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Apple: Can Sex Appeal Counter Sticker Shock?

updated 02:05 pm EST, Tue December 2, 2003

Apple vs. Linux pricing

Information Week's discusses Apple's pricing versus other competitors, noting that while Apple leads its competitors in technology, only 15% of business-technology professionals say advanced technology is their most important criterion for choosing a PC vendor; and that 83% of respondents choose cost as the number one priority: "Problem is, Linux users can get similar capabilities for even less, says Gordon Haff, an analyst at research firm Illuminata. 'The challenge Apple has is they're not just competing against Windows in the server space. They're also competing against Linux,' he says 'And I don't see Apple having a clear knock-down punch against Linux.'"

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12/02, 02:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
15% is important, not 83

Apple is selling to the 15% that do appreciate user interfaces, and advanced technology. Apple would dilute their brand and give up their edge if they tried to compete for 100% of users. It costs money to develop a superior product. If Apple were to appeal to the penny pushers, they would have to remove things that give the Mac platform it's edge.

Why can't analysts and pundits understand that?]

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12/02, 02:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
Linux Shminux

Another FUD-dy duddy speaks!

What can a Mac OS X installation offer over Linux?

� Real desktop applications!
� Hardware and software that actually works together, because it was DESIGNED to work!
� AND we don't need legions of IT twits on call (or on the PAYROLL) to keep 'em up and running.

We don't need no Linux voodoo rattles and bones to make our systems work!

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12/02, 02:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
There is always an excuse

There is always an excuse

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12/02, 02:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
I

I love linux, but I agree with posters 1 and 2 above for the most part.

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12/02, 02:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
Linux vs OS X

Linux for the Unix geeks, Mac OS X for the rest of us.

Linux is poised to become more and more present in the mid term future. If developers can come up with a friendly user interface and a minimum standardization. Linux is already widely used in servers though.

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12/02, 02:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Distros

Is Linux primarily a free OS? With various companies charging for their more polished versions?

Wow... FREE is popular among UNIX geeks what a revelation.

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12/02, 02:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Linux...

OS X has (and always has had, for that matter) the biggest, albeit most often ignored advantage over every other system out there�TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). Sure Linux is cheap/free, that is until you break it and need to pay hundreds of dollars an hour to a tech to fix it. Everyone is always focusing on the outlay and totally ignoring the long term. It's like saying "look at this great car I got for $1000, sure it only gets 1 mile to the gallon, but who cares, it was SO Cheap". No one would fail to recognize the long term cost in that situation, but when it comes to computers, everyone loses their head!

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12/02, 02:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Um

I would be happy to tare apart this drivel.

"Apple is selling to the 15% that do appreciate user interfaces, and advanced technology."

Wonderful. An excellent strategy for gaining market share. Sell to only the few individuals who are so rich they no longer care about price/value. There are ways of pushing advanced technology without overcharging people by 300%. Or maybe you buy from apple just to support them for being "first" on a technology? Good for you. Me, I would rather have something at a price I can afford.

"Apple would dilute their brand and give up their edge if they tried to compete for 100% of users."

Compete for 100% users? Apple isn't even competing for 5% users! Apple's strength should NOT be in it's brand, but it's price/value. Pepsi has a strong brand, but it still rots your teeth and makes you fat. The product is completely worthless... the only reason people buy it is because of the brand. Surely you believe apple should be worth more then it's brand and the strength of it's marketing?

"It costs money to develop a superior product."

Ah, see. That's where apple has you. Marketing is about perception. And perception has nothing to do with how much it costs to make something. PC vendors repeatedly copy apple's technology and undercut them in price. That tells me that the technology is NOT what is driving up the price. It's the BRAND. ONLY the brand. Apple assumes you're stupid enough to think they put out a quality product based solely on how it looks on the outside. And many times, they would be right.

Now, many times I like the end product apple puts out. It IS nice that apple puts some value in the presentation and how you "feel" when using a product. But it's NOT nice when apple starts trying to push out products who's value is hyped up basically "because it's from apple so it has to be good". That's complete BS, and I'm getting sick and tired of it. (If you don't believe me, as an example, look at the apple forums on iCal. I have no problems in saying that iCal is a complete POS, and apple should be shot for even releasing it. People only use it because it's apple.)

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12/02, 03:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: linux vs OS X

Linux is poised to become more and more present in the mid term future. If developers can come up with a friendly user interface and a minimum standardization. Linux is already widely used in servers though.

Well, that ain't going to happen. They can't even decide on a UI (Gnome, KDE, something else, stop wasting time duplicating effort and settle on one for goodness sakes!), let alone any type of standardization. The problem with Linux is that its written by Unix geeks for Unix geeks, so functionality is more important than usability.

h***, they can't even name their apps decently. They always use strange acronyms that always start with the same freakin' letter (k or g or x).

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12/02, 03:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Um

PC vendors repeatedly copy apple's technology and undercut them in price. That tells me that the technology is NOT what is driving up the price. It's the BRAND. ONLY the brand. Apple assumes you're stupid enough to think they put out a quality product based solely on how it looks on the outside. And many times, they would be right.

No, Apple's problem is they actually spend the R&D money to develop technology, and then they actually price the products to try to make back the cost. When other companies copy the tech, they don't have to spend the upfront costs, so of course they can sell it cheaper. The tech itself is cheap. Its designing and engineering it that's expensive.

[You know, if it costs $10 million to create a piece of software, you sell it at a price to try to make back the 10 million, (10 million + profit)/(# of potential users), you don't sell it for $5 because that's all the CD costs to manufacture.]

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12/02, 03:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
Um� Not Quite�

Price/performance was the SOLE criteria considered in the purchase of equipment for the Virginia Tech Cluster. Read the data regarding the decision, review the results. Now use your superior brain to explain why there isn't a Linux solution with a comparable presence. Soon the XServe product line which is alrerady arguably the cheapest RAID server solution per Mb on the market will be based on IBM 970s and outperform the units used in Virginia hands down. AND you can run Linux on them out of the box, but why would you when the price includes an unlimited user license for any proprietary software and robust secure iterations of nearly every important open source program needed to deal with enterprise data (X11 built-in too) AND a powerful, easy to use GUI that many shops are using as a front end to manage their existing Linux and Unix boxes?
So who are these efforts aimed at? 5%, 15%?
Anyone who doesn't seriously consider Apple solutions is at least 85% idiot.

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12/02, 03:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
still nonsense

Sticker shock? Go feature match the 15" iMac at dell, and then you'll see what sticker shock really is.

Not to mention the MS way of selling two version of the same OS - home and pro - with Apple it's all pro - just use as much as you want.

This is mostly FUD. Go read Slashdot and see what the *nix crowd thinks of OSX. They love it for many of the above reasons - solid productivity right out of the box, all the geek features and a great development machine given the xTools that now ships with Panther.

Apple is now well valued. They are certainly not the most expensive price points for a given function.

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12/02, 03:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Um

My point was that Apple can't afford to price themselves with Bob's clone shop down the street. They have expenses that Bob doesn't have. Bob's clone shop down the street doesn't have to pay to develop Windows - it's done for him. He just pays his relatively tiny OEM fee. Apple's customers are those who are willing to pay a little extra to get something a little extra - a more refined, and more productive user environment.

I find it funny that the bad product you complain about is iCal - something offered for free. You just supported my argument - it costs money to develop a superior product.

You fail to grasp the difference between costing more and overcharging. Apple's finances are public - feel free to go over them, and add up all the dollars that Apple doesn't need to spend. Then divide that over the number of Macs Apple sells and see how much Apple "overcharges".

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12/02, 05:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yeah, OK

"They always use strange acronyms that always start with the same freakin' letter (k or g or x)."

Riiiight. Apple, on the other hand,....

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12/02, 05:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yeah, OK

"This is mostly FUD. Go read Slashdot and see what the *nix crowd thinks of OSX. They love it for many of the above reasons - solid productivity right out of the box, all the geek features and a great development machine given the xTools that now ships with Panther.

Apple is now well valued. They are certainly not the most expensive price points for a given function."

Bullshit. How long have you been reading /.? Sure, they love it but not the truth is not everyone can afford it or want to justify the gain in to justify the cost. Why do you think Apple still does not have one third of the PC market like iPod. Blame it on Gates and Dell like a typical knee-jerk response or does Apple share some blame as well?

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12/02, 06:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Yeah, OK

"Why do you think Apple still does not have one third of the PC market like iPod."

That's because:
- there are many PC makers, while there's ONE Mac maker
- big companies order PCs in bulk. This makes the ratio PC : Mac not representative to the real users.
- PCs have a shorter lifespan. This increases the amount of PCs artificially.

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12/02, 07:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Did the guy price an Xsrv

Not many boxes ship with the same power for a lower price, Linux or not.

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12/02, 07:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yeah, OK

"That's because:
- there are many PC makers, while there's ONE Mac maker
- big companies order PCs in bulk. This makes the ratio PC : Mac not representative to the real users.
- PCs have a shorter lifespan. This increases the amount of PCs artificially."

--------------

What a dumb f***. Please do not tell people you use Macs. You make us look stupid.

1. There is only one iPod maker and many MP3 player makers too so how do you explain how Apple get one third of the market share there.

2. So what if PC makers order things in bulk? You think they just decide, heck, we will order a million PCs without doing feasibility study, sales forecast, etc to gauge how many they will sell?

3. This point is arguable because yes, PCs do have a shorter lifespan but this still does not change the fact that 1) when PC users are ready to buy a new PC, they are not buying a Mac (switch campaign), and 2) Mac users are slow in buying new Macs. Both are bad.

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12/02, 08:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
i wanna play...

Arguing is fun!

I'm guessing that the reason Apple has one third of the Digital Music player market is because... companies don't buy digital music players, people buy the players... and people don't place orders for thousands of devices at once. Companies buy a buttload of computers and OS's and keep upgrading those same machines and software...

Plus, PC and Windows has momentum from the past... they got to the top of the hill years ago and has had time to build a strong fortress that is tough to crack... Digital music players are relatively new, there's was no king of the hill a couple years ago... all companies were scrambling up the hill to get to the top, and Apple beat them, but Apple is still building it's fortress, so they're vulnerable right now, but they made it to the top and claimed the marketshare.

I'm curious of what market share is regarding Macs and PCs when it comes to households and excluding companies... I've never heard what that equates to.

eh, I don't know, I'm making this s*** up as I go along... hehe...

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12/03, 12:31am | report spam | close Reply |
Yeah, OK

Damn right you are making up this s*** up because you are not making any sense. I hate idiot Mac users that make the rest of us look bad. Arguing OS X is better than other OS is one thing but trying to argue Apple is cheaper, Dell/MS paid Neistat brother to deface iPod ads, etc. - all stupid, stupid stupid. Dumbass zealots.

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12/03, 09:43am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Yeah, ok.

Grow up kid. If you can't make your argument without personally insulting people, then you really have no argument at all. Anyway, who said Dell/MS paid the the Neistat brothers?

And when you consider total cost of ownership, Macs are cheaper - almost every time. If you don't understand total cost of ownership, I suggest you go do some research before posting back here.

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12/03, 12:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
We did the comparison

We saw the TCO appear rather dramatically recently.

For a recent project, Apple sent us an XServe. We had a Linux box we were using for the same task previously. Similar generations of hardware, similar releases of the tools. The XServe was easier to set up and maintain, and got the job done faster.

Since this is a server product, we will sell the customer whatever they want. If the customers want Bobs Cheap Clone, I will be happy to get one from Frys or the Koreans in the nearby strip mall. That said, for our own in house server, we bought a new G5. We do not profit from maintenance or system configuration work; we profit from the product working and selling.

Scott

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12/03, 12:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yeah, OK

"Anyway, who said Dell/MS paid the the Neistat brothers?"

Uh, did you read ANY of the previous posts where sevral claimed that the defacement must have been done by Dell employees?

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12/03, 01:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not OK

Let's test YOUR ability to read for content. So if a secretary at a local Republican Party headquarters defaces a Howard Dean website you proffer the explanation that the Republican Party and the Wall Street Journal allegedly paid for it?
You must be on the myopic level of those you insult, can't see the forest for the trees, or read between the lines. The discussion here is whether Apple's products are really underachievers and overpriced. Neither is true, they are world class powerful and affordable if not downright cheap. If you can't afford an Apple you can't afford a comparable Dell.

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12/04, 11:42am | report spam | close Reply |
preference

there really is no "better" product, merely a better situation, in that we have market competition. its all a matter of choice. if you would prefer to get things done faster, better and more easily, then get a mac. if you would rather another $500 in your pocket and dont mind putting up with a flawed system, buy a cheap pc. i think you can save money by buying a pc, not as much as the difference in price between them at the start as pcs are more expensive to keep for very long, but a considerable amount of money. this logic, however, flies out the window if you are going to use your computer for work or study. in that case, people rarely consider the benefits of having a mac in increased productivity, leaving a better impression on clients/teachers, thus earning you a higher salary or better grades which in all likelyhood will lead to a higher salary. that kind of advantage cant be quantified, as everyone's situation is different. but id go for a mac...

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Apple: Can Sex Appeal Counter Sticker Shock?

updated 02:05 pm EST, Tue December 2, 2003

Apple vs. Linux pricing

15% is important, not 83

Linux Shminux

There is always an excuse

I

Linux vs OS X

Distros

Linux...

Um

Re: linux vs OS X

Re: Um

Um� Not Quite�

still nonsense

Re: Um

Yeah, OK

Yeah, OK

Re: Yeah, OK

Did the guy price an Xsrv

Yeah, OK

i wanna play...

Yeah, OK

Re: Yeah, ok.

We did the comparison

Yeah, OK

Not OK

preference

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Apple: Can Sex Appeal Counter Sticker Shock?

updated 02:05 pm EST, Tue December 2, 2003

Apple vs. Linux pricing

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Did the guy price an Xsrv

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