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Columnist highlights Mac security flaw

updated 07:10 pm EST, Thu December 11, 2003

Columnist on Mac security

PC Magazine columnist Lance Ulanoff has published an article on the of the Mac platform. "I know this is wrong, but in one respect I was happy to learn earlier this month about the discovery of a significant security hole in the Jaguar and Panther versions of the Apple operating system," says Ulanoff. Mr. Ulanoff says he was tired of the "Mac don't get attacked by viruses and hackers" sentiment of "Mac nuts." The security hole, as described by Carrel.org: "A series of seemingly innocuous default settings can cause an affected Mac OS X machine to trust a malicious machine on a network for user, group, and volume mounting settings."

by MacNN Staff

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12/11, 07:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
LOSER

¡Qué Lastima!

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12/11, 07:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
groan...

"Mr. Ulanoff says he was tired of the 'Mac don't get attacked by viruses and hackers' sentiment of 'Mac nuts.'"

just because he was "tired" of the talk doesn't make it any less true. maybe if microsoft wasn't an 800-lb. gorilla, willing to piss off every hacker and such in the community while hiding behind a screen-door security system, maybe they wouldn't attack them so much.

but it is, Mr. Ulanoff, so they do.

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12/11, 07:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ridiculous

He doesn't back up his assertions. By citing one security issue, he "proves" that Mac OS X is just as insecure as Windows. Countless experts have debunked this assertion. There are even challenges to "hack" Darwin (the core of the commercial OS). Everyone should take this article with a grain of salt because it's based primarily on opinion, not fact.

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12/11, 07:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
Brain dead

What a joke! The fact that he can actually get worked up over someone *identifying* a vulnerability on OS X tells it all. I'd like for him to spill the beans on when someone actually was successful in spreading a damaging virus on a Mac. How many years has it been?

The too-small-target argument is hogwash, too. How many millions of machines does a target make? Of course, he also ignores the argument that, in theory, Mac zealots would make especially juicy targets because we so boastful about how difficult it is to hack our machines. He forgot about that angle, I guess.

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12/11, 07:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Check MacObserver

Bryan Chaffin over at MacObserver does a nice job of taking this column apart (http://www.macobserver.com/columns/thebackpage/2003/20031211.shtml). It's a fun read.

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12/11, 07:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Where's the beef?

The writer makes big assertions yet doesn't offer any emirical evidence. It's kind of like me stating that the US never landed on moon. Here's the proof - www.lunaranomalies.com
But at least the URL I provides actually loads.
Carl Sagan said it best...
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

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12/11, 08:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
Pointless & misleading

Why do so many PC-users have a chip on their shoulder when it comes Windows and security problems? Why are they so eager to claim that Macs would be almost as bad if they had as great a market share as Windows? Are they trying to rationalize away having made the wrong decision? Let's face it, Mr. Ulanoff hasn't made very good arguments. While it is of course true that no modern operating system is 100% secure, some or more secure than others, and OS X, even with its smaller user-base, is obviously more secure than Windows. Why, even Microsoft admits that Windows has security problems. Some of Windows' code is so flawed that, according to one Microsoft high-level executive (Jim Alchin) it cannot be safely disclosed!

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12/11, 08:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
Reply says it all

http://macobserver.com/columns/thebackpage/2003/20031211.shtml

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12/11, 09:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Plugged Holes?

Sheesh, what a whiny article!

He fails to mention that once OS X security holes were discovered, how quickly such holes were plugged by Apple!

It takes Microsoft months (if ever) to plug security holes. Or they simply tell their users that it's all their fault. That's what I call customer care.. or... Customers? Who cares! We've got plenty more that'll never even notice!

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12/11, 09:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Trolling for Hits

This clown dragged out every anti-Mac slur he could find in an obvious attempt to drum up some hits.

Good try, t***!

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12/11, 09:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
UH

" Why do so many PC-users have a chip on their shoulder when it comes Windows and security problems? "

No, no chip at all. I doubt you will find PC users who defend Microsoft's security. However, it is Mac users who have a chip. Do you notice whenever someone criticizes Apple (as if Apple is infallible!), it soon degenerates into "PeeCee weenie" or a MS/Intel/Dell vs Apple or a TCO or "mhz myth" when the rest of the world is on ghz, etc?

First, Apple is not infallible. Second, who cares what one PC user says? Let it go people.

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12/11, 09:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
Security

Having to keep up with security on Mac and Windows - I can clearly and emphatically state that Windows sucks. I am not talking just security.

While it is true that Winodws has a much much greater market share - on server and home user systems - than Apple has, this does not mean that Windows is more secure or that Apple is less secure. Of course they use the Windows market share as a reason to buy MORE WINDOWS systems. They can not have it both ways.

Windows is BOTH wide spread and widely exploitable. I would imagine we will see man more security patches in the near and distant future.

Apple uses mostly open source code for its system (save the obvious like QuickTime, Quartz, Aqua...) yet the kernal can be tested and is tested - much like Linux or any other open source is tested. It is tested buy people who know what they are doing and want the best for themselves and their project. Microsoft is a great marketing and FUD spreading company but they do not have a clue as to who to build good systems. They barely build half a system as is, since they are only responsible for the OS.

In any event saying that because Mac OS X has some security vulerabilities and because Windows has a (known) horde of security vulerabilites does not mean that both are equally insecure. In fact it points to the opposite.

So if a Mercedes Benze can crash - due to driver negligence and a Fiat can crash - due to the same circumstances, which would you choose in a crash???

Sure he is tired of hearing about his system's short cummings. Growup and use a real OS.

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12/11, 09:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Sweetheart,

don't s*** your pants, Lance.

Lance Ulanoff is g**.

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12/11, 09:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: UH

Hey, stupid. The name calling and the defensiveness occur in all camps. The simple fact is that the stupid Windows users greatly outnumber the stupid Mac users, so there is a net gain in stupidity in favor of Windows heads.

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12/11, 09:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
His Email Address...

Lance_Ulanoff@ziffdavis.com

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12/11, 09:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
I have to use WINDOWS

at work, and for some stupid reason they want to use PP for all their presentations... it makes me puke. They are getting rid of their Macs. WHY!? Keynote is much better.

As for security. Windows and M$ don't even back up their own servers!!! with the patches produced.

This article was soooo wrong by such an idiot.

I love my Mac because I get to enjoy being productive, creative, and hate the PC/Windows because it constrains my creativity and the interface gives me a headache.

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12/11, 09:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
WIndows and Security

That is like saying.

Windows Users and ../user/genius/creative/empty

Windows is a virus.
Windows users are themselves infected it seems and dependent on the host organism or is that vice versa?

Who cares.
Windows sucks and sucks and sucks and sucks.

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12/11, 09:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
sure, sure

whatever you say, poopy-pants. you enjoy being creative and productive, and yet here you sit moaning on the MacNN forums. How productive and creative is that?

Spend time in the real world, loser. Then come back with a real opinion.

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12/11, 09:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
One security flaw

He gets all excited because someone found a single security flaw in Mac OS X. Ummm, how many hundreds have been found in Windows? Geez. How pathetic.

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12/11, 10:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
DHCP "hole" a non issue

This is a non issue. It is not a security hole on Mac OS X anymore than it would be anywhere else. It is how DHCP works

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12/11, 10:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
Lance's Profile:

>Lance Ulanoff is senior executive producer for PCMag.com. At
>PCMag.com, he oversees all strategic, editorial, and production >activities related to the magazine's Web site. Ulanoff spent the >last 12 years in online and print publishing of computer technology.

He was in PRINT and didn't ever use a Mac? That is very funny!
Probably sucked at it.

.

Check out his profile and photo! What a loser.

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12/11, 10:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
spyware?

hmm isn't windows a spyware?

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12/11, 10:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
"sure-sure"

I am in the "real world" assclown.

I work being creative from 8am-6pm M-F.
It is 9:00pm CST and I'm now relaxing reading my favorite web sites in the off-time.

What is a "real oppinion" anyway? One that agrees with people like you? What would a faux oppinion be?

You are the loser, you effing troll, Lance.

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12/11, 10:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Childish

Mr. Ulanoff spends a great deal of time in this playful article describing a concrete reality of a seductive obscure sect mocking the frailties of the overwhelming majority.

Reality is far more palatable for me. As Mr. Mr. Ulanoff suggests, traditional Macintosh users have been able to proudly claim the security virtues of their OS. This continues today only by a select and uneducated few. What connection to Mac OS X have to the Mac OS of the 1990s? Nothing but a token tribute to what came before. While throwing of the burden of this aging code frees Mac OS X to reach many desirable new capabilities, it does bring dangers of lowered security. We are talking Unix here.

This is article is written in the form of a whine reacting to other children. The fact that security breaches are found constantly in all operating systems, network services, and various other software categories is a fact of life. The fact that terrific attacks have not been conducted against Macintosh security holes is for one reason alone - not an attractive target.

Next time write something worth reading.

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12/11, 10:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Lance the a******

Mr. Ulanoff complaing about the Mac is just a way to divert attention from the platform with bigger security problems. If Windows users have this false sense of proportion, then we should really feel sorry for them.

Someone on slashdot said it right - Lance is on the side of the road, as his pride and joy Yugo has broken down again for the fifth time this week. He sees a Lexus whiz by and then complains that its radio volume k*** has broken off.

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12/11, 10:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hilarious

Yes, Mr. Ulanoff, I am feeling rather smug, and the simple fact that this was the best you could come up with to rub in the collective face of the Mac user only makes me feel that much more confident that I'm right.

I try to avoid bashing the Wintel platform too much--I use it at work everyday (not exclusively, thankfully), and it's possible to get work done with it. I live in the real world.

That said, you've gotta have one huge hole in your personal sense of self worth or at least a pretty significant self esteem problem to go bashing on the tiny minority for what ammounts to no reason at all, just because they're cocky with good reason. Yeah, it hurts to be wrong, but trying to prove yourself right when you just plain aren't is pathetic.

It's this simple: Yes, MacOSX has security flaws. They're discovered and patched quickly every now and then. This particular security flaw, which is apparently incontrovertable proof of what's wrong with the OS, is not only present in *ANY* DHCP enabled system, including Windows, but it can be "fixed" with a simple configuration change, and only affects people on a large internal network. Apple should get on it, and will, but it's just not a major issue.

It, nor any other OSX security hole that I know of, has not been exploited to any real effect, yet anyway.

Contrast: Come to my university (which still has a significant number of Macs, I might add). Turn on a n unpatched Windows computer connected to the network. Wait an hour. It will be infected with at least one worm. Not might, not could be, not would be if any hackers got their act together, WILL. I've seen it happen. EVERY version of Windows. Right now.

THAT is a security flaw. The sort of security flaw that can, and regularly does, bring large organizations and huge networks to their knees periodically. So far, OSX has NEVER been vulnerable to anything on that scale, and it likely never will be. Because people know exactly what makes OSX tick, unlike Windows.

Feels good to use a Mac.

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12/11, 10:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
Fixed

Wasn't the hole he was talking about fixed. Of course he forgets to mention that people find an average of 3 security flaws in Windows on a daily basis.

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12/11, 10:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
Congrats ABCNews...

...for providing Mr Ulanoff with exactly what he wanted...access to a wide audience upon which he can foist his opinion while masquerading as a legitimate news story with the express intent of drawing the ire of Macintosh users for the sole purpose of sustantiating his own paranoia.

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12/11, 11:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bring it

I invite anyone to exploit my Macintosh, either by this exploit or any other exploit imagineable. h***, I'll even open up all my ports or whatever the h*** you want me to do.

Send me a request for an IP addy and you'll have it.

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12/11, 11:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Whenever one

Loads a new program in Windows, one has to reboot.
Isn't that funny?

What if everytime you put a new CD in your car you had to restart the car...over and over again.

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12/11, 11:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
A moron

Some former Mac Zealots are just as bad as ex-Mac Zealots. Same game, different allegiance.

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12/11, 11:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
Nice try troll

"First, Apple is not infallible. Second, who cares what one PC user says? Let it go people."
Wrong...we will NOT stop thinking Apple is infallible. Compared to MS, Apple are saints...SAINTS!. Stop trying to divide us. Only through solidarity can we sustain. YOU let it go.

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12/11, 11:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
what a d***

ignore him...maybe he'll go away...

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12/11, 11:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
If Apple were to

close it's doors tomorrow what would this idiot do?

Declare victory?
I just don't get it.
I just get the job done on my Mac.

I hope he enjoys his PC, and all the PC clones like him.

a******.

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12/12, 01:04am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: childish

The fact that security breaches are found constantly in all operating systems, network services, and various other software categories is a fact of life.

Actually, breaches and holes are two different things. Windows has holes left and right, which then are generally breached (pick a worm, any worm, it breaches something in windows) . So far, there's been no report of Mac OS X security holes being breached.

Oh, and it helps that Apple tends to turn off network services by default, rather then the windows "Turn it all on because someone might want to use it" approach.

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12/12, 01:05am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Whenever

Loads a new program in Windows, one has to reboot.
Isn't that funny?

Gee, sounds like each and every Apple security patch or update.

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12/12, 01:10am | report spam | close Reply |
Security

From the article:
I was tired of the "We use Macs because they don't get attacked by viruses and hackers" refrain from Mac nuts. I generally counter with what is apparently a secret carefully hidden from Mac zealots: "That's because only a fraction of the world uses Macs. What's the point of attacking a niche market? No one will notice!"

Who cares why my Mac doesn't get hacked. The point is, it doesn't. I'd rather be safe because of obscurity than have to have the entire network down because someone read an email they weren't supposed to, or a worm got installed on an unpatched computer? I guess he'd rather feel the superiority of "Well, at least I'm using the same OS that everyone else i, so I don't feel alone..."

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12/12, 01:10am | report spam | close Reply |
Hmmm

"Stop trying to divide us. Only through solidarity can we sustain. YOU let it go. "

Ok, son, it's time to take your medicine again. Listen to the nice man in the white jacket.

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12/12, 02:58am | report spam | close Reply |
Sad Sad Sorry Man

So here's a guy who admits in the article that his computing experience is a neverending source of trouble and misery to him... And he's really really angry at all the Mac "Fanatics" who refuse to get with the program and join him in his misery and pain. It really is very sad for him.

He can see the door to change, he wants to go through it, but he can't because that would mean that up until this point in his life he's been completely wrrrr... wrrrr.... he's been completely wrrrrroorr....

Nah, he just can't say it, so it's up to the fanatic fringe to make him "right" by jumping into the pool of excrement with him.

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12/12, 03:20am | report spam | close Reply |
Pretty Pathetic

With all this "we have more security flaws because we have such a much larger user base" c*** is rediculous. One would think that a multi-Billion dollar company would be able to take into account the fact that so many people are using their Os. The logical thing to do would be to make such a widespread OS as secure as possible but apparently this is not the case. And every security flaw IS an issue, but its a matter of the scale of the issue that is to be brought into question. This little "flaw", relatively speaking, WAS a non issue because you would not be likely to connect to a server you dont trust unless soenone has a evil server set-up at your neighborhood starbucks AND knows about tis security flaw. NOT LIKELY. MS on teh other hand, you connect to ANY network an dyour assed out.

-macjedi-

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12/12, 03:21am | report spam | close Reply |
Proud

The article fails to go into the real reasons behind Windows hackers. Windows is an evil corpoation; Apple is not so.

Education through www.microsuck.com should be an established and recommended practice.

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12/12, 03:42am | report spam | close Reply |
What I don't understand

is those Windows-loving nuts who like monopolies as long as its not their industry being affected.

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12/12, 03:59am | report spam | close Reply |
Sad

We need to stop grouping all Windows users and all Mac users together. It's like racism for the new millennium.

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12/12, 05:59am | report spam | close Reply |
Seriously...

Can you spell E-N-V-Y ?.....

Poor guy.

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12/12, 06:35am | report spam | close Reply |
Apple released a fix

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=32478

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12/12, 06:50am | report spam | close Reply |
The guy...

The guy is just jealous I guess.

I believe it's too easy to say that Macs don't come under attack because they are a niche market. If you listen to hackers, they usually explain that they hack systems to prove there is a vulnerability, not to cause any damage. But I guess most programmers don't know s*** about the Mac, so even if they wanted to exploit some weakness in Mac OS X, it would take them to learn about the Mac platform (which ultimately would show them how good it is).

I simply love it when I tell my friends I don't even have an anti-virus protection on my Mac, yet they have their PC crumbling under viruses and worms of all kinds, even with the latest anti-virus software for Windows. Not to mention their OS will become slower and slower as time goes by.

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12/12, 07:46am | report spam | close Reply |
re:: "Whenever one"

did you just figure that out, dickhead? Did you just install your first Windows program?

What if every time someone wrote an article criticizing Apple you had to listen to the same old Mac fucktards yap about Windows... over and over again?

And Mr. Assclown, the word is "opinion". You might think you're being creative by changing the spelling, but really you just look like a elementary school loser who never does his homework.

thank you

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12/12, 08:21am | report spam | close Reply |
BREAKING NEWS!

On the pcmag main page:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1410170,00.asp

and

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1409028,00.asp

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12/12, 09:44am | report spam | close Reply |
Sigh.

So how many of you here bitching could actually program software better than Microsoft? I bet I won't see any hands raised. Fact of the matter is, it's VERY difficult to release software that has absolutely no bugs. Go look at a changelog of any program, you'll usually see a good number of bugfixes between revisions. So, anyway, it just so happens that a number of bugs can happen to be actual security exploits, if you're enough of a script kiddie or hex guy to mess with them. Fact is, people go after Windows because when they do, they get the largest response possible due to it's large marketshare. Don't be fooled and think that Mac OS is perfect -- someone could easily write a virus and there are probably more security holes than most will ever find, but the only really large advantage that Mac OS has is security through obscurity. It is true that Windows usually leaves more ports open and whatnot than most other OSes, but if software wasn't eternally doomed to human imperfection, it wouldn't matter whether those ports were firewalled or not. You can't hack into a computer on any particular port if the service running on that port has no exploits. Besides, if Mac OS was so bug free, we wouldn't see compilations of system fixes in a system update every month or so, now would we? For now, I'll take comfort in the fact that Mac OS doesn't have the marketshare that Windows has. If it did, there would be an exponentially larger amount of people looking for bugs and security holes, and an exponentially larger amount of stupid little kids trying to compensate for something by writing exploits for those holes so everyone would notice.

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12/12, 09:56am | report spam | close Reply |
maybe Apple needs zealots

Even incorrect negative press for Apple just confirms the average PC user in their choice of their own obviously flawed platform. My mother who can't do a thing with her PC (five years into using Windows 98 she can't figure out how to save a file and then find it again) is petrified of changing platforms, no matter how much I try to convince her that it will be so much easier for her to use a Mac. This kind of article just convinces people like her that they won't benefit if they change.

Because of the small user base a few potential switchers who are deterred by this kind of article can make a difference. Zealots serve a useful purpose by always jumping into the breach to refute the knee-jerk negative attitude of the mainstream towards Apple.

Microsoft doesn't need zealots, it needs detractors

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12/12, 10:19am | report spam | close Reply |
despite

all the faults with windows and the PC, it still is the king of marketshare. No matter what anyone says, no one can take that FACT away.

Apple is just a 2 bit player trying to hustle up business any way it can with its pathetic marketshare.

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12/12, 10:31am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: despite

Despite that Windows is the king of marketshare, it is still a piece of c*** - and only Microsoft can take that FACT away, but they aren't doing that, are they.

Apple is for those who value a quality OS with a quality interface. We couldn't care less if it was the most popular.

Only losers with pathetic self-esteem issues believes that not being the most popular is criticism.

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12/12, 10:39am | report spam | close Reply |
Zealots

"Zealots serve a useful purpose by always jumping into the breach to refute the knee-jerk negative attitude of the mainstream towards Apple."

Zealots also serve to make the Mac userbase look like a bunch of retards.

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12/12, 10:44am | report spam | close Reply |
"Pretty Pathetic"

Not really when I think of the logic...

Chevy puts out many more cars than Porche...and they have many more defects.

I agree with him.
He is right.
Windows does suck, is mass produced, and for the every day average poor joe who just wants cheap transportation. Just deal with the problems and be mature about it.

I own a Chevy btw, but my computer is a Mac.

:O)

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12/12, 10:49am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Sigh.

I will raise my hand. What you fail to understand it's not because of individual programmers, and it's not that we expect no bugs. It's the quality control, and software architecture that makes Windows so insecure. They don't design with security in mind, and I'm convinced they don't care. Windows is a pile of kludgy patches on top of each other to add more and more features.

Quality Control should have caught many MS vulnerabilities, or the design should have prevented them in the first place.

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12/12, 10:57am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Sigh

So how many of you here bitching could actually program software better than Microsoft? I bet I won't see any hands raised.

Well, that would be a fact, because it would mean that (a) you could see other readers from your own little dark room, and (b) Mac users are stupid enough to raise their hands to a question posted on a web board.

However, I can and do program software better than MS. Using MS tools, I am just amazed at some of the stupidity that goes into their software. Could I write something as complex as MS Word? No, I doubt it. But programming isn't just about coming up with ideas for software, coding it up, and shipping it out the door. Coding is less than a third of the whole process. Where's the internal code testing? The code review? Most of the bugs you find in windows are buffer overruns. Buffer overruns are the result of (a) poor coding, and (b) poor or no review of others code. That is, laziness.

Fact of the matter is, it's VERY difficult to release software that has absolutely no bugs. Go look at a changelog of any program, you'll usually see a good number of bugfixes between revisions. So, anyway, it just so happens that a number of bugs can happen to be actual security exploits, if you're enough of a script kiddie or hex guy to mess with them.

Of course, bugs are the nature of programming. But MS software isn't just buggy, its security ridden as well. And the security vulnerabilities usually lie on one of three fronts. Macro vulnerabilities, buffer overruns, and just plain security hole (like the recent RFC madness).

Macros are indicative of the biggest problem with MS and security. Because MS NEVER initially looked at them as potential to cause harm, so they made them as powerful as possible. The first macro virus for Word that I recall was soon after Office 95 was released. MS's solution? Add an option to Office 97 "Disable macros in documents", which was an all or nothing proposition. This didn't stop the problems, so they made it more complex, with digitally signed documents and the like. What didn't they do? Well, they never went back to the drawing board and re-worked the macro language for security. Their idea of security is to leave everything alone, but make you responsible for making sure the macros that are trying to run are valid. Macro viruses/exploits have been around since 95. They are still problems. That shows a lack of security conciousness to me.

Similarly, MS's recent concept of 'secure computing' is to (a) run a firewall, (b) run anti-virus software, and (c) make sure you get those security patches.

Or, how about OE/IE security holes. Like all the mail worms/viruses spread around because MS actually never thought that someone might put some malicious scripting code into email messages. Why anyone at the company actually said to themselves "Yes, we want to allow activ

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12/12, 11:01am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Sigh

While I agree with you that it would be extrememly difficult to write a complex program with no bugs, your statement, "the only really large advantage that Mac OS has is security through obscurity" just shows that you yourself are not very familiar with programming and the source of many of Windows' problems.

Yes, many (most) of the security Windows has are related to bugs, but in only a few instances are those bugs alone enough to create a security risk. In fact, it is Microsoft's poor security protocal and infrastructure that are the real cause. Microsoft seems to have two primary objectives for their software:

1) Add more features to get people to buy upgrades
2) Make programming as easy as possible so more developers will use their software instead of someone else's

The first leads to an emphasis on feature bloat without taking the time to correct the problems with previous versions...thus many of the bugs. The second issue results in things like VB and ports open by default which allow things that shouldn't be allowed. Their desire to make components as flexible for programmers as possible directly leads to the vast majority of the problems with Windows. It allows anyone with a high school education to write (or modify) a crippling virus resulting in billions of dollars a damage. That total lack of concern for the impact to end users is appalling.

So while small market share certainly helps the Mac, you assertation that this is the only "advantage" the Mac has is way off base. If the market share numbers were reversed, would there be more attacks on Macs? Yes! Would it be as prolific and result in as much damage? h*** no!!

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12/12, 11:01am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Sigh (cont'd)

Or, how about OE/IE security holes. Like all the mail worms/viruses spread around because MS actually never thought that someone might put some malicious scripting code into email messages. Why anyone at the company actually said to themselves "Yes, we want to allow activeX and VB script within email messages, because it will be so useful to all of our customers" is beyond me. Can anyone tell me what use scripting in email could possibly be? But there it was, turned on, allowing Melissas and the like to be spread by doing nothing more than reading an email.

MS has been trying to do security by hacking it onto their existing software, rather than actually working on it from the beginning or doing redesigns. And as any programmer will tell you, hacking anything onto code not designed for that task is only going to lead to more problems, not less.

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12/12, 11:18am | report spam | close Reply |
Another fact

"all the faults with windows and the PC, it still is the king of marketshare. No matter what anyone says, no one can take that FACT away."

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

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12/12, 11:47am | report spam | close Reply |
Virus attacks / vulner...

abilities... are exploited by children, copying and pasting code they have no clue as to what it does.

It is just easy in MS Windows for them to do this, and near impossible for the Mac as they would have to use their puny brains and actually think.

Pure numbers.
If the numbers where switched, there would be fewer viri. FACT.

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12/12, 12:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
Fact

The Mac zealots in here are utter morons. I'm glad I'm just a Mac user and not a Mac zealot.

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12/12, 12:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Sigh.

"Could I write something as complex as MS Word? No, I doubt it."

Then I suggest you don't comment until you can.

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12/12, 12:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hmm

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."

On the otherhand, never underestimate the power of zealots in small groups either i.e. Jim Jones group and Aum Shinrikyo.

" abilities... are exploited by children, copying and pasting code they have no clue as to what it does.

It is just easy in MS Windows for them to do this, and near impossible for the Mac as they would have to use their puny brains and actually think."

Really? Please, I dare you, no, I implore you, to post a plain text copy of a working Window virus that YOU can create by copying and pasting code. Sure it is easy but not as easy as you think.

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12/12, 12:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Fact

"The Mac zealots in here are utter morons. I'm glad I'm just a Mac user and not a Mac zealot. "

What exactly are you accomplishing with this post?

A) You're obviously not a mac user, but rather a PC zealot.
B) There have been plenty of intelligent posts in this thread, but you obviously have not bothered to read them and/or understand them.
C) You make the same inane post in almost every forum I've seen here at macnn.
D ) No one cares about your "mac zealot" bashing and so this brings me back to my original question:

What exactly are you accomplishing with this post and all your other mac zealots suck posts? I periodically ask you this question and you never respond, why is that? I'm guessing if you do respond it will include how I am a moron and a mac zealot even though you know nothing about me. Funny you accuse others of being morons, yet you never post anything of any substance yourself so what does that make you? I can't wait to see what kind of witty, one liner, no brain response you're gonna give now.....

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12/12, 12:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hmmm

My mother who can't do a thing with her PC (five years into using Windows 98 she can't figure out how to save a file and then find it again) is petrified of changing platforms, no matter how much I try to convince her that it will be so much easier for her to use a Mac. This kind of article just convinces people like her that they won't benefit if they change.
***
1. You mother is a r*****.
2. You are a r***** for not being able to change her.
3. Your mother reads PCmag and understands it? Or are you f*cking exaggerating out of your a**?

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12/12, 01:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
I'm a zealot

Yes, I have posted previous messages to this discussion. Yes, I'm a zealot. No, I am not a Mac zealot. I am a facts zealot. I have a passion for the truth and honestly representing the facts. I will defend either Macs or PCs if the arguement being made is false. In this case, the article's author is obviously misrepresenting and distorting the facts.

I applaud both the Mac and PC zealots who have defended their positions with rational arguments...passionate discussion is how progress is achieved.

But I feel sorry for those who make a debate about COMPUTERS is a moral topic and feel the need to personally insult other posters (or their mothers).

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12/12, 01:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Sigh

I love comments like this, "if you can't do a better job, don't complain about it". Alright, so are you saying that if I was one of the people who purchased a new Ford vehicle in 2000 equipped with standard Firestone tires that proceeded to shred, blow out, and cause a serious accident, I couldn't complain about it because I COULDN'T MAKE A BETTER FREAKING TIRE!!!??? Its an absurd and irrelevant question. h***, under that line of logic, I couldn't complain when the food I was served at a restaurant was not prepared the way I ordered it simply because I couldn't do a better job, myself, of preparing it. We are comparing Company A (Microsoft) to Company B (Apple) here, not seeing who has a longer p****. Of course I could not do a better job than a company who employs several thousand people, it simply is not possible. On the other hand, do I believe better software could be created? Certainly, in fact, I believe better software than Mac OS X can be produced as well (Indeed, Apple proves this annually with its updates). I think that given enough time and effort, anything can be improved upon. We would not see new products if this wasn't so. Call it advancement, call it evolution, call it whatever you like, progress exists in every facet of life, and thankfully, no matter what people like you say, will continue to do so.

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12/12, 01:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
I can do a better job

No, I can't program Microsoft Word or Windows, because those products took hundreds of people years of work to produce. No single human can possibly do that, so it's an inherently flawed assumption to say that because I can't do it I can't complain, just as is the case with the Firestone tire analogy above.

That said, within the realm of what I'm personally capable of doing with a single lifetime, yes, I CAN program better software than MS. The systems I program don't just crash if I s**** up, they cause things to explode, catch fire, or do real, physical damage. As of yet, they have not done any of those things, because I and my co-workers are careful, and do things right.

Windows is more complicated than what I do, but Microsoft has reaped billions in profits from it--profits, not gross income, which means money that could've been spent making Windows better but wasn't. A billion dollars will buy a lot of programmer-hours. They've had nearly a decade to get things working with some modicum of security, and have failed. Repeatedly.

Contrast with Linux--as far as visible targets go, it's an even bigger one than MS. There are twice as many websites running linux as MS IIS, and if you want to do something public, you hack a web server. I have never once read anything that showed Linux/Apache to be less secure than IIS.

I also wonder what the real logic of giving so much scripting power to Word and e-mail programs and never removing it. I doubt there was this much forethought to that boneheaded act, but at this point perhaps MS sees it as the perfect way to push their pervasive (and perverted) security technologies. I hope that's just paranoid ranting, but it's a frightening concept nonetheless--how do you force yourself into every data transaction in the world? Make the world's most popular OS so insecure it's the only way to fix it.

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12/12, 02:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Fact

Not the same person, was just looking to see what kind of response I'd get :)

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12/12, 02:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
A pedant writes

The plural of virus is viruses.
There's no such thing as 'viri' or 'virii' you thickies.

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12/12, 03:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Hmmm...

"On the otherhand, never underestimate the power of zealots in small groups either i.e. Jim Jones group and Aum Shinrikyo."

Or Martin Luther King. Or Gahndi. Or Mother Theresa. (Sound like a Think Different campaign?)

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12/12, 03:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
"a pedant writes"...

Sucker.
I know that, just like I know you are an idiot reactionary twit, because you pounced on such a stupid mistake.

Got anything real to say?

I thought not, and so did you.

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12/12, 03:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
"Pedant"

BTW:

Do you know what "pedant" means?

Here you go genius.

ped�ant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pdnt)
n.
One who pays undue attention to book learning and formal rules.

That would be you Freud.

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12/12, 04:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Flame flame...

flame away

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12/12, 11:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
well...

His article does not make Windows more secure, does it?

I think this guy has issues...

Do he have a email address?

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12/13, 08:21am | report spam | close Reply |
LOL!

He got jealous that we finally a bug for him, but it only open on the boot time...

Btw, he must suffer from the 59 security patches...

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12/13, 01:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
as a mac sysadmin

I have never seen a Mac virus- ever. I run Mc Afee daily on our OS X servers. Nothing- nada. I have however seen 14 out of our 15 Windows 2000 PCs get MS Blast and rendered useless for a day or two. I have also seen a SQL server get the SQL slammer worm and render a password database useless for three days. There may be vunerabilities in OS X- or any OS for that matter. But Apple is quick to fix them. So this columnist can take his check from Microsoft and shut up.

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12/13, 04:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
Lance - Lance

Poopy-Pants

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Columnist highlights Mac security flaw

updated 07:10 pm EST, Thu December 11, 2003

Columnist on Mac security

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Another fact

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"a pedant writes"...

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