toggle

AAPL Stock: 546.08 ( -7.1 )

MacNN News

Apple numbers questioned; analyst calls move a mistake

updated 12:30 pm EST, Sat November 8, 2003

Apple makes PR mistake?

Roxio is that singled out the Napster service, while one analyst says that Apple's "mistake" lends unnecessary credibility to its competitor: "Roxio's Gorog questioned Apple's figures from Nielsen SoundScan, telling TechNewsWorld that those numbers did not include Napster's results. Gorog said Apple's claim of 80 percent market share is reduced to 62 percent if Napster's 23 percent is considered. Gorog, who also questioned how Apple could have had 1.5 million song downloads when SoundScan reported a total of 827,000 single downloads in the same period, said he does not know where Apple got the 1.5 million figure."

by MacNN Staff

(34)

TAGS :

industry

Share the Article

Facebook Twitter Delious Slash Dot Digg

toggle

Comments

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 01:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
HAHA

"he does not know where Apple got the 1.5 million figure."

Well, since they run the service, they might know how many songs are downloaded. Just a guess.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 01:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
Never trust an analyst...

My stockbroker also once told me not to invest in Apple, because they'd be out of business by the end of the year (this was 1996).

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 01:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Um ah...

According to those numbers Napster's sales are even WORSE then Apple reported they are.

Let's see: 827,000 * 23% = 190,210 (Apple claims 300,000 for Napster)

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 01:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Typical Apple

Apple ALWAYS lies about benchmark scores and market share.

The world lets Apple get away with it because Apple is so insignificant that nobody is harmed by their lies.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 01:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Typical Basher

Yeah, that explains how Virginia Tech built that phony Mac-cluster supercomputer that's 3-fastest in the world...

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 01:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
Um...

Apple doesn't lie . . . just stretches the truth or puts it in the best light possible . . . call it "marketing" . . . duh

Even if they were boldfaced lies, they don't hold a candle to the lies Microsoft tells . . or SCO . . . or CNET . . . . I will people like Gorog would get an education before they start pointing fingers . . .

The "old" Napster is dead . . The "new" Napster has NOTHING to do with the old Napster (except the logo). Gorog will do and say anything to retain as much brand equity as possible.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 01:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
If Apple is lying

If Apple is lying, which is not clear that they are, they are only doing what they haven't done for many years, but has cost them so much market share. In a world of highly competitive companies that ruthlessly seek out to eliminate their competition by whatever means they can so long as they don't go to jail it is necessary for a company to be willing to hit below the belt now and then. I can assure you that many, if not all PC companies would be just as quick to fudge data comparing them to their opponents if a suitable opportunity presented itself, and this is as I said assuming Apple has lied at all, without full disclosure of reporting methodologies, we have no idea how to tell who is telling the truth, and who is full of it, but I can tell you that since iTunes came out for the PC, I know of six people using it on Windows, and I haven't met one person yet who has even seen the new napster running.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 02:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
I took a ....

... how to lie with statistics course. Basically numbers can be manipulated in a lot of ways!!

Bottom line... iTunes is a more sustainable service if the bottom line is to sell hardware (iPods) as can't imagine how much it'd cost to launch a service like this and then with the 99Cents split up between profits to the recording industry and credit card (3%?) charges, it'd take a LONG time to recoup costs...

... but that's what's so amazing about this world ... look at Microsoft and it's XBOX .... Has sunk 2 Billion on it and is still losing money with each sale!

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 02:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Um ah...

> According to those numbers Napster's sales are even WORSE then
> Apple reported they are.
>
> Let's see: 827,000 * 23% = 190,210 (Apple claims 300,000 for
> Napster)

Well, let's do the correct calculation. Roxio claims that the 827,000 SoundScan reported did not include their sales. So we need to solve the following for x:

x / (827000 + x) = .23

And if you do so, x is about 247,000, which actually is still less than Apple's number, but much closer.

Viva Algebra!

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 03:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
I know...

Listen up, Gayrag. if I want your opinion I'll rattle my zipper. Otherwise, do the world a favor and STFU.

thank you

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 03:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
Singles vs. Songs

Apple reports to have sold 1.5 million songs, while the soundscan figures quoted by the Napster guy is "single downloads". But AFAIK (I live in Europe an do not have access to ITMS :-( ) Apple does also sell complete albums which is of course also included in the 1.5 million figure. So perhaps the Napster guy just misinterpreted the soundscan numbers to include all songs downloaded and not just singles.

Just my $ 0.02

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 04:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Everyone is lying

No one will ever know the truth, only when one goes under....

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 06:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
Press Release

CUPERTINO, California--November 6, 2003--Apple CEO Steve Jobs summed up the first week of competition between the company's iTunes Music Store and rival music download service Napster (owned by Roxio, Inc.) with the following statement: "Nanny nanny boo-boo, stick your head in doo-doo." Jobs followed the comment by sticking his thumbs in his ears, wiggling his fingers, and sticking out his tongue.

That's what the press release said to me--a little petty, I think.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 06:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
Lying

Marketers and sales people telling the truth? You have to be kidding. Silicon snake oil?

Frankly, I see too much investement going into this space. Lets see X billion dollar market 2*X billion invested. Leading to of course, many failed companies, initiatives, let down consumers and stock holders.

If there are to many of these services the consumer will get confused and turned off.

Still think applie is in the lead and they have windows engaged. People are not going to forget all those windows media folks troting around hollywood during the last bubble. Not this time.

Just my opinion..

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 07:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
/

What I don't get is where did SoundScan get THEIR figure from that pertains to iTMS downloads....if not from Apple itself??? How can they know exactly how many songs were downloaded????

I'm for the hypothesis that the 800+K figure is for "SINGLES" only and doesn't include ALBUM sales, which of course would have been included in the Apple figures. It does mean, however. that Apple probably made less than 1.5mil * 99c, since most albums at iTMS being sold for 9.99 probably has more than 10 songs (or else, users would download it as separate singles).

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 07:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
5th monkey

You have to give Steve Jobs credit for his sense of humor

Maybe Napster will go the same way BuyMusic.com went.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 07:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
New York Times

Maybe the NYT could hire some of those Roxio PR people. They don't know where Apple got the numbers - here is an idea Roxio -call Apple and ask. They won't because they don't want the truth. They can't handle the truth!

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 09:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Who cares?

Napster is only WINDOWS BASED, not even available on Macs.
What a stupid f****** article.

I just want more people to be offered on iTunes...and the books on audio are awesome!

Then again, when Napster offers a mac client, zingo-there-I-go!!! when iTunes doesn't have it.

-a good consumer

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/08, 09:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
Funniest Line

"Gorog, who also questioned how Apple could have had 1.5 million song downloads when SoundScan reported a total of 827,000 single downloads in the same period, said he does not know where Apple got the 1.5 million figure."

Funniest statement I heard in ages. HAHA... :-D

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 12:12am | report spam | close Reply |
Question!

I have a question. Where did Roxio get their figure of 300,000 sales if its not included in SoundScan's totals?

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 12:29am | report spam | close Reply |
re: Never trust analyst

And why would you? If these guys are so smart, why are they working for someone else? Why aren't they making a killing in the stock market from the confines of their own homes?

I've been trading full time for almost 7 years now and I've never based a buy or sell decision on what any analyst had to say and never will.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 12:54am | report spam | close Reply |
Apple runs the world.

They can fabricate any number they want. Apple had a super-ka-jillion sales today. Big whoopie.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 05:35am | report spam | close Reply |
Where 1,500,000 come from

or why Apple and Roxio are both correct.

Apple was comparing the first week of the iTMS (they sold 1,500,00 songs this first week) to the first week of the Roxio store. Because you can only compare what can be compared.

Now Roxio is right in stating that the 1,500,00 figure is not the one of last week. But it looks like they did not understand what the comparison was made with. A bit lame...

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 09:01am | report spam | close Reply |
Re:Where 1,500,000 come..

"Apple was comparing the first week of the iTMS (they sold 1,500,00 songs this first week) to the first week of the Roxio store."

You are mistaken. iTMS sold 1,000,000 songs their first week of operating. The 1.5mil compares to the same week as Napsters' first week. As to where they got the numbers, other posts are saying Apple is counting the songs from album downloads. That sounds logical to me.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 10:40am | report spam | close Reply |
Napster is irrelivent

No one cares about Napster anymore. I've got PC buddies who could care less. Despite being run by "Mac," they all love the selection and exclusive tracks offered by the iTMS.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 05:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
Napster is DOA

One of the problems Roxio is facing is that it doesn't have the capacity to provide music to its customers; it merely provides the DRM and searching features to find music from its other customers.

You see, Napster customers are unwitting servers of music on their own computer to other Napster customers. You can't get a guarantee that the file you're downloading via Napster (that you paid $0.99 for) doesn't come with a virus, or is complete, or doesn't have static interspersed with the music because you're getting the download from another Napster customer, not a centrallized Roxio server.

No wonder Napster is so keen to sign up Penn State students to its service. A cluster of student-owned computers connected to a fast university network is a powerful base from which to serve content. Too bad Penn State students get nothing out of it and in fact pay for the privilege of supply Napster with servers by volunteering their own personal computers.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 05:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Soundscan facts

THe numbers for Soundscan come from users who have volunteered to be included in the research. It is the same as the Neilsen ratings. it is a sample of opt-in users... that is all.
The numbers being touted by Roxio and Apple are from their own servers. not the Soundscan data. That will only be a small part of either number.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 06:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Sick of macnn and these

f****** stupid articles.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 09:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
Where did they get the #s

Whatever!

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 11:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
typical angle...

You must be the same moron, pc d*** head who always has s*** to say. Why don't you stay in the pc forums, you miserable C--sucker.

Why don't you go and stick your little prick in the floppy drive.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/09, 11:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
mmm

i wanna suck it...

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/10, 02:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
lies by apple

'Fastest Computer' TV Advert Banned

By PA News Reporter

Computer giant Apple has been banned by advertising watchdogs from claiming its latest product is �the world�s fastest, most powerful personal computer�.

The claim was made in a television advert for the Apple PowerMac G5.

But the Independent Television Commission branded the advert �misleading� and banned it from being broadcast.

Eight viewers contacted the ITC to complain that the claim was based on the results of limited tests in which the specification of the computers used was configured to give Apple the best results.
ple said the tests, carried out by an independent third party, were �fair and even�.

But the ITC found that the claim was not supported by independent reviews and that, at best, the G5 was only �generally as fast� as its competitors.

In its advertising complaints report, it ruled: �The ITC considered that there was insufficient evidence to support the claim �world�s fastest, most powerful personal computer�.

�Furthermore, it shared one viewer�s doubt that the claim could be substantiated at all because, as evidence for and against the claim had shown, computers were constantly being updated and had many different applications and benchmarks.�

It concluded that �the advertising was misleading and ... should not be re-shown in its current form�.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/11, 10:32am | report spam | close Reply |
Apple sells albums too

SoundsScan report tells how many singles were sold, but not the total number of tracks. Apple sells albums too and counts each track towards the total number of tracks sold.

The analyst needs to pay a little more attention to what he's analyzing.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/15, 02:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ban all toy commercials

as well.

Those things don't talk, walk, fly, shoot, or do anything those damned commericals show them doing!

What about cereal commercials?
Snap Crackle Pop my a**....
Keebler cookie elves?

I could go on, but I'd rather say, all MFR' commercials say their product is the BEST, FASTEST, etc.

England is g**

Show More Comments

Login Here

toggle

Network Headlines

05/16	Reuters sources support claims of 4...
05/16	Flipboard 1.9 brings Audio category...
05/16	China Mobile still in talks for iPhone...
05/16	WSJ says Apple has ordered 4-inch displays...
05/16	Samsung and HTC stock nosedive, both...

Show All

05/16	Reuters sources support claims of 4...
05/16	China Mobile still in talks for iPhone...
05/16	WSJ says Apple has ordered 4-inch displays...
05/16	Samsung and HTC stock nosedive, both...
05/15	Retina update also coming to MacBook...

Show All

05/16	Flipboard 1.9 brings Audio category...
05/14	Apple to announce iCloud photo sharing...
05/14	Sparrow 1.2 adds landscape mode, label...
05/14	redsn0w update lets users downgrade...
05/11	iCloud beta site shows new apps; Apple...

Show All

03/02	Save $330 on refurb. 15.4-inch, 2.4GHz...
03/01	Pre-owned 8GB iPod touch 2G, drops...
02/29	$150 off Nikon Coolpix S80 Compact...
02/28	Plantronics BackBeat 903 Bluetooth...
02/27	Refurb. Seagate 1.5TB GoFlex Portable...

Show All

toggle

Apple numbers questioned; analyst calls move a mistake

updated 12:30 pm EST, Sat November 8, 2003

Apple makes PR mistake?

Related Articles

Recent Articles

HAHA

Never trust an analyst...

Um ah...

Typical Apple

Typical Basher

Um...

If Apple is lying

I took a ....

Re: Um ah...

I know...

Singles vs. Songs

Everyone is lying

Press Release

Lying

/

5th monkey

New York Times

Who cares?

Funniest Line

Question!

re: Never trust analyst

Apple runs the world.

Where 1,500,000 come from

Re:Where 1,500,000 come..

Napster is irrelivent

Napster is DOA

Soundscan facts

Sick of macnn and these

Where did they get the #s

typical angle...

mmm

lies by apple

Apple sells albums too

Ban all toy commercials

Login Here

Register for our weekly email newsletter:

Connect tools:

Subscribe

to our RSS

Follow us

on Twitter

10 Most Read

10 Most Discussed

MacNN Marketplace