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Forbes: Macs in science; CNET looks at "true cost"

updated 01:20 pm EST, Mon January 12, 2004

Forbes: Macs in science

Forbes reports that the Mac, which "has long sat on the desktops of many molecular biologists, is now , the study of how many genes work together within organisms... Botstein outfitted the center almost soup to nuts with Apple computers and servers, which are used for everything from desktop applications to comparing lengths of genetic code....he says he has also cut down on the cost of maintaining his number-crunching machines."

Meanwhile, CNET News.com talks about the "marketing message" and "true cost" behind Apple's 1,000 node G5 supercomputer: "itt cost $5.2 million to buy the Virginia Tech gear, but that figure doesn't include what the school says were "hundreds of volunteered hours of Virginia Tech faculty, staff and students to help set up the 19.25 tons of computers, routers and other equipment."

by MacNN Staff

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01/12, 01:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
So what?

No one ever factors in the Total Cost of Deployment in their harware purchase.. that's because it's a hardware purchase.. see where I'm going with this?

If they want the TCO, then they can get that by adding in the man hours, but I know for a fact that teachers and students were lining up for a chance to work on Big Mac.. So, free (happy) labor and 5.2 million for the hardware..

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01/12, 01:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
True Cost

Ok... so its more than $5.2 million... the next highest supercomputer is ASCI, at Los Alamos... worth $200 million... does this CNET person think that the 3 or 4 weeks of volunteer hours is worth $196 million?

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01/12, 01:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
$5.2M for Macs ONLY

The 5.2 million dollar cost has been advertised as being for the computers and high-speed networking cards ONLY!

NEVER has the complete cost of the installation been factored in, which I believe included a new building, racks cables, air conditioning, etc.. And, yes, labor.

C|Net is the sour grapes network. They'll put a negative spin on ANY sort of Macintosh news if they can. Otherwise they won't mention it.

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01/12, 01:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Why is it

that every time anyone announces something good about macs, a million other people jump up and say NO! THATS NOT TRUE! THEY FUDGED THE NUMBERS! its really starting to get sickening

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01/12, 01:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ridiculous

There isn't even an author listed or anyway to send comments to cnet. Very questionable.

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01/12, 01:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
the Nice thing...

... about macs is people who use them LIKE working with them. it's not hard to get vollenteers to set up Mac labs - my brother and I usually need only call people to have 10 hands for setting up large (50+) systems. And they do it just to enjoy playing with the equipment and setting it up.

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01/12, 01:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
The author is....

...none other than Paul Thurott. This story is three days old. Why does anyone pay attention to this loser? he's just as bad as Dvorak, Enderle, and every other MS lackey in the press these days.

The guys at VT who built the Big Mac are a heck of a lot more credible than this jerk.

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01/12, 01:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
Payola booster

Absolutely incredible "logic." The cost that the University incurred was $5.2 million. That's just PR, because they "had a lot of volunteers." And of course, in the real world, a corporate customer would be overjoyed to spend kajillions on consultants and other hangers-on. If that's actually true, and not just some leech on corporate consultant welfare, then corporations need their heads examined.

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01/12, 01:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
That's what grad student

are for. Cheap, nearly free, labor.

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01/12, 02:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
Give them what they want

Ok...Apple and Virginia should go ahead and include all those other numbers INCLUDING the cost of the new building, it still would cost less than the 200 Million that the next fastest computer would cost. Heck...it would cost less than the next 3 slower computers.

Do you really think the 200 Million dollar number on the next computer up included all of the hours, infrastructure, and building costs? I seriously doubt it.

And so what if it is being used for Education. From what I've seen the educational institutions put far more load on their computer systems than most major corporations.

THIS GUY NEEDS TO STOP WRITING!

This also proves that all you need is an internet connection to call yourself an analyst, or editor, or whatever. I am now the crown prince of Cincinnati.

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01/12, 02:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
CNET knows...

for a fact that Supercomps 1 and 2 were put together by oompa-loompas and thus would not be factored into the cost.

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01/12, 02:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ok, factor in the hours

Instead of 'hundreds of hours' let us just say it was an even thousand.

And let's pay the volunteers %40 per hour.

Ok, add 50 grand to the cost.

c/net isn't even pretending to be anything more than ms nipple baby.

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01/12, 02:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Grad Students...

"are for. Cheap, nearly free, labor. "

I am a grad student and I couldn't agree more! lol.

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01/12, 02:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
This should make CIOs....

...stand to attention. Yeah, some of the reason why there were low labor costs is because of slav^H^H^H^Hgrad student labor, but there is another aspect of this:

Most Mac-users I know in IT are forced to work in Windows anvironments at work, and I'll bet many of them would accept lower pay to work with Macs instead. (I know I would, and I know a handful of other Mac-preferring IT types who say the same thing.)

So it's not just that Macs need less day-to-day attention than peecees, but it's likely that the IT staff could be paid a bit less, too.

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01/12, 02:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
maybe

" that every time anyone announces something good about macs, a million other people jump up and say NO! THATS NOT TRUE! THEY FUDGED THE NUMBERS! its really starting to get sickening "

Maybe its because the million other people are right. Maybe because apple is hated by so many more people who are more enlightened than you are. Maybe its just because apple sucks.

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01/12, 02:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Contact the author

This idiot's email address is:
thurrott@winnetmag.com
I suggest you contact him and remind him what an idiot he is. I'm sure we wont be the first to clue him in.
BTW, he's a true blue MS croney.

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01/12, 02:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
what next?

Will CNET complain that Virginia Tech used discount coupons to purchase pizza for the volunteers, and thus costs are yet again underestimated by hundreds of $2.00 off coupons for pepperoni pizzas?

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01/12, 02:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
The more they question

the numbers and how Apple is doing, the more you know Apple is doing just the right thing. You don't piss someone off in the industry by doing the WRONG thing. If Apple screwed up, they would quietly laugh...

The truth is, these country bumpkins (no offense to any hicks in the audience.) don't know their asses from their elbows.

I would like to see a #1 fastest supercomputer cluster with G5's
once they are optimized...or bumped. That would be great.

I wonder how much that would cost?

Probably, with pizza's and grad students factored in along with
the new building...

25 to 30 million?

Maybe less, maybe a little more, who really cares?
Oh, wait... Windoze users who need to get a clue.
WIndows users = plain and ignorant people.

Hey! Hit CTRL-ALT-DEL lately?

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01/12, 02:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
One more thing...

Oh yes, and if you go to the site map of cnet's main web site, the link under "Questions? Comments? Tell Us!" will take you to:

"Not Found

The requested URL /4002-8-5081174.html was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."

CNET - Windows all the way, I betcha. I used to own stock in cnet before I felt their anti-mac bias. Glad I bailed out.

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01/12, 03:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
New building?

What new building? The cluster was installed in existing space in the AISB's machine room.

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01/12, 03:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Does CNET

Do any research? Or the AUTHOR?
What ever happend to integrety? and SOURCES?
If that f*** wants to put down Virginia Polytech's Super Cluster,
then why the h*** doesn't he put up or shut up?

Get the facts you moron, and do it before you write anything.
Oh, and don't forget to site your sources. DIPSHIT.

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01/12, 03:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Contact

Virginia Polytech and ask them to look into this!

http://computing.vt.edu/research_computing/terascale/

Here are some e-mails, so if you bring this to their attention, maybe something will get done. They are after-all big stakeholders in this new argument, and should be contacted. Don't be obnoxious though, just ask them to look into it.

If you know for a fact who wrote the article, maybe give their contact information, so Virginia Tech can contact the author and get all this straightened out.

I'd like to see the whole cost, just to shut this guy and all the nay sayers up.

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01/12, 03:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
why?

http://www.eng.vt.edu/tcf/faq.html

Have some respect! Don't we love to see the "System X" ranks #3 in the World? I bet those C|Net writers were either don't care or jealous.

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01/12, 03:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
Total Cost?

The point here is simple - it isn't really about cost. Now Apple have made available the clustering software and anyone - ANYONE - can have their own super computer. Of course any Mac is a SUPER computer.

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01/12, 03:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
My letter to CNET

Here is a copy of my email to CNET, if anyone is interested.

To:send-letters-to-news@cnet.com

CNET once again has blatantly let its anti-Mac bias show through, loud and clear. To publish such a commentary full of such wild conclusions and out-of-touch conjecture tells your viewers something. It says that CNET wouldn't recognize an elegant, cost-effective solution to a technical problem if it came up and bit them on their collective butt. You know, as a news organization, you are what you publish. And to publish Mr. Thurrott's opinions tends to make one think that those opinions are the same or similar to your own, especially considering the number of articles and commentaries I have seen coming from CNET whose sole purpose seems to be to discredit Apple and the Macintosh.

Let me point out an example in his commentary that reveal Mr. Thurrott's (and by association, CNET as well) biased thought processes. He implies in his opening paragraph that Apple's marketing is responsible for the conclusion that supercomputing technology gets its biggest bang for the buck when using Mac clusters. He points out that the $5.2 million advertised price for Va Tech's 3rd fastest supercomputer in the world did not include hundreds of volunteer hours by faculty and grad students, used to help assemble the hardware. OK, so does that mean that when we factor in this hidden cost that the real cost is now near the $200 million it cost to build the 2nd fastest supercomputer? Wait a big fat minute here. Even 10,000 hours at $50/hr would only add $500,000 to the cost of this system. So now the total would be $5.7 million. That's a heck of a lot of bang for the buck considering the cost of the 2nd ($200 million plus) and even 4th fastest supercomputer on the planet. But Mr. Thurrott wouldn't agree. Because it was made with Macs, and he makes his living writing about Microsoft's products. He goes on to say that the Va Tech computer "may be a wonderful educational project" but commercial supercomputer customers would rather pay specialists to put together systems by other manufacturers. Right. Sure they would. Any company can see that $6 million for a 10 teraflop Mac machine is not a good a deal as $60 million for a 9 tereflop Wintel/Linux machine.

Mr. Thurrott's logic is in serious question here, as is CNET's for publishing it.

-Richard

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01/12, 03:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
LOOKY HERE

"Hassan Aref, Dean of Engineering: "We're going to document how we did this from start to finish and if you want to build one we'll send them a kit and tell them how to do it."

Supercomputers, like PCs, become old in technology terms within about 3 to 5 years. But whereas you or I would go to a shop and buy one, Virginia tech has to start again from scratch. That's why they are building a new multi million dollar facility opening in 2006 for the next generation of Supercomputer. "

2006 : Look for the FASTEST Apple based Super Cluster in the WORLD!

You read it here first.
http://www.bbcworld.com/content/clickonline_archive_40_2003.asp?pageid=666&co_pageid=3

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01/12, 03:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
I think I'm going to

start writing about the pitfalls of Windows, but where to begin? There is just so much material out there.

Give me some solid sources to site and I'll put together a discertation of a lifetime, and I'll be sure to use spell check so I don't give them anything to pick apart.

:O)

POST THEM HERE IN THIS THREAD.

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01/12, 04:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
ReL LOOKY HERE

Actually, they can swap out a few machines at a time as they get the budget. As the XServes increase in speed, all they need to do is get a rack and start fillin' it. Sell an old dual-2G G5 off and put it towards a new dual-3G G5 XServe compute node when they become available. This is a fantastic setup. Thurrott's an idiot for even attempting to discredit it. Then again, he's an idiot any time he mentions Apple or Microsoft.

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01/12, 05:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
CNET

I sent feedback to CNET via the link and received a reply from Karen Southwick, the editor of that section. I offered a far more polite version of the spewing I've read from other posters in this thread, and not surprisingly received a reply. Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned.

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Response from CNET...

I e-mailed Michael Kanellos, Department Editor, Enterprise Computing and Personal Technology for CNET requesting the author's name and why the negative spin. Here's his reponse:

"No. you're missing the point. These cluster systems often have exaggeragedly low price points because of stuff like this (you can't compare the Apple system to earth simulator or other custom supercompters. They perform diff. functions-hence the price point is way out of whack). Dell has clusters that cost about the same. 2000 at univ of buffalo, etc. apple was chosen for this just because the idea came up now."

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01/12, 05:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: response c***|NET

"No."?
Why not?

"You're missing the point. These cluster systems often have exaggeradedly low price points because of STUFF like this:

You cannot compare Apple systems to earth simulator or other custom supercomputers. They perform different? functions hence the price point is way out of whack.) Dell has clusters that cost about the same???? 2000 at the U. of Buffalo, etc. Apple was chosen this just because the IDEA came up?????".

You have got to be kidding me!
This is a JOKE right?

Where is the U. of Buffalo with what 2000 dells on the list????
Let me check.. BRB.

Here it is folks, just like it was ordered up!

QUOTE FOLLOWS:

"The supercomputer, a type of hardware seemingly far removed from the desktops, laptops and servers that Dell is better known for, was designed to support bioinformatics research at the university, the company said in a statement.

Dell said he doesn't view the supercomputing clusters -- which consist of Intel-based Dell PowerEdge servers -- as being much different from his company's other products. Dell told Computerworld in an interview last month that "all technology over time commoditizes at its simplest level," adding that his company's supercomputer clusters are based on industry standard servers.

Reza Rooholamini, Dell's director of operating systems and clusters, said the day will come when a national laboratory or university seeking to acquire a supercomputer will be able to order one from the company's Web site, just as users today can order less complex systems.

Rooholamini conceded that a supercomputer "is more complex from an ordering standpoint than a notebook." But, he said, "it basically uses the same piece parts as our servers. We are just taking these [server] parts and building blocks and connecting them into a supercomputer.

"Once the customer base is comfortable, they can start ordering off the Web," he said.

Michael Dell made it clear that he wants his company to compete in the supercomputer market, the total value of which Rooholamini estimated at "close to $13 billion by 2005, of which $5 billion to $6 billion will be cluster computing."

The University at Buffalo cluster will be used by Jeffrey Skolnick, director of the Buffalo Center of Excellence in Bioinformatics, and his team to conduct research that could eventually lead to development of drugs used to combat cancer, Alzheimer's disease and AIDS.

The Buffalo cluster operates at roughly 5.7 trillion floating-point operations per second (TFLOPS) , according to Rooholamini, and it includes more than 16TB of storage.

Los Alamos National Laboratory, in Los Alamos, N.M., is in the process of bringing the country's largest supercomputer online. That hardware, based on Compaq Co

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01/12, 05:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: response from CNET

"No. you're missing the point. These cluster systems often have exaggeragedly low price points because of stuff like this (you can't compare the Apple system to earth simulator or other custom supercompters. They perform diff. functions-hence the price point is way out of whack). Dell has clusters that cost about the same. 2000 at univ of buffalo, etc. apple was chosen for this just because the idea came up now."

Maybe I'm the idiot here, but what does he mean by "you can't compare them because they perform different functions". Don't they perform different functions based mostly on the software they are running?

BTW, once you get passed the equipment costs, and ignoring for the time being the differences in overhead of the support staffs, isn't generally every other expense pretty much the same regardless of what platform you choose? Unless one platform is much harder to set up/configure (*cough*, Dell, *cough*), the other hardware, network topology, etc, are generally the same.

Of course you could argue that Mac's are easier to maintain/keep running, reducing the number of support staff, they're easier to configure out of the box, run cooler then other processors, thus reducing cooling costs, etc. But that would be just throwing more facts on the flame.

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01/12, 06:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Dell supercluster

What was the cost of that supercluster?

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01/12, 06:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple has what 27

IT people? Total?

I guess it is easier to support Macs.
:O)

How many IT people does DELL have? Univesity of Buffalo pay DELL to support the supercluster? What is their electric bill compared to University of Virginia?

I think the answers are very clear to those of us that have half-a-brain.

This is amusing, to the point of nausia.

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01/12, 06:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
Conspiracy fun

I hate to burst your collective bubbles, but I didn't write this story, and have never written anything for CNET.

Paul Thurrott

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01/12, 06:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
zealots

While I agree with some of the feedback, you can't argue with the fact that Big Mac has had many volunteer hours that would cost much more in a corporate setting.

Can anyone argue with this?

>

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01/12, 06:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
The email address

to send your comments to Cnet's [f]utility computing section is:

getuptospeed@cnet.com

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01/12, 06:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: zealots and re: consp

It took 3 months and the man hours added in a "commercial" setting would have only added about half a million dollars.

Yeah, that makes us zealots, you fuckwad.

Oh and Thurrott, you p****, how can you sit? I mean after letting yourself take it in the a** so many times from Bill Gates? You must like it. Fool.

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01/12, 06:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Academic v. Commercial

Hey Thurrott:

Do some basic research ok? The argument posed as stated below is:

"So the Apple project at Virginia Tech may be a wonderful educational project, but commercial customers who have less interest in experimentation are more likely to pay specialists at Linux Networx, RLX Technologies, IBM, Sun Microsystems, Dell or Hewlett-Packard to plan the plumbing, package the software and plug in the cables. And those companies aren't going to rely on Macs."

But what about the University of Buffalo (DELL) supercluster?
They are being relied on to do research for the following very important topics, unless you think different.

"The University at Buffalo cluster will be used by Jeffrey Skolnick, director of the Buffalo Center of Excellence in Bioinformatics, and his team to conduct research that could eventually lead to development of drugs used to combat cancer, Alzheimer's disease and AIDS. "

I guess only PCs are good enough to be counted by your low standards.

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01/12, 06:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
The Apocalypse Nears ...

Wintel people are screaming at Mac people about not disclosing total cost of ownership. Even when they know it will (as always) kick their Wintel asses.

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01/12, 06:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re:Zealots

Damn, You are almost as intelligent as the person who wrote this article....No one's arguing that it wouldn't have cost more. However, if you could actually read(which apparently you can't), I believe several people on this thread have already done the math for paying the volunteers as opposed to free help and the numbers still don't come close to the cost of the next highest and next lowest supercomputer....now go take your stupid "zealot" comments elsewhere....when you learn how to actually debate something intelligently(while actually reading the thread upon which you have posted), then come on back...

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01/12, 07:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
C|net replied to me

and they said the following when I asked who the author was. "It's not an article. It's a commentary, which means it's editorial and reflects CNET's views. That's why it's unsigned."

I think they should have done some basic research, before putting out this ill-informed commentary.

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01/12, 07:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
C|net thinks this?

How can they even pretend to be associated with the word NEWS?

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01/12, 08:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Go ahead

No really...go ahead, add all those extra costs you want, it still will not even come close to the cost of the next highest computer, heck it won't even come close to the cost of the 5 computers under it.

The Big Mac took 3 weeks to set up and it was done by volunteers. And it is running Mac OS X Jaguar.

Imagine now if Panther was running on it.

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01/12, 08:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
Big Mac

Took 13 weeks from start to finish, but even at that, it makes nye a dent in the computers below it on the list for at least the next 5 slots. Did anyone watch the video on Apple's site?

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01/12, 08:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
Want to laugh?

http://www.winsupersite.com/paul/

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01/12, 08:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Big Mac

According to the video on Apple's website it took 3 weeks from the time the computers arrived until it was opperational.

The other time was spend mostly adding HVAC units to climate control the room. And for wiring and such...but still, 13 weeks complete start to finish is pretty impressive.

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01/12, 08:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
LONGHORN

Got this off of Thurrott's web super site, super dooper!
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/lh4029-03.jpg

This is an actual screen shot! Wow, and there are more just as good as this one! OMG, this guy is a real keeper!

He even has Longhorn tips and tricks! for who???????????
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/longhorn_4051_tips.asp

See all the glorious Longhorn and then some information here:
http://www.winsupersite.com/

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01/12, 08:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Longhorn due in 2005

Here is what Paul Thorrotten had to say,

"Q: But Mac OS X already has a lot of these features. What's the big deal?

A: Apple has implemented some basic desktop composition features in Mac OS X "Panther." But the basic problem with Mac OS X isn't going away: It's a classic desktop operating system that doesn't offer anything in the way of usability advancements over previous desktop operating systems. Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to anything in Mac OS X. In the future, Longhorn will further distance Windows from OS X. From a graphical standpoint, there won't be any comparison. As Microsoft revealed at the PDC 2003 conference, Longhorn is far more impressive technically than Panther. "

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01/12, 08:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
Longhorn cntd.

Uhm... Apple is on version 10.3 of OS X and where exactly is the commercial version of LONGHORN? It's vaporware, but far more advanced than Panther.

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01/12, 10:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
E T

Enderle and Thurrott go together like E coli and c*** and this is the best example of journalisitc doo doo I have ever seen. What an embarrassment for CNET to not only post, but to stand by, this claptrap. The people who hate Apple are most interesting! The dingbat some posts above ranting so inarticulately (hhmmm... PC user?) is, I guess, a good example of what Apple is up against in the real world. Although he came over as a 13 year old (zits to boot) he is probably an IT guy with Microsoft accreditation, worships pix of Billie before going to bed and hence has all the requisites for some stimulating dreams-- and bunch of 'wet' ideas. Decerebrate vulgarities!

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01/12, 10:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
What's task-based

Today, Windows XP and its task-based interface are far superior to anything in Mac OS X.

What does MS consider a 'task-based' interface? I mean, the apps under XP are the same under 98. The only thing in XP he could be talking about are all the wonderful 'wizards' to set up parts of the OS, but I don't consider those 'task-based', but more 'step-by-step' things (annoyingly so).

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01/12, 10:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
task-based

Sounds more like lag-based... as I can't stand them.

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01/12, 11:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
win is So super

"Anyone who's used Longhorn build 4051 for any amount of time will likely have noticed a massive memory leak in explorer.exe: Just open task manager, and you can watch explorer.exe chew up available RAM in real time." winsupersite.com

beta version or not, this is a hoot....task based my a**. nice.

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01/13, 12:04am | report spam | close Reply |
Funk this a******...

I hate people who don't know what the f*** they're talking about. Especially this n*** f*** from C/net. I want him dead! I want to burn down his house. I want to go in the middle of the night and piss on his ashes.

Damn windoz moron and their f*** up little toy computers.

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01/13, 12:28am | report spam | close Reply |
re: funk etc...

First: Take the green pill, or red one, or blue one, whatever color your pill is, take it.
Second: Take another.
Third: If you don't take any pills for anything like anger etc... disregard the First and Second steps, but if you did, go the the ER and get that stuff pumped out of your stomach... then proceed to step Four:

Four: Breath in and out, and relax.

Wow.

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01/13, 12:29am | report spam | close Reply |
RABID

YOU MACINTAWSSCH FANATICXS ARE CRAZY RABID DOGS FROTHING AT THE MOUTH. no seriously, that's cool Ok. man i'd be afraid of the world if Apple had 50% marketshare. jeez.

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01/13, 12:31am | report spam | close Reply |
educated dialogue

and debate might help further your cause, not anger and bile my children.

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01/13, 12:39am | report spam | close Reply |
re: debate

This isn't a debate forum, it is a commentary forum and thusly oppinions of those herin.

Educated Dialogue? If you want that, we can provide a forum just for that, all we would require is an intelligent adviscary from the Windows side. We really don't have that kind of time to wait, so I guess we'll continue with our little rants here and there.

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01/13, 02:16am | report spam | close Reply |
Mac nuts

Everyone who's even seen screenshots of Longhorn know its soooo much better than OS X.3, X.4, or anything Apple could hope to put out. And with two more years to go before release, they still have a lot of time to steal any idea that comes out on the Mac that might even be close to being useful.

Oh, and don't expect great performance from Longhorn, they still won't throw out DOS app support. God, and people say Mac users are cheap. There's still apparently a large group of Windows users who still use DOS apps!!!!!

And that task-based stuff is great! Its so much easier to click on a "Print Pictures" link under the "What do you want to do" heading then to go to the complicated menu bar and choose "Print Pictures" from there. Man, how you all can still be using menus these days is beyond me.

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01/13, 09:42am | report spam | close Reply |
Let's add it up..

2000 man hours @ $200/hour = $400,000
(Yes, I know these numbers are probably high, but I wanted to show beyond a doubt).

So sorry, we'll amend the figure to $5.6 million.. so scandalous!

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01/13, 11:59am | report spam | close Reply |
oh and ThurROTt

You were wrong about WMA support for HiPod.
You saw it here first in this thread on this day.
Butthead.

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01/15, 09:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Good O'Reilly response

I good repsonse to the lame c|net commentary in developer weblog "A grain of salt with your c|net, Apple still shines." by Alan Graham

You can read it here: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4194

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01/19, 01:42am | report spam | close Reply |
Haliburton

I am sorry, did the author of this c/net article mention that Haliburton, ? was under contract to provide the labor for VT?

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Forbes: Macs in science; CNET looks at "true cost"

updated 01:20 pm EST, Mon January 12, 2004

Forbes: Macs in science

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So what?

True Cost

$5.2M for Macs ONLY

Why is it

Ridiculous

the Nice thing...

The author is....

Payola booster

That's what grad student

Give them what they want

CNET knows...

Ok, factor in the hours

Re: Grad Students...

This should make CIOs....

maybe

Contact the author

what next?

The more they question

One more thing...

New building?

Does CNET

Contact

why?

Total Cost?

My letter to CNET

LOOKY HERE

I think I'm going to

ReL LOOKY HERE

CNET

Response from CNET...

re: response c***|NET

Re: response from CNET

Dell supercluster

Apple has what 27

Conspiracy fun

zealots

The email address

re: zealots and re: consp

Academic v. Commercial

The Apocalypse Nears ...

Re:Zealots

C|net replied to me

C|net thinks this?

Go ahead

Big Mac

Want to laugh?

re: Big Mac

LONGHORN

Longhorn due in 2005

Longhorn cntd.

E T

What's task-based

task-based

win is So super

Funk this a******...

re: funk etc...

RABID

educated dialogue

re: debate

Mac nuts

Let's add it up..

oh and ThurROTt

Good O'Reilly response

Haliburton

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