPod are not the corporations. It is the iPod consumers. What is wrong with the company listening to what the consumer wants?

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01/20, 04:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
wma

the ipod won't support WMA until WMA is irrelevant or the ipod is irrelevant, at the moment there is no compelling reason to use WMA, but there are a number of reasons the ipod is superior to other players. as long as apple continues to make the ipod a covetous item that is within the realm of possibility for most consumers there are only negative consequences for apple supporting WMA.

don't believe steve's assertations that the itunes music store doesn't make any money. it might not right now at 1 million songs a week, but 2 years from now, when it's 1 million songs a day, apple will be making money from it. WMA support for the ipod would kill iTMS.

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01/20, 04:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
MS

Bill Gates - Take it in the a$$ champ!

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01/20, 04:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
a*******!

Don't fukc with Microsoft! Keep it on the downlow, peeps!

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01/20, 04:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
!= || ==

!=

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pepsi

pepsi

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01/20, 04:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:Anal Entries

Please watch your language.

Thank you.

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01/20, 05:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Dentist

I can't hear anymore and I have all these cavities!

This rules dude!!!

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01/20, 05:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
WMA devices: misleading

I think that while 4 millions devices support WMA format, far fewer of those devices actually support the playback of WMA-DRM files that are used in music stores. Many devices have been supporting WMA for years but only recently have devices shipped that support WMA-DRM, hence there are actually more devices out there that support AAC-DRM (iPods) than devices that support DRM'd files from any of the M$ stores. At least that's what I think.

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01/20, 05:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
CORRECTION

The article states that there are 2 million iPods, and 4 million other music players that play the Windows Media format. They do not state that the iPod plays WMA.

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01/20, 05:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple Records, er um ....

Aren't Apple Computer and Apple Records still slugging it out in court ?

I like the new products and momentum, but aren't they really becoming (in part) a music company? I think that Apple Records is way out of line in insisting that the name "apple" is theirs so exclusively, but will the new focus add fuel to their attorneys' fire?

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01/20, 05:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
No...

Apple C. is just reselling music, since Apple R. doesn't directly resell music, they are in two different spaces.

Apple R. is just money hungry. How is the iPOD anything but a music playback device? Something the Mac could do for decades.

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01/20, 05:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
WMA Devices

There are about to be WMA compatable reciever/head-units for audiophiles and cars. One thing that I just learned is the WMA supports multichannel formats! Competing with DTS, Dolby Digital, and SRS Surround in 5.1, 6.1. 6.2, 7.1/2,8.1/2 channels.

One encoder to generate all formats from movie theaters, to stereo, to internet streaming to mono radio. This is somthing substantial and apple had better have a handle on it.

(Also, notice that PowerMacs have built in optical that supports up to 8 channels - there's hope)

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01/20, 05:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
no one said

no one said aac was open. Thegentelman simply stated that mPEG was open, IE MP$ that aopples uses. It just happens to be scalable enough to allow for DRM.

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01/20, 05:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Multichanel

AAC does support multi chanels such as 5.1 audio.

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01/20, 05:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
My policy

I have made it a point of refusing anything that M$ is forcing into my throat. They have done that long enough, and I'm tired of it. If I can live without it, I will... if not look for an alternative technology... but some times, you just have to bite your teeth and buy into it if no alternatives are present.

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01/20, 05:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Who cares

I don't care whether AAC is better than WMF. I don't hear the difference, really. And I think formats really don't matter in the case of music. Software is another thing. You can't run Mac software on Windows and vice versa(emulation is a joke). But with music, if I have access to 500000 songs+ on the itms, I can literally listen to all the music I've ever wanted. Music's just platform independent, and that's cool, regardless what player you prefer.

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01/20, 05:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
apple corp

this is the site where the beatles and other bands recordered their music. This isnt the apple company that makes computers.

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01/20, 06:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
did you catch Carly's ra

ZD.net got it in RealPlayer, she says in June they are going to release it BIG TIME flooding all 110,000 international retail outlets and iTunes will be bundled with every one. That means QT goes on buyers machines as well. If they succeed this will push the Apple DNA onto more and more PCs, people want something that works well, is easy and readily available, iTunes will crush anything that M$ trys to come out with. Hey "who cares" ya duh, iTunes and Quicktime already run quite well in Windoze and the base is growing fast, no emulation ding dong.

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01/20, 06:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Who knows?!?!

Who cares will care when he finds out that music is NOT platform independant and he tries to play crappy wma on a stereo, ACC is bad enough on an audio system. "I don't think formats matter in the case of music" ?!? Probably hasn't had to replace the old 8-track in the car either. Intelligent people like this is why windows has been allowed to exist as its junky self for all these years. I know, all computers crash regularly and have to be reloaded a couple times a year right? You're gettin a Dell dude and you deserve it.

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01/20, 06:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
stuff

1. Open != Free. AAC is an open standard, but that doesn't mean that it is free. An open standard is one that anyone can add to, and anyone can add to AAC. M$ is the sole entity that can change WMA, hence it is closed. The fact that AAC is accepted by the industry gives it more credit as a standard, whereas WMA being accepted simply because you can't avoid M$ standards gives it a far more proprietary flavor.

2. If your most common customer complaint is why your services doesn't work with a particular device, then perhaps it would be a good idea to make it compatible. This is one of the most sound of business advice, makes you wonder why MusicMatch doesn't contact Apple to discover how to create and sell Protected AAC files =)

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01/20, 06:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
there about to be�

Windows 2003 Server shipped months ago and there "was going to be" Digital Rights Management that was going to shake up the industry. Reality check, the current XP client required is still in beta and there is NO mac client. I think the guys in the Office 2004 commercials are partying because the server crashed and they have the rest of the day off! Moral of the story? Don't hold your breath for those WMA devices, they'll probably require Longhorn, aka XP 2008!

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01/20, 06:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
2 MP3 players

I'm another person with two MP3 players. The iPod is by my side right now. The Rio I gave up on and I gave to a co-worker, and he can't figure out how to get it to work either.

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01/20, 06:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
AAC = Open, AAC+DRM not

Someone posted a 'correction' saying that AAC is not an open format. Actually it is. And a damn good one if you're looking at lossy compression. It's just Apple's DRM implementation for the iTMS that introduces a proprietary format.

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01/20, 07:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
I don't care which

is better, what matters is that WMA is a Microsoft format and Microsoft is an evil criminal organization. Why hand it another monopoly?

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01/20, 08:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
iPod vs everything else

What does it matter if there are more WMA players than iPods out there if they cannot connect to the coolest music store on the Internet? As Jobs said, iTunes Music Store is the Microsoft of digital music. Let all the other competitors figure out a way to work with iTunes rather than the other way around.

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01/20, 08:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
Steve vs. Bill

I hope Apple stops promoting that stupid Microsoft Office for the Mac and develop it own word processing suite. That should put a dent in M$ cash cow!! Anthing is better than that processor hog!

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01/20, 10:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Sure

"AAC does support multi chanels such as 5.1 audio."

Sure, but where is the material. WMA already have this out, both on the web and as commercially available DVD (T3, for example). Apple is way behind on this.

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01/20, 10:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
WMA Support

Here's an idea:

Apple could charge a fee for a firmware update that adds WMA support. This would cover their licensing costs while not charging people who don't care about WMA. Regardless of whether WMA sucks or not, it's quite popular and most competing devices support it.

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01/20, 10:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Again

"AAC is an open standard, but that doesn't mean that it is free. An open standard is one that anyone can add to, and anyone can add to AAC."

Wrong again. AAC is not an open standard as it is owned by Dolby. No one can add anything to AAC except Dolby. Go ahead, try it and if you can I will buy you that dualie 2 ghz and 23" Cinema display.

"M$ is the sole entity that can change WMA, hence it is closed."

Dolby is the only one that can change AAC; Real is the only one that can change RA; Fraunhofer is the only one that can change MP3. All of those codecs are closed.

"The fact that AAC is accepted by the industry gives it more credit as a standard, whereas WMA being accepted simply because you can't avoid M$ standards gives it a far more proprietary flavor."

And as I said, consumers decide what is a satndard. Not MS, not Dolby, not Sony, etc. And don't speak for people who choose WMA. Where's the AAC support for mathematically lossless compression and multichannel?

"If your most common customer complaint is why your services doesn't work with a particular device, then perhaps it would be a good idea to make it compatible."

What, like make iPod WMA compatible?

"This is one of the most sound of business advice, makes you wonder why MusicMatch doesn't contact Apple to discover how to create and sell Protected AAC files"

How do you know it hasn't? How do you know there's even a demand for MM to sell AAC? Are you just being wrong again?

"Someone posted a 'correction' saying that AAC is not an open format. Actually it is."

How is it an open format beside the you saying it is?

"And a damn good one if you're looking at lossy compression."

Sure. Thompson also say its MP3Pro is the best sounding codec, so does MS say of its WMA, Real with RA, Vorbis with OGG, etc. What most of you people do like realize is discussing best compression codec is like discussing religion or politics. It is completely subjective. For some 128kbps AAC is fine but for some it needs to be 320, or FLAC, or AIFF, or CD orgiinal, or even vinyl. And ask youself again, had Apple gone with MP3Pro or another codec, would you be supporting AAC and b**** that Apple did not choose an 'open' standard?

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01/20, 10:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Sure

""AAC does support multi chanels such as 5.1 audio.""

"Sure, but where is the material."

Even if you had a cd/DVD-A with the material, where is the hardware? And don't tell me iPod.

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01/20, 11:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: again

"What, like make iPod WMA compatible?"

I don't see anyone from Apple saying that they have a huge consumer market that wants WMA on their iPods. In fact I only see it on forums like this from people who chose WMA and fear that they chose wrong. What this article said was that MM, a WMA provider, has gotten lots of questions as to why they don't work with the iPod. As has been said before, most people couldn't care less about the actual format of the music, and will take their money to the people who can provide music for their devices.

"Where's the AAC support for mathematically lossless compression and multichannel?"

AAC supports multi-channel. In fact I heard some multichannel Linkin Park at WWDC 2003 and it was in AAC. As for mathematically lossless, if you can't get that at 320kbps, then there are other codecs that are truly lossless (like FLAC) and will likely give you no worse than the 4:1 compression ratio that 320 kbps gives you for 44.1/Stereo/16-bit audio.

What most lossless obsessives forget is that these codecs are for COMPRESSION of audio which lends itself MUCH more to a lossy style than a lossless style, thus for us mere mortals that aren't going to spend $10K on a stereo system we don't particularly care about the difference between 128 AAC, 128 WMA, 192 MP3 and the original source file because we have the more practical concern of how much space this is taking on our hard disk.

If Apple had gone with some other codec it would have been really out of place with the rest of it's strategy - after all, all of Quicktime 6 is based on the MPEG-4 standard, not using MPEG-4 audio would have been really strange. But I think that most of us prefer AAC because it 1) doesn't come from Microsoft and 2) is a component of MPEG-4 - an industry standard.

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01/21, 12:12am | report spam | close Reply |
More about AAC

Here is some info from Apple Website: MPEG-4 Audio -AAC:

"When compared side-by-side, AAC proves itself worthy of replacing MP3 as the new Internet audio standard. Take a look at these AAC advantages over MP3:

Improved compression provides higher-quality results with smaller file sizes

Support for multichannel audio, providing up to 48 full frequency channels

Higher resolution audio, yielding sampling rates up to 96 kHz

Improved decoding efficiency, requiring less processing power for decode.

he Data Speaks for Itself
In numerous comparison tests, AAC comes out on top. Check out these impressive results:

AAC compressed audio at 128 kbps (stereo) has been judged by expert listeners to be �indistinguishable� from the original uncompressed audio source.*

AAC compressed audio at 96 kbps generally exceeded the quality of MP3 compressed audio at 128 kbps. AAC at 128 kbps provides significantly superior performance than does MP3 at 128 kbps.*

AAC was the only Internet audio codec evaluated in the range �Excellent� at 64 kbps for all of the audio items tested in EBU listening tests.*

* Information provided by Dolby Labs.
"

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re: guess which one . . .

"in the drawer is unused . . . ?"

My thoughts exactly . . . !!!

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01/21, 01:42am | report spam | close Reply |
No s***

"I don't see anyone from Apple saying that they have a huge consumer market that wants WMA on their iPods"

No s*** Sherlock. Even if iPod leads the market at 75% market share, do you expect them to say "Yes, Apple is the best and we give up?" iPodlounge.com is probably the #1 gathering place of iPod users, Mac or Windows. In that site/forum, you see and hear plenty of demands, from iPod owners, for WMA on iPod.

" In fact I heard some multichannel Linkin Park at WWDC 2003 and it was in AAC."

Sure, we also saw Pixlet demonstrated but that does not mean it's available. Where's the commercial material?

As for lossless compression, there is clearly a demand for it as people are doing it. Again, a feature that is in demand but AAC does not support.

Then, however, you change it to a size argument (as opposed to what some argue it is a superior format which I retort with that it is completely subjective to each individual). Well, 128 kbps is the same in any codec. WMA, AAC, Ogg, etc all beat MP3 at low bit rates. No advantage to either WMA or AAC.

As for standard based, well both WMV and DivX are MPEG-4 based. Are you supporting those codecs as well? And where is Pixlet?

All I can say is, would you support AAC had MS chose that? Would you support MP3Pro or WMA-like codec had Apple gone with those codecs?

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01/21, 05:55am | report spam | close Reply |
Free AAC encoding etc.

I'd just like to point out http://audiocoding.com/

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01/21, 12:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ha

I would like to point out you are a moron. I could also point out OpenAAC and others but they do not work within iTunes, do they? Furthermore, these sites further highlight the fact that the AAC as you know it is not open.

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01/21, 01:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
The big lie..

Here's this from the article:

"Microsoft's Fester insists that the Apple/H-P deal will further confuse consumers. "It's like buying a CD from Amazon.com, but Amazon is the only store where you can buy CDs, and you can only play it on an Amazon-branded CD player," Fester says. "That's limiting in choice.""

Do most PC people not realize that iTunes AAC files are easily converted to AIFF (for normal CDs) or MP3 with little or no real loss in quality and can then be played on virtually ANY music device? It's amazing that USA Today printed that big M$ lie. Of course that's the M$ strategy: lie, promise and ultimately confuse the customer in order to sell more crappy units...

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01/21, 05:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
The lie

I believe most of the people at the consumer level understand this for one, and for two, they don't read USA Today to get their tech news.

Most people IMHO who are going to buy an MP3 device, will investigate what it can basically do and not do, so the M$ lie will not prevail, as the majority of consumers have spoken, and they are saying iPod is the standard to compare all players that come in the future. If this is true, and I firmly believe it to be, then anything M$ or their machine try to pass off as the truth will backfire on them.

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01/21, 09:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hi

1999 called. They want M$ back. It was once biting and sarcastic but using it now is just lame.

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The "new battle" between Apple and MIcrosoft

updated 04:05 pm EST, Tue January 20, 2004

MS vs. Apple battle

Related Articles

Recent Articles

woo!

wma

WMA

I feel nausious

4 million WMA players

The big problem...

4 mil? How many used?

4 million

WMA?

Apple Rules...

fuuny thing is

/*NoMusicFromMicrosoft*/

HP and Apple

who the bleep?

Once again

wma

MS

a*******!

!= || ==

pepsi

re:Anal Entries

Dentist

WMA devices: misleading

CORRECTION

Apple Records, er um ....

No...

WMA Devices

no one said

Multichanel

My policy

Who cares

apple corp

did you catch Carly's ra

Who knows?!?!

stuff

there about to be�

2 MP3 players

AAC = Open, AAC+DRM not

I don't care which

iPod vs everything else

Steve vs. Bill

Sure

WMA Support

Again

Re: Sure

re: again

More about AAC

re: guess which one . . .

No s***

Free AAC encoding etc.

Ha

The big lie..

The lie

Hi

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