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Ars: Panther is $130 investment into Mac's future

updated 10:00 am EST, Mon November 10, 2003

Ars posts Panther review

Ars-technica's John Siracusa has written his , concluding: "This is nothing to be ashamed of, but the other side of the coin is that many of the year-old complaints also still apply: unpolished corners of the user interface, the Finder, the metadata situation, and even user interface responsiveness (to some degree) are all still issues in Panther. But I do think the overall rate of improvement is accelerating; it's just not distributed quite the way I would like. As with Jaguar, many problems can be overcome or avoided with the help of third party software. Like Jaguar before it, it is nearly impossible to recommend against upgrading to Panther."

by MacNN Staff

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11/10, 10:21am | report spam | close Reply |
Vive le Qu�bec libre!

Tabarnak!

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11/10, 10:29am | report spam | close Reply |
Nice reviews but...

He really should understand that his view of the perfect OS is not the be all and end all. His view of metadata is just not going to happen. He should accept that.

However, I do enjoy reading his reviews. He goes to great depths and gives reasons for all of his opinions, whether or not I agree with all of them. Some I do, some I don't.

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11/10, 10:31am | report spam | close Reply |
bump

nt

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11/10, 10:42am | report spam | close Reply |
one view...

Nice article, I disagree with it.

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11/10, 11:00am | report spam | close Reply |
Two things still missing

1. Apple menu (and yes I use FruitMenu), but want an OS level Apple Menu.
2. Allow users to put the Trashcan on the desktop.

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11/10, 11:14am | report spam | close Reply |
Great!

A $130 Million Dollar investment in c***. The mouse still does not work. You still have to wait. OSX still crashes big time. Apple is a bunch of total incompetant liars.

This OS sucks!

�pple desperately needs a new CEO or it will fail next year.

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11/10, 11:22am | report spam | close Reply |
re: Great!

Dude, you WAY over paid. The rest of us can get Panther for less than $130. At $130 million, you got majorly ripped off.

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11/10, 11:25am | report spam | close Reply |
works for me

Panther works very well on my two machines (less than 2 years old). Whats everyone complaining about?!

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11/10, 11:26am | report spam | close Reply |
The only upgrade worth...

paying for so far.

Unlike Jaguar, Panther actually includes most of the features that were present in OS 9, so it actually qualifies itself as an 'upgrade', unlike Jaguar.

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11/10, 11:43am | report spam | close Reply |
re: upgrade worth

well, it was "worth it" if you had bought 10.0 or 10.1. if you've been hanging onto mac os 9 thi slong and are now jumping on the os x bandwagon, i do not envy the learning curve you are about to hit.

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11/10, 11:51am | report spam | close Reply |
re: re: worth it...

...I agree - OS-X has been barely beyond beta & dubious as an 'upgrade' since it has been slower & a brutal transition in my personal experience... If it I finally 'as fast' and features are at least equal then perhaps it could be defined as an 'upgrade'... $300+ & endless hours later...

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11/10, 11:51am | report spam | close Reply |
Listen to this guy, folks

His "view" on metadata is simply logical thinking. And it will happen, eventually. It's a shame that Apple has taken so many steps back in this area. UNIX/Windows compatibility is nice, but there are ways of implementing a highly sophisticated metadata system while maintaining cross-platform compatibility.

I also think he's right about the Finder. It still needs a lot of work, GUI-wise and it's changed little in this respect since the first version on X. The dual metal browser/old window style isn't working for me either. Apple needs to separate these two different types of windows.

I agree on the window title bar pin-strips! I also think Panther's a worthy upgrade.

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11/10, 12:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
Third party software

As with Jaguar, many problems can be overcome or avoided with the help of third party software.

Just to be one of those "OS 9 wasn't that great, people, get over it" guys, the same was true for OS 9. There was a lot of third-party software people used to get around problems with the OS or GUI. First and foremost there was Conflict Catcher. I'm still waiting for the OS X version of the software. How am I supposed to test for conflicts without it?

And I don't miss the Apple menu at all. Guess its because I always used more powerful launcher programs in OS 9, as I do in OS X.

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11/10, 12:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: The only upgrade wort

What in god's name are you smoking and where can I get some of that. Jaguar wasn't an "upgrade"? What was Rendezvous, what was QUARTZ EXTREME, what was the massive upgrade to the BSD subsystem, what was the performance boost from the move to gcc 3.1, what was the addition of more and better smb and AD support, etc etc. If you think Jaguar wasn't an "upgrade" you are deluded. Whether or not it was what OS X should have been when it was first released is another matter, Jaguar was a MASSIVE update from 10.1. The modularity and relative ease of modification with OS X ensures that such huge updates will be the norm, not the exception, from here on.

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11/10, 12:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
Great!

Are the moron I degraded in another post?

Why don't you find a nice little corner somewhere and shut the h*** up. Gawd! You make me sick, you pc lov'in mother fu-ker!!!

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11/10, 12:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
lamerz & trollz

lame trollz and PC self abusers that only use their computers for 733t gAMez and p*** need not concern yourselves with this site. mac users actually do things with their computers that are worthwhile, a concept foreign to you.

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11/10, 12:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
Dumb

His view of the finder went off the deep end by spanning 2 huge pages of bitching. Like the new finder, his reviews are rough around the edges and would benefit from the use of third-party enhancements.

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11/10, 12:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
Siracusa ...

... makes a lot of compelling points, but he DOES suffer from the rather bizarre affliction that HIS view of how the OS should be modified is the ONLY correct view.

That is just plain wrong.

Everyone knows that *Steve's* view of how the OS should be modified is the only correct view! :)

(jus' messin' wit ya Steve -- love ya man!)

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11/10, 12:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Freaking awesome

Panther is Freaking AWESOME. I don't know why the trolls are so scared of panther if it sucks so much. I honestly think people are frightened by change, frightened by the notion that maybe windows is not the end all be all of operating systems. People have invested thousands in windows and to be suddenly told that you have to wait 3 years for MS to try to fix some of them fundamental problems with windows, like security. People do not want to admit that maybe they made the wrong choice. I know several people who are so feb up with the MS treadmill BS, that they are looking into using Mac OS X. I even had a co-worker g out and buy a new 17" powerbook as a "try-out" if he did not like it he would pay the 10% restocking fee. 48 hours later. He could not stop talking about how fantastic it was. We're both web programmers. I've been using mac for 10 years and when he saw me working day after day on a mac and not having problems he took notice. He sold his $2,200 toshiba laptop after that. BTW we use linux servers, PHP and MySQL. And now I have another co-worker look to get one on ebay soon. Mac OS X rocks.

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11/10, 01:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: The only upgrade wor

what was QUARTZ EXTREME

A hack apple had to add-on to compensate for the bloated UI eye-candy they put in OSX that made the UI super-sluggish.

Plus the fact that the APIs between Jaguar and Panther changed so much (just look at all the games/sw that no longer works properly in Panther) confirms that Jaguar was still just beta.

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11/10, 02:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:2 things still missing

Jeez man get over it already! This is not OS 9. This is something much better.
The current usage of the Apple Menu makes a lot more sense than the old one ever did with it's hodgepodge of everything and anything. Also, having the trash can on the Dock means you don't have to move any windows out of the way just to delete something.

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11/10, 02:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
heh heh

'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned

By PA News Reporter

Computer giant Apple has been banned by advertising watchdogs from claiming its latest product is �the world�s fastest, most powerful personal computer�.

The claim was made in a television advert for the Apple PowerMac G5.

But the Independent Television Commission branded the advert �misleading� and banned it from being broadcast.

Eight viewers contacted the ITC to complain that the claim was based on the results of limited tests in which the specification of the computers used was configured to give Apple the best results.
ple said the tests, carried out by an independent third party, were �fair and even�.

But the ITC found that the claim was not supported by independent reviews and that, at best, the G5 was only �generally as fast� as its competitors.

In its advertising complaints report, it ruled: �The ITC considered that there was insufficient evidence to support the claim �world�s fastest, most powerful personal computer�.

�Furthermore, it shared one viewer�s doubt that the claim could be substantiated at all because, as evidence for and against the claim had shown, computers were constantly being updated and had many different applications and benchmarks.�

It concluded that �the advertising was misleading and ... should not be re-shown in its current form�.

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11/10, 02:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
ALL Software is Beta!

At this point in time ALL software is beta.... regardless of platform or developer. EVERYTHING is a work in progress. This will NEVER end! And this is good, everything is in continual transition....

That said, having had Panther running on my PowerBook for less that 18 hours, I've got to say it's damn amazing! It's noticably FASTER! I could live without the faux metal look, but it could be worse (Windows)!

With Expos� alone, I've already been able to disable (and will most likely abandon) a bunch of OS 9 style third party utilities. ASM and Labels X, to name 2.

To whoever tried to denegrate Quartz Extreme... wake up! The idea was and remains brilliant. Our Macs have extremely powerful graphics processors, which essentially sit half idle to majority of the time, except when playing serious games or doing 3D or Photoshop work. Apple simply harnessed the dormant power of these things to handle numerous GUI tasks and free up the main processor to work on our work! Seems damn logical.

Panther CLAWS Jaguar!

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11/10, 03:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:ALL Software is Beta!

Panther CLAWS Jaguar!

Of course, since Jaguar was clearly still beta.

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11/10, 03:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: upgrade worth

i do not envy the learning curve you are about to hit.

If it was well done there wouldn't be any!

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11/10, 03:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
so funny

Some of you are so funny, continually complaining about OS X. What would YOU like it to do???? Make toast? Clean your laundry? Be your girlfriend???

Geez people, all software is updated. How is OS X any different from Photoshop, Quicken, or any other software app?

Funny how if Apple provides continuing support through updated innovative software, people think "Well it must of sucked before then if they're updating it already". And yet the same people say, "Why haven't they updated hypercard, god dammit!". Face it, you're not opposed to the upgrade - your opposed to getting off your butt and paying for something.

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11/10, 03:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: upgrade worth

i do not envy the learning curve you are about to hit.

If it was well done there wouldn't be any!

Learning curve? What learning curve. OS X ain't much different than OS 9, just looks different. Actually its more powerful, so you might have to learn that you can actually crusie the web while waiting for a task to get done without worrying that you're going to lock up your computer and lose all your work.

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11/10, 04:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE:RE:The only upgrade w***

"What in god's name are you smoking and where can I get some of that. Jaguar wasn't an "upgrade"? What was Rendezvous, what was QUARTZ EXTREME, what was the massive upgrade to the BSD subsystem, what was the performance boost from the move to gcc 3.1, what was the addition of more and better smb and AD support, etc etc"
Agreed, and along with CUPS (which has saved my and probably countless other older printers), Jag was well beyond a mere upgrade.

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11/10, 08:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
s**** this guy...

John Siracusa is f****** g**.

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11/10, 08:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Can I print a finder...

...window in Panther? That's the thing I miss the most in previous versions of OSX.

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11/10, 11:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
Finder windows

You could do it in panther, too. Just drag a folder to the printer icon. Although I'm sure you won't like it. It doesn't do sub-folders or sizes or something (I don't know, I've never had the urge, desire, nor need to ever print out the contents of a directory). There's supposedly some very good shareware/freeware that does even more than what the OS 9 version did. Check out versiontracker.

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11/10, 11:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE:s**** this guy

...And you come across like a f***** moron.

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11/11, 06:46am | report spam | close Reply |
Siracusa talks sense

Read his article, and learn from it. Then read it again until you fully understand it.

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11/11, 07:04am | report spam | close Reply |
Learning Curve....?

i do not envy the learning curve you are about to hit.

???

I wonder what made you type that...? I've only been using Mac OS X for the last 6 months, coming straight from Mac OS 9 to Jaguar, and yeah, I admit that there are some things I'm not yet used to, but... a learning curve? Not really...

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11/11, 10:45am | report spam | close Reply |
Learning curve.

Mac OS's do not have learning curves... it is pretty much a staight line.

Windows is the CURVE...
Crash
I said (crash, reboot) curve...
I SAID, cur....rash, reboot, blue scren of death, power down then up, loose all that just occured... reload the OS... CURVE!

Whinning little b*******!
You don't know what a f****** curve is untill you have suffered through WINDOWS for 10 years!

Thank you Mr. Jobs.
Thank You
Thank You
Thank You.

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Ars: Panther is $130 investment into Mac's future

updated 10:00 am EST, Mon November 10, 2003

Ars posts Panther review

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Vive le Qu�bec libre!

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